Jean Klein - non-duality teacher?

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intheword
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Jean Klein - non-duality teacher?

Post by intheword » Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:19 am

I kinda stumbled across this guy a few weeks ago. I'm reading his book called "I Am." Very powerful. Kinda confusing for me, but amazing. Anybody read this? It seems lots of his principles are very close to Tolle.

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Re: Jean Klein - non-duality teacher?

Post by weopposedeception » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:29 am

I read that book several months ago and enjoyed it.

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Re: Jean Klein - non-duality teacher?

Post by HermitLoon » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:39 pm

Peace

intheword
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Re: Jean Klein - non-duality teacher?

Post by intheword » Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:30 pm

This guy is profound ... and kinda tough to read.

I like his depth but there is not much order or structure to his writings, which makes it difficult for me to understand.

Does anyone know of other non-duality teachers that are deep but a bit easier to follow?

Craig
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Re: Jean Klein - non-duality teacher?

Post by Craig » Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:56 pm

I just finished reading Living Truth by Jean Klein recently. It's a question and answer based format based upon several talks that Jean gave at spiritual retreats. It's fairly good, but a lot of the questions and the discussion end up being about things that are secondary to awakening, such as body work in yoga, and the like. The best sections are at the start and the back of the book. There's one particularly outstanding dialogue that clarifies what is meant in Advaita about objects not actually existing.

The teachings of individuals from the Advaita tradition can sometimes be tough to follow. It's often the case that the mind ends up puzzling over the meaning of statements like "There is no teacher- there is no teaching" and "The notion of doership is bondage", etc. You might also try Ramana Maharshi or Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj for a similar, but not identical, teaching style.
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Re: Jean Klein - non-duality teacher?

Post by Craig » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:00 am

Here's a couple of teachings from Klein that I like, particularly the second:

"All technique aims to still the mind. But in fact it dulls the mind to fix it on an object. The mind loses its natural alertness and subtleness. It is no longer an open mind...Meditation belongs to the unknowable...The point of sitting in meditation is only to find the meditator. The more you look, the more you will be convinced that he cannot be found...Fundamentally, you are nothing, but you are not aware of this and project energy in seeking what you are...When, by self-inquiry, you find out that the meditator does not exist, all activity becomes pointless and you come to a state of non-attaining, an openness to the unknowable."

You are primal awareness. Life is only primal awarenss. Between two thoughts or two perceptions you are. You know moments in your life when a thought completely disappears into silence, but still you are." (The Ease of Being, 13) [Emphasis mine].

http://www.nonduality.com/klein.htm
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weopposedeception
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Re: Jean Klein - non-duality teacher?

Post by weopposedeception » Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:38 am

Intheword, I would recommend "Nothing Personal" by Nirmala.

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Re: Jean Klein - non-duality teacher?

Post by Sighclone » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:28 pm

The leap from a deeply meditative state to "no self" is far shorter than from a busy egoic life, in my opinion.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Jean Klein - non-duality teacher?

Post by Craig » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:15 am

Sighclone wrote:The leap from a deeply meditative state to "no self" is far shorter than from a busy egoic life, in my opinion.

Andy
I think it can be Andy, but it depends. My experience is that any time I've tried to meditate, it feels like I'm trying to control something or do something. Even following Adya's advice on True Meditation, I still found there was a subtle sense of manipulating in the act of just trying to sit there and not do anything to manipulate, if that makes sense. And I think that's what Jean Klein is getting at in the quote- meditation is better served by trying to locate the meditator, rather than trying to meditate.
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Re: Jean Klein - non-duality teacher?

Post by Sighclone » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:50 pm

Meditation is like brushing your teeth. Of course there is an action you take. Either you are in a conversation or you are meditating, either you are reading a book or you are meditating, either you are taking out the trash or you are meditating, etc. Meditation is a decision to "do" something. To.....meditate.

The techniques vary widely. But one thing they have in common is that they are "meditation techniques." So if you use the word 'manipulating' to mean you are doing something consciously, that's ok. You are meditating.

The purpose of clean teeth is to be able to eat well and live long. The purpose of meditating is to prepare the mind to step aside. So long as it is the boss, grinding away with thoughts and feelings and memories and habits, there will be no awakening, but meditation does not cause enlightenment. However, judging the activities in meditation as 'manipulating' (or any other label) is a thought-event to be ignored.

The process of inquiry is cognitive, whether it is "Who am I?", "Where am I?" "Who is meditating?", etc. It is a fine spiritual practice, and "cognitive" takes on a much deeper meaning in the process. But it is separate from meditating.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Jean Klein - non-duality teacher?

Post by Craig » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:49 am

Sighclone wrote:
The process of inquiry is cognitive, whether it is "Who am I?", "Where am I?" "Who is meditating?", etc. It is a fine spiritual practice, and "cognitive" takes on a much deeper meaning in the process. But it is separate from meditating.

Andy
Maybe I'm just splitting hairs, but Ramana Maharshi advises that the investigation of "Who Am I?" should not be intellectual in nature. I understand it as not being cognitive in nature. Indeed, I've found that when looking for or investigating into this ego or seperate self, any thoughts passing through my head like "Oh, that was just a thought- but you are not your thoughts" and so forth didn't seem to be helpful. I don't mean to imply that there was something wrong with them, but they certainly didn't bring about any realization or awakening.
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Re: Jean Klein - non-duality teacher?

Post by karmarider » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:39 pm

Craig wrote:
Sighclone wrote: Maybe I'm just splitting hairs, but Ramana Maharshi advises that the investigation of "Who Am I?" should not be intellectual in nature.
In early translations from Tamil to English, the "Who Am I" was erroneously presented as an inquiry. Ramana Mahirishi never meant it as a cognitive inquiry.

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Re: Jean Klein - non-duality teacher?

Post by karmarider » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:48 pm

Sighclone wrote:Meditation is like brushing your teeth...
In my experience, the sit-down, close-my-eyes meditation practice creates a division between the times I'm meditating and the times I'm not. For me, remaining present or aware in daily living is more effective.

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Re: Jean Klein - non-duality teacher?

Post by Glycine » Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:26 pm

karmarider wrote:In my experience, the sit-down, close-my-eyes meditation practice creates a division between the times I'm meditating and the times I'm not. For me, remaining present or aware in daily living is more effective.
This sounds so truthful! Thank you, Karmarider!

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Re: Jean Klein - non-duality teacher?

Post by Sighclone » Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:27 pm

In his recent fine book, "Happiness Beyond Thought," Gary Weber, PhD, transliterates sections of Ramana's Updesa Saram (The Essence of the Teachings). These English passages are Weber's, from the Sanskrit (Ramana's), from the Telegu, from the original Tamil (by Ramana, of course.)

Re meditation, Ramana said (text 7) "Unbroken meditation, like water flowing in a stream or oil pouring is the most effective." I certainly agree. My comments, however were to start the dripping and not judge it. The flow can follow. :)

Slowing, controlling the breath or even counting exhales serves to still the mind. From text 12: "Mind and Breath, consciousness and action, are joined like two branches on a tree, both with the same root..."

Re inquiry (text 19): "See where the I comes from and it will disappear." The Sanskrit root is nijavicaaranan (self-inquiry.) I believe seeking the "I" is the direction of attention Ramana indicates...is that cognitive?...maybe we are stuck in semantics.

At any rate, text 30 has been translated as "Surrendering the "I" is the greatest spiritual practice and leads to Self-Realization - this is Ramana's teaching."

Ramana also helped us to measure our progress; in response to a question about this, he said: "The degree of freedom from unwanted thoughts and the degree of concentration on a single thought are the measures to gauge one's progress." (Weber, p. 7).


Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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