Meditation Changes?

I just love Adya and I think he deserves his own forum.

Meditation Changes?

Postby Juno » Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:07 pm

I've been a little busy lately. In my mind that is. I sense Presence through out the day but before I know it I'm lost in thought again. I know it's all fine. It's just what's happening Now. Meditation for a couple of months have been odd. I've always enjoyed meditation but it seems since I experienced Source during meditation where it was as if only Presence was there and my body dissapeared I've been a little scared I might go there again. I think I'm distracting myself during meditation because the little me is scared of pure Source/Void. There is something in me that wants to experience it again but I'm scared of it too. I'm scared of complete unknown! This post is turning into something I didn't intend. I was poking around looking for suggestions on meditation after awakening. I've only listened to True Meditation once since awakening in April. I listened right away months ago. I listened today and had a complete different experience of it than I've ever had. A real new appreciation for it. This post was supposed to be a plug for Adya but.... Presence had something else planned. I would suggest to "me" just rest as What I am and continuing to Allow, let what comes come and what goes go : ) Any experiences of your own of having fears develop regarding meditation after awakening or experiences after experiencing the void that might pertain to the fear?

Monica
by thinking of something you create an entity and by thinking of nothing you create another. Let such erroneous thinking perish utterly, and then nothing will remain for you to go seeking!
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Re: Meditation Changes?

Postby Onceler » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:17 am

Monica,

There is an audio interview with Adya in "Conversations With the Masters"-- you can download it on Itunes. It is amazing. He talks about the place you seem to be right now; the fear and the need to accept all that. I have never had an awakening moment, but I have gone to the edge of my ego and I know the terror of letting go. In some ways Adya is not comforting, but he tells the truth as he sees it....it sounds like you know what to do; don't try to control your experience and accept what is as it unfolds.
Be present, be pleasant.
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Re: Meditation Changes?

Postby Juno » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:32 am

Thank You Onceler,

I actually have that podcast. I'll listen to it again. I was just listening to Catherine Ingram suggested by erict. I've only heard a little bit but she took me right to deep inner Stillness and it was very comforting and I wasen't worried about experiencing what I was worried about so that was perfect. Thanks again for the reminder of the podcast....

Monica
by thinking of something you create an entity and by thinking of nothing you create another. Let such erroneous thinking perish utterly, and then nothing will remain for you to go seeking!
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Re: Meditation Changes?

Postby inseglet » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:03 am

hi Juno,
I experienced the same fear.. :?
*taking note of that interview*
thanks Onceler!
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Re: Meditation Changes?

Postby randomguy » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:56 pm

Fear? That's one signal that you are reaching the present.

Tolle says to "walk through the fear".

From my experience at least, passing through the fear (or other residual feelings) is how we transmute trapped, conditioned mind-body tensions into positive life energy. I trust Adya's guided meditation instructions completely.

Some things I have said to myself to help pass through the fear in my own meditation:

Can I relinquish control further?
Do I need these defenses?
What if I give this fear to my heart's will?

There can be very scary waves of panicky fear. My breath can change for a short time.
Let the fear be; allow it to live in the present if it can. It is a small death of sorts of a pattern that our body-mind has developed to protect and serve us well.
Bye bye fear, thank you for all you did.
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Re: Meditation Changes?

Postby Juno » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:58 am

Hey Random Guy, Thank you for your post. I hope to remember some of the things you said when and if the experience comes again. What I experienced in meditation was so vast and it literally felt like my body dissapeared. When I realized that it scared me. I grasped to come back and it felt like something had to shift to let me come back. I was experiencing only Presence looking through my eyes. I heard a thought when I realized the me had dropped away so drastically. I heard my voice say oh my God. The sound of the thought was very distant. It was so strange. Way in the background. It was a very poignant experience and helped me to understand that much more what I ultimately am. I heard Eckhart talk about this recently. He was saying how these experiences of the void are valuable to deepen our understanding. I think if it happens again I will be able to go with it maybe a little more. True Meditation and Catherine Ingram have helped me relax again with meditation. I'm not thinking about that experience as much. I think what I experienced may be called samadhi but I'm not 100% sure.

Thanks again,
Monica
by thinking of something you create an entity and by thinking of nothing you create another. Let such erroneous thinking perish utterly, and then nothing will remain for you to go seeking!
Huang Po
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Re: Meditation Changes?

Postby randomguy » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:37 am

Hey Monica,

Regarding meditation, Adya talks about the boundary of the body blurring away. Would your experience be like that or something different?

I listened to that interview mentioned again. About 24 min or so into it, he talked about a part of his awakening process where he experienced a fear of not existing or not surviving the truth. Is this the sort of fear that you are experiencing? He also said this type of fear is common, and also used the term "existential terror".

I could be wrong of course, but I would say that you reached a very safe state of present awareness. My sideline spectator guess is that if you were in that space a bit longer, awareness may eventually have drifted focus back to your inner body. I have never heard any of these experienced teachers say that you can surrender too much. On the contrary, there seems to be more and more levels of awareness to surrender to.

(But I may not have experienced anything similar to what you have experienced. Perhaps it was a start of an out of body experience, or something else which I know nothing about.)

Whatever it is, it sounds wonderfully adventurous.
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Re: Meditation Changes?

Postby Onceler » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:49 am

That is my experience, that there are deeper levels of surrendering. I feel like I have been "falling through" fear in my meditation. It is like I viscerally fall through a ring of fear and "land" peacefully.

As I recall from the interview, Adya literally thought he was going to die and surrendered to that thought/belief, "Okay".

It's as if there are layers upon layers. The letting-everything-be-as-it-is, practice seems endless and ever deepening. I have experienced the blurring to a limited extent and usuall pull back at some point as you suggest, Randomguy. It is an adventure.....
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Re: Meditation Changes?

Postby E1lycat » Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:07 am

Hi Monica, I had a similar experience with my body disappearing. :lol:

I was walking along the beach one day, and was feeling a vast emptiness and space inside me. I felt like the only thing separating me from the wind was just my skin, and if my skin disappeared, the wind would blow right through me. And I thought, hang on 'If my inner body is just space, then my skin would be space too', and I felt my skin disappear, and all of a sudden I had no body.. But I still had a head. So i made that into space too, and all of a sudden it felt like I was looking out of a pair of floating eyeballs. :lol: It was extremely disorienting, (it happened in the very early stages of awakening) and I stopped straight away and made my body come back. It scared me too, and I haven't tried it again since.

I don't know what this emptiness and space inside me is. It's deeper that my 'inner body feeling', and most of the time I can't feel my inner body because I can only feel the space. But I just like to play around in it, put my attention there, and just sit in it for awhile.. once or twice I've felt a merging of my consciousness with something else, and I felt more awake and alert. But I've just decided to let it be. And yes, I've felt fearful during meditation sometimes, and more than once I've had major panic attacks and have had to stop meditating :lol:

But I think adya says (and not quoting exactly, just from memory) 'Afraid of your own natural state! What could be more madness than that?' And I think one of the members in this forum here said (I think it was moonmissy, and again from memory), 'fear is great because I know that just on the other side of it is peace'.


Lotsa love, :lol:
E1lycat
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Re: Meditation Changes?

Postby Juno » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:35 pm

Thanks for the post E1lycat!

Well I knew I wasen't the only one but it's nice to have someone on this forum say such crazy things :lol:

Describing that you were only like a pair of eyeballs hit the nail on the head. When I described it to my best friend I put my hands up circling my eyes with my fingers trying to emphasize, it felt like I was only eyeballs lol! Thank God she's use to me.

It is definetly much deeper than our inner body as you said because it is as you said our natural state which is just the most bizarre thing ever to experience. Maybe the inner body is just another word for our natural state that makes up this body. A pointer. They are the same thing becasue ultimately it is all one but I know exactly what you mean that it feels much deeper. It felt like what I was seeing was the source of everything yet it was pure emptiness. After the first awakening experience where I could sense what I am in everything I was still seeking something. Once that experience of dissapearing happened and I got a good tast of our True Nature then that unease stopped. Now it just feels like a continuing of the me falling away and lots of interest in our True Nature. It's like finding something new, lot's of interest and passion for It. It becomes the priority in life. Has it with you since you awoke? Has it just been your whole focus even though you may have something important going on, It is always right there? I have a question for you. When you had that experience of disappearing and you felt you were only eyeballs would you descibe it as not having an identity in that moment? Like the me really fell away? Even for a second or two. There is something there because something is looking. Web Wanderer described it as Presence looking. WW if you read this could you say it in your way? I see where there has to be something looking at the vastness that we are cause it can't look at itself hence the eyeballs. How paradoxical. That's got to be the first paradox created :D What do you think about what's looking? Since it creates these bodies to experience Itself then maybe the "eyeball sensation" is just the very last or first of creating something that can experience It. Isn't that interesting because the eyes are the supposed windows to the soul :)

Monica
by thinking of something you create an entity and by thinking of nothing you create another. Let such erroneous thinking perish utterly, and then nothing will remain for you to go seeking!
Huang Po
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Re: Meditation Changes?

Postby HermitLoon » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:34 pm

There is Pure Awareness.
"We" are "that"(this). :D
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Re: Meditation Changes?

Postby E1lycat » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:59 pm

Hi Monica! :D :D

It's like finding something new, lot's of interest and passion for It. It becomes the priority in life. Has it with you since you awoke? Has it just been your whole focus even though you may have something important going on, It is always right there?


Yes, it is my primary focus, definitely, because truthfully, the driving force behind all this is not really the newness and amazing-ness of it. It's just that I don't want to be me anymore. The E1lycat before all this was extremely self-destructive, who inflicted lots of emotional and physical pain on herself. And if it weren't for my first experience of tremendous love and peace, I might have off-ed myself. And that first experience was really an experience! It felt like God was looking at the world through my eyes. So, suffering has brought me here, and the idea of the end of suffering (and awareness of that first experience) is what keeps me driven. Going back would be unbearable. I guess what I'm saying is, I don't really have much of a choice in the matter, either go forward or go back towards certain death/destruction. But I think it's been said, our beings are geared to wake up, so once started, there are only delays, but no turning back :D :D

When you had that experience of disappearing and you felt you were only eyeballs would you descibe it as not having an identity in that moment? Like the me really fell away? Even for a second or two. There is something there because something is looking.


Heh, it's hard to describe.. words are so limiting. But it felt like I was nothing, and yet nothing-ness was looking out of my bouncing eyeballs in a very awake way. :lol:

I don't really have answers to the rest of the questions in your post. Heck I don't have answers to many things! But HermitLoon has probably given the best pointer, so thank you HermitLoon!

Lotsa love,
E1lycat
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Re: Meditation Changes?

Postby Juno » Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:14 pm

Yeah I don't think we would have a clue if we didn't already know what we are and what we experienced was Source no matter what. That's what put me at ease actually experiencing what I am without a me. :D I'll probably write more later E1lycat. I have to get back to work.

Thanks for the reply HL

Monica
by thinking of something you create an entity and by thinking of nothing you create another. Let such erroneous thinking perish utterly, and then nothing will remain for you to go seeking!
Huang Po
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Re: Meditation Changes?

Postby moonmissy » Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:37 am


But I think adya says (and not quoting exactly, just from memory) 'Afraid of your own natural state! What could be more madness than that?' And I think one of the members in this forum here said (I think it was moonmissy, and again from memory), 'fear is great because I know that just on the other side of it is peace'.


Thanks for quoting me so accurately :D
Very few spiritual teachers talk about fear and the expansion of awareness into the void.
For four years or so, I confronted fear again and again in my surrender. Eckhart Tolle calls this conscious death. As a Buddhist, I can say that it is the doorway into the first Jhana or Samadhi state. Surrendering to that fearful feeling is probably the best thing that happened to me. Fear is experienced because of the decrease in identification with thoughts. Letting go of personal identity can be a very fearful experience as well as the most rewarding. Fear is the ego's guard against ultimate reality. When we identify with thoughts, we feel fear and interpret the label of it as such. Don't label your experience, just allow it to be. Let go and allow yourself to fall into the void. It is an awesome freedom. Eventually, the fear will disappear and the only thing left is emptiness.

Fear is the last line of defense of your ego. When you identify with it, you will react to it. You will witness your thoughts going wild with all kinds of suggestions to react. Allow it to be and trust in the power of surrender. The other side of fear is total peace and liberation. Accept fear and end all suffering. You are infinitely so much more than the little story of your life, the body and your thoughts. Let it be, surrender to it and find out who you truly are.
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Re: Meditation Changes?

Postby Sighclone » Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:28 pm

moonmissy - what a delight it is to have you in the forum. In 2001 I attended a "self-help" seminar for four days. It was excellent, although mostly and expressly non-spiritual, it nevertheless brought many spiritual, metaphysical insights to me and others. 12 hours per day of lectures, small-group sessions, one-on-ones, other exercises put a big toll on the ego and energy. But it was terrifying because "little me" was falling away. I was afraid to let go, to surrender. As a final part of my session, I composed a personal statement which began with "I am eternally safe at home..." I needed this affirmation because at the time I did not really believe it.

Reading your post has been very very helpful to me because it places that old experience in context better than my other reading has, including Eckhart's work.

Thanks again,

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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