I did not come to bring peace, but a sword - please help

[Old_Dog]

I did not come to bring peace, but a sword - We are going in different directions – please help

My wife and I have a wonderful marriage but now I’m concerned about the relationship due to my change in interests. I have recently discovered the power of now and in order to get out of my head I have reduced my mental stimulus/entertainment. My need for alone time has grown. Now I enjoy activities that aren’t mind based like walking, sitting and manual labor. I find the television very distracting. Before I was all about entertainment and drugs and now I’m not, but my wife is (except for the drugs, she quit that with me.) I don’t expect her to change, we both accept and love each other unconditionally but we no longer have the same interests.

I do compromise by watching movies and some shows with the family but I can’t spend all my free time watching TV like I used to. We walk sometimes but for her it’s a good time to talk – in fact talking is pretty much a constant. I feel like a big killjoy. I stay up late into the night just to have some time where I’m not constantly being bombarded with words. I understand now why Eckhart enjoys being alone so much. I can be present while watching TV or talking or reading but being present means giving undivided attention to what is going on around me, what is being said to me and truthfully responding – hearing the words, seeing the images, the mind is engaged. In other words I can use my mind as a tool and pick it up as needed but it seems like it’s always needed. So I try to leave apart of my attention on my body as a field of energy as Tolle recommends meanwhile my wife complains that I don’t spend enough time with her. She asks, “What do you want to do?” Somehow, “nothing” is not an acceptable answer LOL.

Sometimes I wish a fire would come and consume all of our stuff, I really don’t want it anymore but wishes are a sign of resistance. I cringe when I think of how much I am paying for this ego box we call TV. It’s not fair for me to impose my new found state on my family, they love it – so be it. I feel like pulling a Forrest Gump and going for a walk-about.

I have talked to my wife about all this and she says, “If you want to go, go” but I can’t hurt her that way. I’ve been divorced once and I won’t hurt someone I’ve promised to be with and love dearly again especially for something as small as incompatibility. Can I be the space for this? Should I be? I know that no one can tell me whether to stay or go but maybe some of you have had to deal with this – any suggestions?

I’m reminded of what Jesus said, "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB)

[Webwanderer]

Welcome to the forum Old_Dog.

Everyone's situation is different, but the place for inspired guidance is the same. Welcome this challenge as an opportunity to love your family in a more unconditional way. The conditions in which you find yourself are what you have to work with so wishing for something else is wasted energy. You are awakening to the truth of being. It's not in the mental conditioning. It's not in interactive stories we spin in our minds and and habitually share with each other. It's in the quiet presence that allows us to see all experience as content within awareness - our true nature.

It is in this same quiet presence that we find the guidance for all life's challenges from the mundane to profound. Family responsibilities may intrude on the amount of time you would prefer to spend alone, but that just means the opportunities you do have ought not be past by. And they are many once you know where to look. Take short moments many times to rest in clarity - in the shower, taking out the trash, driving to work, mowing the lawn. The day is rich with opportunity.

When the other opportunities present themselves, speak to your wife about the discoveries you are making on the distinction between mental identity and thought free presence, and the peace such recognition brings to life. It is at the core of all of us and on some level we all know it.

Of course caution is advised not to preach or stand above, and understand that you could frighten her in her ego perspective, so be gentile, and humble, and forever patient. Look at her with love and the understanding that she is not the personality that talks out the mental stories spinning through her mind, but is life yet unaware of her true nature. You cannot change her, but you can see the truth about her which may be just the catalyst that inspires her to look for herself. Have no expectations, just the generosity of love.

WW

[Amritam]

Old Dog, I have experienced this very thing. I am almost 58 and I married at age 20. I reached a point in my life where solitude was a must. I thought I would die without it. So, I get up very early in the mornings to meditate and enjoy my alone time. This also means I go to bed very early which gives me some time to contemplate and read.

The best solitude of all is when i go on my retreats. I found a cabin to rent in a quiet rural area and I go there for just a couple of days at a time. I get to do a lot of walking, yoga, and meditation and it is heaven. No tv, no computer and no phones on my retreats.

LIke you, I can barely tolerate television. I will watch a decent rented movie once in while with my husband but I won't waste my time watching ballgames, mindless sitcoms, etc.

[Sighclone]

Welcome, Old Dog. Great comments above.

OK...let's look at this from your wife's unconscious perspective. I've gotta assume that she's always been a talker, and that that hasn't changed - or maybe it's worse. You guys need to do some "expectation setting." Have you ever done that? That's where you sit down, with no TV, and no distractions and write down, independently, the expectations you have today in your marriage...not the ones that were unwritten when you were married, but the ones you have today. Both grab pencils and tablets, and write them independently - might take 15 minutes. Then compare and compromise.

Yours will include some long periods of solitude. Hers will not. But you can compromise. Yours will include a long discussion of Eckhart Tolle, including her at least reading ANE or PON. That is very damn reasonable that she should at least read, cover to cover, a book which has changed your life...she does not have to agree with any of it, but she sure as hell should respect you enough to read it.

Her list will probably include "listening to me." A compromise will include "listen to me except during those periods which we have both agreed are our 'time for stillness.'" During that time, she can go bowling, or gardening, or talk on the phone, or, if your living situtation has enough space, watch TV with the volume down. But respect for stillness is completely reasonable.

You can figure this out lovingly, write down an agreement and sign it. Anything short of that will not work.

In my opinion...

Andy

[snowheight]

I've had a similar experience. A non-stop talking wife that seems to constantly break my state of Presence and disturb that wonderful sense of inner peace.

I can tell you that, in my case at least, it got better.

Something that ET said in SP is very helpful: look for the space between the manifestations. Even a loud, annoying sound emerges from and eventually fades back into an underlying background silence. Try to perceive that underlying silence behind the noise. It is there.

In my case, I found that conducting conversations from Presence were shorter, as it takes two to tango -- when you don't follow mind threads, don't identify with positions, the conversation can end more quickly.

The Now is all around you all of the time -- relax and don't worry when the veil comes down and you perceive it as being shattered. It is still there and will always be there for you. Presence is timeless ... what is the difference between experiencing it for a day, an hour, a minute or a second? Learn to relish "micro-Presence", in those seconds or minutes between stimuli. If you keep watching you can, I assure you this.

Another idea for that part of your ego which, seemingly paradoxically, is grasping onto the feeling of peace and disappointed when your wife starts talking is to consider remaining Present in your situation a challenge. Hell, it is easy for a monk who lives simply, celibately, quietly and without ambition to get into and stay into the Now, isn't it? Hard for us who have previous attachments that aren't easily shed, who live in a material world, right? What kind of a fool would NOT be able to remain Present without all of these distractions! Look at it as an opportunity. Don't worry for now that this is egoic (pride in overcoming a challenge), just accept the idea as it is.

Good luck with this.

[snowheight]

I can be present while watching TV or talking or reading but being present means giving undivided attention to what is going on around me, what is being said to me and truthfully responding – hearing the words, seeing the images, the mind is engaged.

One of the poster's here, Kutso, has pointed out on more than one occasion a distinction between attention and awareness.

[Old_Dog]

Thank you all for replying to my post. Most of the comments were very insightful and encouraging. Amritam: I especially like the idea of renting a cabin for a few days. At home I intend allow my life circumstances to become an opportunity to grow.

[jasmine]

I don't agree with much of what has been said here. I hear a lot of judgement, resisiting reality, and insistence that "presence" during quiet times (being left alone) is the only legitimate form of presence. I'm sorry Old Dog. Your wife, and the rest of your life, as every moment unfolds, present opportunities for you to grow. It is those opportunities you need to be present to.

You have decided that your wife's TV watching & talking are less "spiritual" than your peaceful contemplation. I think that is hogwash. The universe is presenting you with what YOU need to learn. You are overlooking (or avoiding) those real lessons in favor of contrived experiences designed to make you feel more "present!" Present to what? Be present to your real life. Listen to your life. Nothing is happening by accident. There is noise in the kitchen right now because there is meant to be noise in the kitchen. That clammer is no less spiritual than the cherished silence you so long for.

Be present to YOUR life, with all the inconvenient distractions, noises, and circumstances you would prefer to absent yourself from. That's where YOUR truth lies, Old Dog. You may be concerned that its not very impressive, or that it doesn't sound like Eckhart's world, but its a privilege of a lifetime to be who YOU are. Don't miss it!

[eckhart01]

You seem to have objectified 'peace' and spirituality. I did the same for a long time; for instance I would get agitated when my sibling would play loud music as I was trying to go into the body and eventually fall asleep. I can talk to you about accepting that there are distractions all around you, but unless you truly feel that there really is no such thing as a distraction to peace, that advice is irrelevant to you, as it was in my case when Tolle would speak of it. Keep feeling the energy in your body, give it attention. At some point it will be clear that without the 'thought of distractions', there really is no such thing. And movies and TV are an incredible opportunity for going into the body - moreover you find that you are giving more attention to what is happening than you ever did.

[nutrition]

I feel like pulling a Forrest Gump and going for a walk-about.

I think at some point in people's life there is this desire to change and radically transform oneself. Old Dog feels this need after reading ET, others might feel this need after they decide to have an affair and leave their family to start a new life with a new woman.
However, there is a big difference here.
Old DOg has verbalized to his wife the changes that are taking place in him and someone suggested in a post that old dog and wife sit down and compromise on their preferences. That's right, the way I see these changes is in light of preferences.
Given the oportunity old dog prefers to be alone 2 hours a day and 2 days out of a month. His wife prefers to talk about some issue for 2 hours a day and visit a new city a weekend during the month and go shopping...
Old dog is not trying to find some contrived way into awareness, he preferes certain conditions over others. The ideal is not to create attachements to these conditions by saying: unless i go to my 2 day retreat in the cabin I will not be happy and at peace. OR If my wife keeps talking for another minute I am going to sink into deep frustration and became deeply unconscious.
I am deeply touched by old dog's way of dealing with these profound changes he is experiencing, he is showing a great level of awareness and love for himself and his wife....unlike my husband who felt the same urge to be alone but left us for another woman whom he sees on a regular basis while he lives alone.....what do you call a solution like that? And by the way, this solution is the one many people opt for in this day and age where relationships are falling apart!

Blessing

[mus3cho]

Have you tried practicing acceptance? What harm would it do to accept her for who she is now, the situation for what it is now, yourself for who you are now...all for now. Tell us all what happens when you do that.

After all, you are partially responsible for the current state of affairs. If you resist, you are resisting yourself, too.

Tell us all what happens when you do that.

[rachMiel]

... any suggestions?

A good marriage counselor to help you two hash things out.

I don't mean to be flippant. Problems in the "relative" world (that heinously imperfect place our bodies/brains inhabit) are sometimes best dealt with by professionals who work with/at this relative level. A good counselor can be a godsend. I'd say you probably would do better with someone who understands and supports your journey towards presence.

[mus3cho]

I could paint a really negative picture of my husband without really trying very hard. He could say the same about himself...that he could portray me, his wife, as a most undesirable woman. If he tried. But I try to look at his character and effort to do the best he can, and he hangs in there with me. We've been together 16 years, married for 7. Many rocky moments. But I think we both accept that. We certainly aren't in the same spiritual place, probably won't ever be. That's okay. I'm okay with that. He seems to be just fine with it, too. We're right where we're supposed to be. We still have more fun together than when we are with anyone else.

[Sighclone]

We read and write about the big differences between "shifted" and "unconscious" people. And then we read that after awakening, that unconditional love is a major theme. That has been my experience. Oddly, after the Science and Nonduality Conference in San Rafael last year, I left with a message that kind of leaked between the lines of all the talks..."after awakening, the primary motivation to action is compassion."

But my main point in this post is that "love" or "compassion" is a sense, an appreciation, a feeling which is both vital in the enightened state and also in the unconscious state. It is the one thread, the one clear link betwen the two. An unconscious person listening to a newly awakened person, or a person deep in the process of awakening can hear the simple message of love, even if they don't understand or even accept nonduality. And the same is true of the advancing spititual person with the unconscious partner. We know and feel they love us.

Andy

[Craig]

I have talked to my wife about all this and she says, “If you want to go, go” but I can’t hurt her that way. I’ve been divorced once and I won’t hurt someone I’ve promised to be with and love dearly again especially for something as small as incompatibility. Can I be the space for this? Should I be? I know that no one can tell me whether to stay or go but maybe some of you have had to deal with this – any suggestions?

I want to call you out on something. I once had a coach who said "The next time you find yourself saying 'I don't want to hurt her...' man-up and own that you're the one who's afraid. Stop making it about her." I think you'll find that if you look really closely here, it's true. This actually isn't about hurting her- it's about how you feel, and your fears.

Something to think about.