What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

I just love Adya and I think he deserves his own forum.

What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby steve247 » Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:07 pm

What is Adyashanti's view on free will? Does anyone know? Do we have it?
steve247
 
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:54 am

Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby erict » Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:55 pm

I remember this one talk where he was saying (I think it was specifically about free will) that to one person he might say that there is no free will, while to another he would say that there definitely is, and it really all depends on where the person is and what might help him move forward.
"Be sincere; don't ask questions out of mere interest. Ask dangerous questions—the ones whose answers could change your life."
User avatar
erict
Site-Admin
Site-Admin
 
Posts: 1776
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:24 pm
Location: Israel

Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby steve247 » Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:16 pm

I'd love to hear that talk. Any idea where exactly you heard it?

It leads me to believe that his views are that there is no free-will and says otherwise to some people because it could become a massive hindrance with them wrongly interpreting it as a passive existence.

I found this quote:

http://tomstine.com/all-thinking-is-con ... dyashanti/
steve247
 
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:54 am

Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby erict » Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:42 pm

I have no idea which talk it was from, I've heard so many.

It's interesting and amusing how it leads you to believe something, when it was completely neutral. :) Actually, I remember him explaining further that free will (like a lot of things) isn't really an either-or kind of thing. Within duality, it is relative, but otherwise it's both. Something like that. :)

I'm also starting to remember that he was saying that the belief doesn't matter much anyway. If you experience that there is no free will, then go with that, while if you experience that there is, then that's what you've got. What will the belief change anyway?

Perhaps someone here would be able to help you more, if you explain the context within which this question came up for you.
"Be sincere; don't ask questions out of mere interest. Ask dangerous questions—the ones whose answers could change your life."
User avatar
erict
Site-Admin
Site-Admin
 
Posts: 1776
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:24 pm
Location: Israel

Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby steve247 » Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:23 pm

I know, my mind trying to figure things out and reading into what people say, reading between the lines :roll: :D

It's a confusing thing free-will because I can't see how we can have it. Either we make decisions based on conditioning or we don't decide at all, but the one consciousness does. I kind of don't want there to be free-will because then any bad decisions I make I don't have to feel responsible for :mrgreen: . Now that sounds dangerous, though it doesn't make me want to behave any less morally. I feel that when I feel I've messed-up, I won't beat myself up about it so much. I think this is one of the biggest criticisms people have with these teachings. They think that if you're selfless then you don't care if you hurt others because you've lost your personal responsibility.
steve247
 
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:54 am

Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby Webwanderer » Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:54 pm

I think if we look directly at our own experience we can see that we have a limited free will. You can't grow a third arm just because you want to, but you can choose to ask questions on this forum, or not. Conditioning plays a role in the choices we make, but we are not automatons as we can learn from our experiences and make non-conditioned choices. The scope of our perception also allows us a degree of empathy so those choices are capable beyond a basic learning machine bumping its way through a maze.

I think the more revealing question is not whether free will exists, but what is its extent, and what is the consequence of its exercise?

WW
User avatar
Webwanderer
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 6303
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:03 am

Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby erict » Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:43 am

The question of free will has always fascinated me. That free will is limited is obvious, but the real question is, is there any at all?

Let's consider causal determinism:

Causal (or nomological) determinism is the thesis that future events are necessitated by past and present events combined with the laws of nature. Such determinism is sometimes illustrated by the thought experiment of Laplace's demon. Imagine an entity that knows all facts about the past and the present, and knows all natural laws that govern the universe. Such an entity may be able to use this knowledge to foresee the future, down to the smallest detail.


This makes perfect sense. So for free will to exist, causal determinism must be false. How could it be? Where is the seed of randomness?
"Be sincere; don't ask questions out of mere interest. Ask dangerous questions—the ones whose answers could change your life."
User avatar
erict
Site-Admin
Site-Admin
 
Posts: 1776
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:24 pm
Location: Israel

Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby moonmissy » Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:25 am

Why must there be a need for a will?...it is as it is! :lol:
Before and after there exist not one
Why attachments?
User avatar
moonmissy
 
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:15 am
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada

Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby steve247 » Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:18 am

erict wrote:The question of free will has always fascinated me. That free will is limited is obvious, but the real question is, is there any at all?

Let's consider causal determinism:

Causal (or nomological) determinism is the thesis that future events are necessitated by past and present events combined with the laws of nature. Such determinism is sometimes illustrated by the thought experiment of Laplace's demon. Imagine an entity that knows all facts about the past and the present, and knows all natural laws that govern the universe. Such an entity may be able to use this knowledge to foresee the future, down to the smallest detail.


This makes perfect sense. So for free will to exist, causal determinism must be false. How could it be? Where is the seed of randomness?


The thing is though, quantum mechanics is very weird and non-determinisic. I think it's based on probabilities. Particles can be in two places at once! Noone quite understands it but quantum theory is supported by extremely solid evidence, and it explains the behaviour of the most fundamental particles of the universe. I'm no expert by any means but it could be solid evidence that free will exists.
steve247
 
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:54 am

Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby erict » Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:08 am

Well then, there you have it, free will exists :)
"Be sincere; don't ask questions out of mere interest. Ask dangerous questions—the ones whose answers could change your life."
User avatar
erict
Site-Admin
Site-Admin
 
Posts: 1776
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:24 pm
Location: Israel

Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby Sighclone » Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:53 pm

Free will assumes that there is a "self" to exercise it. Gary Weber asserts that there is no such thing (free will OR self) and begins to support it with scientific evidence in his book "Happiness Beyond Thought" (the Libet experiments - there are others.) When I spoke to him on the phone, I said: "Get ready, Gary...I'm about to touch my nose...there I did it!" He said there are brain-wave experiments which suggest that the mental decision to touch my nose actually happened a few microseconds before I was aware of it. The notion of free will may be related to one's level of consciousness...???

Lately I've been fascinated with what are probably illusions (time, initiative, free will, motivation, etc.) I have the sense that what is important is how seriously you take the world of samsara. If you believe it is the final reality, and grind away with very concrete goals based in maya/samsara, there will be a profound lack of deep fulfillment (echoing ET.) But if you accept that the world is some kind of dream, a virtual reality, with certain rules (karma, etc...), and that the "little you" is a part of it, then you can plug along as a gamepiece, being the best "person" you can, and have a nice life. And maybe even wake up!

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 6183
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby steve247 » Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:42 pm

Sighclone wrote:Free will assumes that there is a "self" to exercise it.


Exactly sighclone. This is where my mind hits a brick wall! Quantum physics tells me free-will exists, but if it does, whose will is it if there is no self? :? It would have to be the free will of the one consciousness of which we all are.

Eckhart has mentioned that once you realise who you truly are, you're decisions are no longer determined by your past and you then have free will. The free will he's talking of is that of the one consciousness.

It's fascinating stuff but mind-boggling at the same time. :? :)
steve247
 
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:54 am

Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby steve247 » Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:05 pm

Sighclone, I just read your signature "You can't think your way to self-realization."

Do you think it's true? Both Eckhart and Adya awakened "through" thought. An insightful thought triggered their awakening. Adya also teaches meditative self-inquiry.

There's so many paradoxes and so much circular-reasoning in the spiritual path I don't know what to think. I enjoy meditating and have benefited greatly from it, but I wonder whether much can be gained from continuing to think about this stuff.
steve247
 
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:54 am

Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby erict » Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:09 pm

:lol: funny

If it was a thought that triggered their awakening, why don't you just have the same thought and awaken? :D
"Be sincere; don't ask questions out of mere interest. Ask dangerous questions—the ones whose answers could change your life."
User avatar
erict
Site-Admin
Site-Admin
 
Posts: 1776
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:24 pm
Location: Israel

Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby Sighclone » Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:22 pm

The event, and even much of the "process" (wrong word, but close) is nonmental. Any experience beyond but including the mind exceeds the capacity and limits of thought. I can "think my way" to an understanding of calculus -- not true of self-realization. All the effort of using the mind to answer the question of "Who Am I?" fails because "who you really are" is beyond the ability of the mind to delineate and describe. Ironically, that doesn't mean the effort was wasted, however -- ask Buddha! Moreover, that failure demonstrates the inability of the mind to wake up. Does a socket wrench know what it does? No blame. Giving up the mind's best tool, thinking, is a pre-requisite to awakening. Expecting thought to "get you there" guarantees you won't.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 6183
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Next

Return to Adyashanti

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest