Meditation question

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Re: Meditation question

Postby Quinn » Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:00 pm

vera wrote:that the only problem is that you've decided it's a problem and you've claimed it as your own.


:D Beautifully said. I'm writing this one down. I can use the reminder.
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Re: Meditation question

Postby Sighclone » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:10 am

that the only problem is that you've decided it's a problem and you've claimed it as your own.


It is a common ego story: "My problem is huge...no one can solve it...my problem fully and irrevocably defines me...I am my huge insolvable problem.......I don't really want to solve my problem, I want to have it. Without my problem, who would I be?"

Who, indeed!! Let's see...without your problem what would remain? Well, for starters, your consciuosness would remain. And your sense of smell, and your ability to think, and appreciate and maybe even emanate love. It is certain that without your problem, "you" would be very different.

(I don't think you are as hung up as I'm suggesting, vera, by the way. But I have run across a large number of people whose identities are completely defined by their "problem.")

Andy
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There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Meditation question

Postby vera » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:17 am

Yes, Andy. I do know what you mean. I was very much like that when I was younger and still catch myself out turning things into problems.
I think in my case, at least now I am older, it’s actually about the mind liking solutions and problems being the precursor to solutions . Solutions are a great ego boost (“How clever/inspired/creative/dedicated I am to have devised this great solution to my problem!”)
Once a solution has been created my mind must invent another problem to solve in order to create the sense that there is some sort of steady progression towards an ultimate point when all my problems will be solved and life will be perfect. This validates the mind’s role in bringing about happiness. If I just stopped and realised that there are no problems as such then my mind would have nothing to do and could not be declared as the source of peace and happiness. Obviously it doesn’t like this.
I don’t know if you notice from what you have just read, but my mind also really enjoys playing around with concepts. “Oh yeah, I’ve totally got a handle on this whole awakening thing. I can talk the talk. I’m, like, completely down with it, man.”
I know what it’s up to but it's still in charge for some reason.
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Re: Meditation question

Postby Sighclone » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:19 am

The experience of awakening occurs, if only for a moment or two. Then the mind grabs onto it, claims it and labels it and starts out looking for it again. There is deep irony here, because the experience of awakening is nonmental. Eckhart says it happens by grace, the first time. I found that meditation helped me experience a state where the mind is at least very toned down if not still. Doesn't mean you will wake up, but at least it establishes a fertile seed-bed.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Meditation question

Postby vera » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:22 am

Yes, I think for me meditation helps in the same way. I get very caught up in intellectualising and trying to think my way out of things. These days I find it very difficult to make decisions in my life because I lack the sense of whether (in the context of my day-to-day bill-paying, job-going, family-loving life) certain things are right for me or wrong for me.

I am stuck in this place of not being sure about what matters and what doesn't. And when I do think something matters I second guess myself as to whether it should matter, whether it is just an ego thing etc. I suppose I don't trust my mind and because I don't seem to tune into anything other than it I feel like I am stuck in a stagnant place. It's like I accept the situations within my life but am unable to decide whether I want to embrace or abandon them. All this mental stuff really saps the creativity and freedom from my life.

I can't seem to just give up on all this rubbish, meditation at least gives me a break from it.
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Re: Meditation question

Postby Sighclone » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:45 am

I'd like to give you some encouragement from another author, Tim Freke regarding integration. This is from his small book "Lucid Living":
Lucid living is consciously being all that you are. Waking up to your essential identity as awareness doesn't negate your individuality. Quite the opposite. Lucid living is understanding just how important your individuality is. Becuase it is by dreaming itself to be you as an individual that the life-dreamer is able to experience the life dream. Lucid living is feeling truly empowered as a person because you know that the creative eneregy of the whole world universe is propelling you forward in your life. Lucid living doesn't deny the delights and dramas of everyday existence. It charges life with new significance and meaning. Everything that you experience is a manifestation of your essential nature. So everything is showing you something about who you are -- like a dream. You are continually dreaming up new situations that give you the opportunity to become more conscious. Lucid living is wholeheartedly engaging with ordinary life as an epic adventure of awakening. Lucid living isn't withdrawing into some detached state of enlighenment. It is enjoying an exhilarating state of enlivenment."


Your mind has brought you many successes in the dream world (I prefer the analogy 'world stage'.) And that is fine, just fine. But now, your mind is relieved of delivering final fulfillment from all of it. For that you can rely on your essential nature - timeless, eternal, inviolable pure awareness. So, extract modest enjoyment from your daily life. None of that stuff is required to do more than put food on the table -- and it never was capable of more than that anyway. Let it drone away, take moments for Self in all of it. And brief moments repeated often will do the trick for stabilizing Self-realization...check out greatfreedom.org for techniques and encouragement.

And stick around the little blue forum, too. Read a couple dozen of kiki's posts for some comfort...click on his name and "search users posts." Or any other member whose writing has appeal.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Meditation question

Postby vera » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:01 am

Sighclone wrote:I'd like to give you some encouragement from another author, Tim Freke regarding integration. This is from his small book "Lucid Living":
So everything is showing you something about who you are -- like a dream. You are continually dreaming up new situations that give you the opportunity to become more conscious. Lucid living is wholeheartedly engaging with ordinary life as an epic adventure of awakening."




Thanks, Andy. This is really great stuff to read. It speaks very directly to my lack of trust and fear - the sense that the older I get the more uncertain I am about absolutely everything. In my mid-late 20s I felt cheated, angry and so, so bitter when I realised that so much of what I was taught about as being fundamental and fixed in life was actually completely flimsy. It was kind of like finding out there's no such thing as Santa Claus.

Now I just need to give myself permission to continue to enjoy those things again. Even if they aren't the answer to all life's problems or the providers of ultimate peace. Instead of denying myself altogther as some sort of punishment for allowing myself to be tricked for so many years.
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Re: Meditation question

Postby Sighclone » Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:50 pm

Now I just need to give myself permission to continue to enjoy those things again. Even if they aren't the answer to all life's problems or the providers of ultimate peace. Instead of denying myself altogther as some sort of punishment for allowing myself to be tricked for so many years.


Do this, vera. Make a conscious decision to do something small for yourself, like formally take an afternoon to do something you like. Not something you think you "should like." Something you actually do like. And do it again and again.

Self-punishment is very sad, and unnecessary. There is another book I recommend -- it's called "Able & Equal" by Denton Roberts -- there are a few copies at abebooks and alibris..used. It is out of print. But it is all about being your own best friend. During and after awakening, there will still be a Vera. But gradually, she will become more comfortable with her new perspective as witness of the "old trapped, script-driven Vera" and have much more freedom and comfort to act spontaneously in truly life-supporting ways. Tim Freke, my new favorite writer talks about "Big Love" entering as the guiding and directing energy we experience. And applying Big Love to yourself is a keystone.

Blaming our parents or society or ourself for being "tricked for so many years" is a waste of time. It's getting stuck in the psychological "past" and prevents enjoying the present moment. Vera...Vera...Vera...you deserve to enjoy every single moment of your life.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Meditation question

Postby vera » Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:26 am

Thanks, Andy. I'm only just starting to realise that I have never been very good at letting myself do things for the joy of doing them. Particularly if they don't support or contribute to some story in my head. I have abandoned plenty of things that brought me a lot of joy because I didn't think I was good enough, or people would ask me "Where will doing that get you?" Or something about them was unpopular. It's probably time to rediscover some of those things. I have tried to do this in the past and I get this real terror rising up in me. However I think in the light of recent experiences welcoming in the fear, I might be less inclined to recoil this time.
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Re: Meditation question

Postby Sighclone » Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:31 am

You are a literate sensitive intelligent person. With a jillion stories and scripts. And you are not at all alone. I had a similar set of marching orders which I managed to shed through the years. When the "should" terror or the "should not" terror arises, deconstruct it with that great big mind. Then forgive whoever gave it to you and forgive yourself for nourishing it. And add this permission: "I cannot love myself without joyously responding 'yes' to at least one spontaneous, uncensored desire every day. If I cannot love myself (even my egoic self or whatever self-concept I have in this process), any love I try to project will be unnecessarily badly diluted -- Why Would I Do That?"

Stay in touch, vera.

Unconditional Love,

Namaste,

Andy
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