Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Re: Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Postby anewmirth » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:19 am

smiileyjen101 wrote: if I see an inspiring 'thing' ... 'who' it comes through is likely the least important factor.


Right on.

the key master wrote: Maharshi said without desire, you are dead.


RM said "Desirelessness is wisdom. The two are not different. Desirelessness is refraining from turning the mind towards any object. Wisdom means the appearance of no object. Not seeking what is other than the Self is detachment or desirelessness. Not leaving the Self is wisdom."

and another of many similar quotes from RM is: "'No want' is the greatest bliss. It can be realized only by experience. Even an emperor is no match for a man with no want."

I'm not sure in what context he said "without desire, you are dead". Can you help me with that?

the key master wrote: A teaching is for you if you say its for you. If there is a value in exploring any one teaching, it is to notice the limitations of it, and move on.


Great stuff. Thanks for your thoughts key master.

karmarider wrote:The conflict about NM's chain smoking might be similar to the conflict people sometimes mention about ET's account balance. Whereas I do have preferences, they have nothing to do with the efficacy of the ideas I might get from them.


I feel that ET doesn't know what he's going to do with the money. I feel he's just ready to do whatever seems right in the moment with the money. Can't think that he'd be too interested in hording it. Maybe he is going to make a foundation of sorts with it as he has suggested in an interview that I have seen. I'm not sure that it's the same as NM's smoking but I do get your point. I really like your comment about having nothing to do with the efficacy of the ideas you might get from them.

Thanks karmarider. Interesting to hear your views on Sai Baba too.

I seem to have done what I normally do. Throw a question out there. Get some very intelligent answers in which I mostly get lost in. Thank everyone cause I like everyone here. Stick in some more quotes by other spiritual teachers rather than try and keep up and sneak off. I would write more often but I just find I get out of my depth fairly quickly with all these word things and you guys being so good with the word things. I'll just sneak off at this point and do some more pretty pictures. :P
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Re: Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Postby the key master » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:50 am

mirth said,
RM said "Desirelessness is wisdom. The two are not different. Desirelessness is refraining from turning the mind towards any object. Wisdom means the appearance of no object. Not seeking what is other than the Self is detachment or desirelessness. Not leaving the Self is wisdom."

and another of many similar quotes from RM is: "'No want' is the greatest bliss. It can be realized only by experience. Even an emperor is no match for a man with no want."

I'm not sure in what context he said "without desire, you are dead". Can you help me with that?


I'm quite certain that the quote is from Be As You Are as that's the only Maharshi book I spent any time on apart from whatever I've read from him on the interwebs. I'm also quite sure he said the desire for life is as natural as it gets somewhere in the same talk.

In terms of context, as the mind isn't you anyway, and freedom comes in the realization of that, whatever mind is geared up to move toward is what it's geared up to move toward, and we call this the human experience, taking vacations, teaching kiddies, chillin with friends, walking in the mountains and eating bugs, its all the same one thang. The idea that any mind is geared up to not move is clearly untrue as mind can only be noticed in motion, including Ramana's or anyone else's.

Not leaving the Self is wisdom.


I have no idea how leaving the Self would even be possible.

Ramana said,
"Desirelessness is wisdom. The two are not different. Desirelessness is refraining from turning the mind towards any object.


How can a mind turn on an object anyway? Mind is an object that's noticed by something which isn't it. Desirelessness is a mind state, nothing more. The only thing found in that state is an imaginary character that doesn't exist, and you couldn't be that if you wanted to be. Wisdom is seeing that clearly.

Wisdom means the appearance of no object.


Or the absence of the delusion that objects appear in actuality. Its not like separation was really the case and then all of a sudden its not.

Not seeking what is other than the Self is detachment or desirelessness.


Nothing is other than the Self. So not seeking what doesn't exist does seem like a good idea because its not actually possible anyway. With that said, if you're hungry, seek out some food. On that note... 8)
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Re: Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Postby karmarider » Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:35 pm

the key master wrote:
Which is exactly the technique that Nisargadatta (sense of I am), Ramana (what am I) and John Sherman (look at the you-ness of you) suggest. They are effective, and I feel John Sherman is the clearest about it.


When Niz was talking about love and entering into other focal points in consciousness, this wasn't the result of some technique he was using, it was the result of seeing through something that was never there to begin with, the boundaries which made it seem like he was axooly separate. You don't love someone by using a technique or entering their focal point or doing anything at all, you love in the absence of belief that you are separate, which expresses itself in the experience in God knows what way...


It's been a while since I've read "I am that" and a while since I've read about NM, but if I remember correctly NM did repeatedly say that he used the technique of holding on the the sense of I am, and it seems that whatever questions he was asked, he continually brought it back to say that it was the technique which was effective for him.

And it's what RM suggests, and what John Sherman claims has worked for him and others, and in my experience the technique does do something. I think it unravels the delusion of fear.
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Re: Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Postby rideforever » Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:54 pm

This is on Wikipedia :

In 1933, he was introduced to his guru, Siddharameshwar Maharaj, the head of the Inchegiri branch of the Navnath Sampradaya, by his friend Yashwantrao Baagkar. His guru told him, "You are not what you take yourself to be...".[8] He then gave Nisargadatta simple instructions which he followed verbatim, as he himself recounted later:

"You are not what you take yourself to be...".[8] He then gave Nisargadatta simple instructions which he followed verbatim, as he himself recounted later:

"My Guru ordered me to attend to the sense 'I am' and to give attention to nothing else. I just obeyed. I did not follow any particular course of breathing, or meditation, or study of scriptures. Whatever happened, I would turn away my attention from it and remain with the sense 'I am'. It may look too simple, even crude. My only reason for doing it was that my Guru told me so. Yet it worked!" [9]
Following his guru's instructions to concentrate on the feeling "I Am", he utilized all his spare time looking at himself in silence, and remained in that state for the coming years, practising meditation and singing devotional bhajans


What I would say is ... is that what we are doing ? Spending every minute of our spare time in meditation ? Or is it just a passtime ? Lots of questions and distractions, fooling around.

An Indian man living in 1940s was probably a good deal more accustomed to devotion and more innocent then the people today, especially westerners.

For his teacher to actually give Nisargadatta these direct instructions perhaps meant that the teacher sensed that Nisargadatta was innocent enough to just do it. Most disciplines you have to play games with for a while until they are able to do it.

Nisargadatta understood and did it.
I was proud, and I demanded the finest teacher
.. .. and when he appeared
.. .. .. .. I was so small
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Re: Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Postby the key master » Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:12 pm

karmarider wrote:
the key master wrote:
Which is exactly the technique that Nisargadatta (sense of I am), Ramana (what am I) and John Sherman (look at the you-ness of you) suggest. They are effective, and I feel John Sherman is the clearest about it.


When Niz was talking about love and entering into other focal points in consciousness, this wasn't the result of some technique he was using, it was the result of seeing through something that was never there to begin with, the boundaries which made it seem like he was axooly separate. You don't love someone by using a technique or entering their focal point or doing anything at all, you love in the absence of belief that you are separate, which expresses itself in the experience in God knows what way...


It's been a while since I've read "I am that" and a while since I've read about NM, but if I remember correctly NM did repeatedly say that he used the technique of holding on the the sense of I am, and it seems that whatever questions he was asked, he continually brought it back to say that it was the technique which was effective for him.

And it's what RM suggests, and what John Sherman claims has worked for him and others, and in my experience the technique does do something. I think it unravels the delusion of fear.


Yes he absolutely did talk about holding onto the sense I Am, but I think his going into and out of focal points of consciousness bit was his best way of conceptualizing the realization that he actually is all people at all times while appearing as one of those people. Bit of an odd thang to talk about. In terms of holding onto the I Am as a technique, well that's a whole nother can-o-worms.
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Re: Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Postby karmarider » Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:43 pm

the key master wrote:Yes he absolutely did talk about holding onto the sense I Am, but I think his going into and out of focal points of consciousness bit was his best way of conceptualizing the realization that he actually is all people at all times while appearing as one of those people. Bit of an odd thang to talk about. In terms of holding onto the I Am as a technique, well that's a whole nother can-o-worms.


I see what you're saying. I brought up a pdf of "I am that" and searched for focal points and there are a lot of references. I'll have to reread and see what he says about expanding/focusing attention. You're probably talking about this:

Look, my thumb touches my forefinger. Both touch and are touched. When my attention; is on the thumb, the thumb is the feeler and the forefinger -- the self. Shift the focus of attention and the relationship is reversed. I find that somehow, by shifting the focus of attention, I become the very thing I look at and experience the kind of consciousness it has; I become the inner witness of the thing. I call this capacity of entering other focal points of consciousness -- love; you may give it any name you like. Love says: 'I am everything'. Wisdom says: 'I am nothing' Between the two my life flows.
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Re: Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Postby the key master » Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:29 pm

Yea that's the bit. He sure had a way with words didn't he? I wish I knew how to speak Marathi so I could scope the originals.

I find expansion and constriction of attention to be a spontaneous movement without anyone controlling anything. I'm not saying it doesn't happen in my experience. It does happen. Every time I think, I notice a constriction, as consciousness creates thought and perceives it simultaneously. The delusion is that there's actually a person here creating or thinking thoughts. There is no such entity. Yet at the same time, within the realm of creation, form, the manifested, human beings do interact with each other, not using their minds, but as their minds. Sometimes within that 'as-ness' the delusion exists that this is somehow other than the One in communion with itself. Sometimes it doesn't.

(***edited)
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Re: Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Postby azooo » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:44 am

I have serched the entire book (there is a pdf online) to find the parts in which he talks about smoking.

Are you sure we live in the same world? I do not mean nature, the sea and the land, plants and
animals. They are not the problem, nor the endless space, the infinite time, the inexhaustible power.
Do not be misled by my eating and smoking, reading and talking. My mind is not here, my life is not
here. Your world, of desires and their fulfilments, of fears and their escapes, is definitely not my
world. I do not even perceive it, except through what you tell me about it. It is your private dream
world and my only reaction to it is to ask you to stop dreaming.


Q: I see you smoking!
M: Exactly so. You see me smoking. Find out for yourself how did you come to see me Smoking,
and you will easily realise that it is your 'I-am-the-body' state of mind that is responsible for this 'I-
see-you-smoking' idea.
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Re: Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Postby azooo » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:54 am

Another nice quote to be found in the book

You must be extreme to reach the Supreme
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Re: Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Postby the key master » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:06 pm

azooo wrote:I have serched the entire book (there is a pdf online) to find the parts in which he talks about smoking.

Are you sure we live in the same world? I do not mean nature, the sea and the land, plants and
animals. They are not the problem, nor the endless space, the infinite time, the inexhaustible power.
Do not be misled by my eating and smoking, reading and talking. My mind is not here, my life is not
here. Your world, of desires and their fulfilments, of fears and their escapes, is definitely not my
world. I do not even perceive it, except through what you tell me about it. It is your private dream
world and my only reaction to it is to ask you to stop dreaming.




LOL. He sounds like a guy who likes getting high on tobacco using context to appear more holier than thou. That's what believing that desireless non sense will get ya. If Niz claimed he didn't find some form of mental or physical pleasure/fulfillment from smoking, I don't believe a word of it. That said, he doesn't seem all that conflicted about it, hehe.
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Re: Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Postby karmarider » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:50 pm

the key master wrote:LOL. He sounds like a guy who likes getting high on tobacco using context to appear more holier than thou. ....


Yeah. Seems to me he was having fun with the attitude that smoking or eating meat has anything to do with being a natural human being. I googled his smoking, and found this report from Peter Madill:

Consistent with the caste into which he was born, he included meat as part of his diet. However, his habit of smoking dismayed some of those who visited him and even led a few to dismiss him outright. Despite several indignant protests over his incessant smoking of biddies (hand-made Indian cigarettes), Maharaj, when asked why an enlightened man continued to smoke, responded: “Even after enlightenment the body is allowed to continue a few of its habits and to me it is not a big deal. Wake up, look through apparent appearances, examine your own righteousness and judgment, and separate the wheat from the chaff. If you can’t see beyond surface appearance and get caught up in your superficial judgments, then you have no business being here with me.”
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Re: Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Postby the key master » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:51 pm

“Even after enlightenment the body is allowed to continue a few of its habits and to me it is not a big deal. Wake up, look through apparent appearances, examine your own righteousness and judgment, and separate the wheat from the chaff. If you can’t see beyond surface appearance and get caught up in your superficial judgments, then you have no business being here with me.”


Now that sounds a lot more honest than this---------->

My mind is not here, my life is not here. Your world, of desires and their fulfilments, of fears and their escapes, is definitely not my
world.


Point being, if someone asks a guy why he's smoking, and he says he doesn't have a mind and is outside the bounds of desires and fulfilments, dat's not honest. My guess is he smoked cuz he wanted to and he liked the way it made him feel. Desirelessness is bliss, humf. Being high on tobacco is bliss. That's what he meant! Luv ya Niz, but I call foul.
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Re: Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Postby azooo » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:05 pm

This one is a gem as well

Liberation is never of the person, it is always from the person.
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Re: Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Postby the key master » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:12 pm

azooo wrote:This one is a gem as well

Liberation is never of the person, it is always from the person.


Zakly. Mind don't transcend itself, peeps don't transcend themselves. Almost paradoxically, neither of the two existed in their own right to begin with.
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Re: Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Postby azooo » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:38 pm

Keep quiet, undisturbed, and the wisdom and the power will come on their own. You need not hanker. Wait in silence of the heart and mind. It is very easy to be quiet, but willingness is rare.
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