What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

I just love Adya and I think he deserves his own forum.

Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby steve247 » Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:25 pm

erict wrote::lol: funny

If it was an a thought that triggered their awakening, why don't you just have the same thought and awaken? :D


Well they both had a thought immediately before awakening didn't they?

Eckahrt : "I can't live with myself any longer"

Adya: "who heard that sound?"

Insight through thought?
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Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby steve247 » Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:54 pm

Sighclone wrote:The event, and even much of the "process" (wrong word, but close) is nonmental. Any experience beyond but including the mind exceeds the capacity and limits of thought. I can "think my way" to an understanding of calculus -- not true of self-realization. All the effort of using the mind to answer the question of "Who Am I?" fails because "who you really are" is beyond the ability of the mind to deliniate and describe. Ironically, that doesn't mean the effort was wasted, however -- ask Buddha! Moreover, that failure demonstrates the inability of the mind to wake up. Does a socket wrench know what it does? No blame. Giving up the mind's best tool, thinking, is a pre-requisite to awakening. Expecting thought to "get you there" guarantees you won't.

Namaste, Andy


I'm not talking about using the mind to answer questions, that leads you nowhere. I'm talking about a single thought "as a question", as used in meditative self-inquiry. A single thought can lead to profound insights can it not? Adya himself says thought is a vital part of meditation and gaining insight. (From "true meditation")
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Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby steve247 » Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:10 pm

Here is a quote from the book "True Meditation - page 20" by Adya, word for word:

"Which isn't to say that the mind plays no part in spiritual awakening; this is also a common misunderstanding of spirituality. The mind plays a vital role. Thought itself plays a vital role. Later I will talk about how we use the mind in the form of spiritual inquiry. In spiritual inquiry we are actually engaging the mind, in order to go beyond the mind."
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Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby steve247 » Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:11 pm

erict wrote::lol: funny

If it was a thought that triggered their awakening, why don't you just have the same thought and awaken? :D


I may just :lol:
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Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby Sighclone » Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:19 pm

Steve -

Of course the mind has a role. Its role is to give up. Also from True Meditation, page 66: "When the mind asks the question ["What Am I?"], the mind looks within. And what does the mind find? It doesn't find anything....you are in the state of unknowing." The fact that you can't think your way to enlightenment doesn't mean you shouldn't try. Indeed, for some, like Adya's 15-year path, and Buddha's, it was a vital part. It's just the wrong tool, ultimately. What I don't know is how important mental inquiry is as a portal for each individual. It has been a mixed blessing for me.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby steve247 » Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:34 pm

:) Fair enough. Ultimately we all have to find our own way I guess, and follow the path we feel is right for us.
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Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby weopposedeception » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:08 am

Free will is like Santa Claus. If you believe it exists, then it exists for you.
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Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby randomguy » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:43 pm

Sighclone wrote:Free will assumes that there is a "self" to exercise it.

Adya on free will:
There is all this talk about whether there is
free will or no free will,
But such talk misses the mark.
For whom is there free will or no free will?

Ramana on Self-inquiry:
The very purpose of Self-inquiry is to focus the mind at its Source.
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho
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Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby steve247 » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:02 pm

randomguy wrote:
Sighclone wrote:Free will assumes that there is a "self" to exercise it.

Adya on free will:
There is all this talk about whether there is
free will or no free will,
But such talk misses the mark.
For whom is there free will or no free will?

Ramana on Self-inquiry:
The very purpose of Self-inquiry is to focus the mind at its Source.


I would answer Adya with "the form of me, does it have any free-will?".

Thanks for the quote from Ramana. So he didn't advocate self-enquiry through questioning, just simply to abide in awareness/consciousness?
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Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby kiki » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:43 pm

Thanks for the quote from Ramana. So he didn't advocate self-enquiry through questioning, just simply to abide in awareness/consciousness?


The purpose of self-enquiry is to realize that there is no "small self"/ego (what Ramana called the I-thought) and that consciousness is what you are. If self-enquiry remains on the level of questioning only (the level of mind) consciousness will likely be overlooked. What recognizes all questions, all thoughts? That's what you are, and that's where self-enquiry is intended to lead. See what you are and abide as that - then live life from that realization.
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Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby randomguy » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:51 pm

steve247 wrote:Thanks for the quote from Ramana. So he didn't advocate self-enquiry through questioning, just simply to abide in awareness/consciousness?

His teachings advocate; "Who am I?", not as a mantra, but as Self investigation, Self surrender.
His teachings advocate; "Find out", "You must say who you are."

steve247 wrote:I would answer Adya with "the form of me, does it have any free-will?".

Does the "form of me" exist outside of mind, memory, and imagination?
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho
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Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby James » Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:52 pm

steve247 wrote:
I'm not talking about using the mind to answer questions, that leads you nowhere. I'm talking about a single thought "as a question", as used in meditative self-inquiry. A single thought can lead to profound insights can it not? Adya himself says thought is a vital part of meditation and gaining insight. (From "true meditation")

Here is a quote from the book "True Meditation - page 20" by Adya, word for word:

"Which isn't to say that the mind plays no part in spiritual awakening; this is also a common misunderstanding of spirituality. The mind plays a vital role. Thought itself plays a vital role. Later I will talk about how we use the mind in the form of spiritual inquiry. In spiritual inquiry we are actually engaging the mind, in order to go beyond the mind."


Yes, mind/thought is an instrument of Awareness, it is happening within Awareness itself. It seems nearly everyone that realizes their True Nature (seemingly) arrives at that realization through some form of thinking, such as: Contemplation, Reading, Writing, Listening to a teacher, Watching a video, Discussion (or Internet Forums), Inquiry, Prayer. I say seemingly, because in the absolute sense, nothing is occurring in time, there is no time. But within the dream there appears to be a gradual understanding or recognition of Self through the avenue of the mind. But the actual realization occurs when the mind is quieted down, and Awareness reveals Itself as All... Always already Is. So thought is just the jumping off point, the realization occurs through letting go or surrender to what IS. Thought/mind then still operate within realized Awareness, but it has assumed its rightful place.

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Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby kiki » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:16 pm

Self-enquiry begins with the thought/mind and ends with awareness, even though awareness was/is always (t)here.
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Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby steve247 » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:45 pm

Thanks for your comments.

I've been using some self-inquiry during my meditations. I reach a point during meditation where my mind spontaneously stops, my hearing becomes very aware of sounds and there is only present-moment consciousness. It's so peaceful. Like Adya says, it's a spontaneous awakening. Just like waking up, it just happens. Has anyone else experienced this in meditation?

I meditate in an unconventional way, lying down believe it or not. I find it much more comfortable and most of the time I don't find myself falling asleep so I can't see the harm in it.

Once in that state I inquire. I say silently in my head phrases such as:

Who am I?
Who is aware?
Who heard that sound?
Is there a self that heard that?
Am I a story, is that what I am?
Who’s meditating?
Is there a self that’s aware?
What is it that’s aware?
Where is the self that needs approval?
Where is the self that needs to be liked?

No mind-blowing revelations yet. It's weird, because on one level I know the answers, but on another I don't.

Any suggestions from experienced meditators?
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Re: What is Adyashanti's view on free will?

Postby Ananda » Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:09 pm

Hello steve247

Perhaps, rather than looking to thinking for the answer to who you are, or looking to thinking to find the end of thinking, can you instead simply be aware of yourself? Take the shortcut which requires no distance and no tendency to go to the mind, recognise your own being, as you are already.

Hope this helps.
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