Adyashanti's view of ego, a bit different.

I just love Adya and I think he deserves his own forum.

Re: Adyashanti's view of ego, a bit different.

Postby kiki » Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:08 pm

but does that mean you cant intent to be richer, look better etc etc,

Sure, go ahead and do that. That's part of the play. But don't do so under the delusion that achieving those intentions will bring a sense of fulfillment, that they will "complete" you in some way. You are already complete - see this and then "play" all you want.

Edited to add: It is doing those things as a way of maintaining a sense of identify that they become problematic.
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Re: Adyashanti's view of ego, a bit different.

Postby wjon » Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:37 am

one of my biggest questions still is, is this realising you are perfect, has it included that you can manifest, or is it without this knowledgge, its something i cant understand yet... like be happy because you are evrything and have everything allready, like you are potential for 100 percent, or is it being without potential that makes you happy.... this is very difficult for me... is the nothing dynamic and creative or is it nothing
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Re: Adyashanti's view of ego, a bit different.

Postby kiki » Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:12 am

one of my biggest questions still is, is this realising you are perfect, has it included that you can manifest, or is it without this knowledgge, its something i cant understand yet...

I don't think there is any hard and fast rule to this. Being "perfection itself" doesn't necessarily mean that you, while in form, will easily manifest whatever you put attention on. It could happen, and then again it may not. But to the awakened one it wouldn't really matter one way or the other. I feel, however, that it would be more easily accomplished when awake. To the one who is awake the drive to manifest is largely absent because there is no perceived need to be met - whatever is is fine just as it is.

like you are potential for 100 percent, or is it being without potential that makes you happy.... this is very difficult for me... is the nothing dynamic and creative or is it nothing


Source is potential for anything, and therefore is inherently creative and dynamic. How could it not be? Literally everything you see, imagine, or could imagine arises out of source. Your essence is not separate from source, therefore you carry with you the potential to do amazing things. But "happiness" on the level of form, as human, comes from realizing that you don't have to do anything at all. Being awake to your true nature puts you into contact with unconditional happiness.

Do you see now? By being unaware of your true essence the drive to find happiness carries with it the seed of sorrow and suffering when conditional happiness inevitably leaves you feeling that something is lacking again, even after manifesting something. But by being aware of your true nature you have discovered the inherent unconditional happiness that exists only there. Nothing in form can be added to make you complete. Oh sure, being good at manifesting can make you more comfortable in many ways but those things won't bring unconditional peace and happiness. They will satisfy you on one level until something else is deemed to be important enough to manifest. And then the cycle will continue to repeat itself until, hopefully, you awaken to your true nature and discover that you are already complete and whole. Then you can manifest or not and still be happy.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: Adyashanti's view of ego, a bit different.

Postby wjon » Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:22 am

well, ill be honnest, i have a kyphosis, my spinal is not straight and i want to get rid of it, after realeasing everythign its still there ,
i would want to manifest health, and i try to accept the state i have...
but i feel lot of emotions of wanting...

then i have a dream, maybe my biggest dream but it doesnt feel like i need it to be happy, its just there in the future, and it feels okay with or without, i know it will not make me happy, but i would like it...but if its not that then its something else...

the difference is quit big... like the biggest dream feels natural, the healing feels i want i want
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Re: Adyashanti's view of ego, a bit different.

Postby wjon » Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:25 am

oh , and yes i still wonder about what you say, if you are in the present you dont want other things, this together with the creative aspect of nothing, the 'I AM', is soemthing i cant understand, i would say 'I AM' creative, lets decide to have this next thing which will not make me happy but the potential of me choosing it, the potential which is I AM makes me happy... and im not dead yet so why would i want to be awake and do nothing when everything i am is being everything and experiencing everything, ofcourse i wan to experience more, its just this potential that makes me I AM no ???
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Re: Adyashanti's view of ego, a bit different.

Postby kiki » Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:07 am

Let me address your physical situation first. Explore the various healing modalities that are available besides the traditional ones. Include things like accupuncture, reiki, and qigong. These are concerned with removing energy blockages so that the body can regain a state of health and vitality. I personally recommend something called Spring Forest Qigong, a series of simple movements, breathing, visualization, and meditation. It dovetails nicely with awakening.

As for understanding everything, let that arise out of being present. You can't force it no matter how hard you try. In fact, trying makes it that much more difficult. Become present and then just observe what unfolds, and let insight and understanding arise on their own. They have their own timetable for arising so leave expectation out of the whole process.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: Adyashanti's view of ego, a bit different.

Postby dubhasa » Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:51 pm

kiki wrote:Become present and then just observe what unfolds, and let insight and understanding arise on their own. They have their own timetable for arising so leave expectation out of the whole process.


I needed to hear this.

Thanks Kiki for your patience, understanding and hard work of explaining these seemingly simple but difficult to comprehend issues.
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Re: Adyashanti's view of ego, a bit different.

Postby OnlyNow » Sun Aug 17, 2008 1:38 pm

from my perspective ET could be summed up as thus I have found

Adya is more towards this is how it is
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Re: Adyashanti's view of ego, a bit different.

Postby James » Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:00 pm

My view is that ET and Adya are talking about the same thing in regards to Ego, just from different vantage points or perspectives, depending on the occasion. My sense is that Adya acknowledges ego, since he certainly talks a lot about it, however the point he makes about it not existing, is from the absolute perspective; that there is only One. Paradoxically, ego appears to exist, yet it does not really exist. Nothing can be outside of the Oneness. This is a view held my other non dual teachings. Ego is simply seen as a "collection of thoughts". That is how ET presents it too, except he tends to illustrate ego in ways that it appears to be an entity. I think that is simply his teaching style, to make a point and get one's attention. Those that are most identified with egoic sense may need it presented in that way, since it is made into an identity (which seems like a noun), although it is a false identity/non-entity. :?

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Re: Adyashanti's view of ego, a bit different.

Postby OnlyNow » Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:47 pm

Since the only way to know that ego does not exist is to be enlightened or fully present; that it exists would seem the norm for the large majority of the population.

To talk of the ego not existing belies it seems to me the status quo of the human population.

It may be that until you can become a fully realised being the ego is probably best approached as an entity.

ET does this I feel whereas Ayda seems to perceive largely from another region which few of us have experienced.

As for those that are most identified with the egoic sense made need it presented that way would again be the vast majority of the population.

Perhaps Adya is better teaching those who already know
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Re: Adyashanti's view of ego, a bit different.

Postby James » Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:19 pm

As long as there is a human form, there will be some degree of egoic sense. Even an awakened person has an individual reference point, personality traits, memories etc; most of which is needed to operate in the world of form. Yet this individual reference point is part of the totality. It is only when we believe otherwise that we are under an illusory spell, and mentally cut off from source. This is usually what spiritual teachers are referring to when they say "ego", the sense of separation from source; yet there are variations of the word's use. Words are often a slippery slope when it comes to expressing truth, they are always limiting. Only in the experience itself, is truth revealed; and then words don't do it justice.

James
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Re: Adyashanti's view of ego, a bit different.

Postby HermitLoon » Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:43 pm

Amen James. :)
"Enlightenment", rather than being a replacement for the Human Experience (Ego, etc.), is an expanded awareness - an all inclusive experience of "being".
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Re: Adyashanti's view of ego, a bit different.

Postby OnlyNow » Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:13 pm

Words are often a slippery slope when it comes to expressing truth, they are always limiting. Only in the experience itself, is truth revealed; and then words don't do it justice.

Absolutely, as et suggests, best they can do is point

add to that, the written word as opposed to the spoken inherits the lack of tone and body language to help its intended context.

"Enlightenment", rather than being a replacement for the Human Experience (Ego, etc.), is an expanded awareness - an all inclusive experience of "being".

Absolutely, though I was not suggesting that, merely that one would need an expanded awareness to realise that ego was illusory :wink:
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Re: Adyashanti's view of ego, a bit different.

Postby Sighclone » Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:33 am

Some ramblings on this topic...

I think a seeker could imagine the concept of an "egoless" identity without the experience of Unity Consciousness. But since enlightenement is "your natural state of felt oneness with Being" (PON p. 12), an otherwise unencumbered reader, one not confined by religious dogma, could begin some meditation practices, and the other portals that Eckhart recommends and begin to experience Stillness and Presence.

Adya is quite firm about there being "no self." Let me suggest, however, that such a concept does not mean one has no identity after awakening. If, after awakening one can say "I am that," (Nisargadatta Maharaj) or "I am the present moment." (ET), cannot one also say "Bob is part of who I am?" Others look at me in form and see Bob. They have known Bob for many years. Bob still walks and talks, in form as "Bob." But Bob himself knows that he is larger than what he felt "old Bob" was. Infinitely larger...

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Adyashanti's view of ego, a bit different.

Postby James » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:24 am

Good points Andy

<Adya is quite firm about there being "no self."> Yet he talks a lot about his own personal background. This is one of those paradoxes again. You can hear other statements like: "There is only one Self" "there is no doership", "no one gets enlightened" "it is all an illusion". These can be both true and not true at the same time.

Funny story: Papaji is talking to a woman in satsang. She is upset because she is struggling with this idea that she is an illusion. Papaji says: "if you are an illusion, then who is talking to me?.... Is illusion talking to illusion?... How is that possible?"... The woman replies: "it's not possible". Papaji smiles and says: "then keep quiet" :lol:

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