A discussion community revolving around Eckhart Tolle but not limited to him
Enlightened2B wrote: Would love to hear other's takes on this as I feel it's an interesting subject matter.
WE can't possibly take the relationship to be as serious as we would have prior to our shift in perspective while the person we are involved with IS taking the situation incredibly to heart believing that they and you are attached at the hip in this fictitious notion of "romance". We on the other hand know that neither of us really exist as separate entities.
merlin41 wrote:The current situation is that we are playing with the form but not taking it too seriously, I say we but I can only speak for myself as I feel she is not in the same state of mind as me. In saying that she does take on board some of the ET stuff, and I am reading “A New Earth” to her in bed as a nightcap, (words of wisdom as she calls it). How it will ultimately turn out I have no idea, but as long as we communicate in truth I notice there is no friction between us and it is fun and light.
I will add that I am not sure I could have created this situation when I was younger with all the hormones coursing through my body, and the strong pull to have sex and mate. Life is so much easier without a powerful sex drive, which I feel can be a huge obstacle for young men especially, (and probably women as well) to let go of, if indeed we should?
Enlightened2B wrote:When we ourselves who have realized who and what we truly are start to get involved with others who are still believing themselves to BE separate and BE their minds/ego, WE can't possibly take the relationship to be as serious as we would have prior to our shift in perspective while the person we are involved with IS taking the situation incredibly to heart believing that they and you are attached at the hip in this fictitious notion of "romance". We on the other hand know that neither of us really exist as separate entities.
Enlightened2B wrote:However, I don't feel it's possible to get "serious" with anyone on a romantic level unless both people are literally on the same page spiritually speaking. Then it becomes merely a "play in form".
Enlightened2B wrote:In my own situation, I want to see this woman again. However, it's clearly ego that wants this. There is nothing possibly out there that could desire another human being's attention, body, etc other than ego. I think once you realize this, it's easier to play around in form. Yet, at the same time, is this person on the same page as you in understanding what a relationship really is? It's a rhetorical question, but I think there's an ethical issue with that too unless again we know that person understands that the relationship itself is merely a temporary play in form in the same context that you yourself are taking it to be. But, how would they know this if they weren't on a spiritual path of their own?
TemporalDissonance wrote:I recall Adyashanti mentioned in one of his books (perhaps "The End of the World") that while shifts in perspectives/awakening/etc and being the witness, the Self can be exceptionally satisfying and blissful, there can be a trap that we get stuck there. He compares it to going up the mountain summit and staying there, but eventually we have to come back down. This reminds me of the Zen saying, "Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water." We may experience and come to know who we really are, but we cannot deny our humanness.
The question then comes right back to "what is romance?" What is a "serious" romantic relationship for you? Your mention of "play of form" really sheds light on what ET really means when he says that there is a delight in the "play for form". I understand your reference to "play of form" is a negatory one. However, is it a negative or positive thing?
When we see the Self, and know that everything and everyone as the Self, is there no perfection?
Where are these questions really coming from? Your doubt, perhaps even fear, about this relationship, where are they coming from?
Enlightened2B wrote:However, when it comes to pursuing "romantic" relationships again, it's very difficult because you see the relationship for what it is and then start to question "Is this real?"....Honestly, at this point, I have no idea what a romantic relationship is ha....However, my current definition does not exist because I think romance is not real. I can't help but feel this. I'm finding it very difficult to have ANY motivation to pursue a relationship knowing fully well that ego is pulling the strings. I can date casually with no invested interest other than to enjoy the time spent with another human being. However, once you start getting "involved" with another, everything starts to change and ego starts to take over.
Enlightened2B wrote:...what's left to pursue in a relationship after we see it for what it is? Ego creates duality. Romance creates duality. Duality is an illusion. Separateness is an illusion. Therefore, romance is an illusion.
Enlightened2B wrote:I find it difficult to understand why I am going through this process of seeing this woman other than what ego is pulling at.....Here's a better way to sum it up. I am her and she is me. There is only one, yet I am trying to make sense of these feelings I have inside and I KNOW they can only be from ego. Ego is the ONLY thing that views as "separation".
Enlightened2B wrote:ALL modern day romantic, monogamous relationships are based on expectations to some degree. That's why it's almost impossible to not feel hurt when your partner does you 'wrong". We are drawn to people in the first place because of the mental construct created about that person. Our minds convince us that "this person" is 'right" for us and as a result, we start to develop expectations for how things "should" be. Can we seriously be involved in a "serious monogamous relationship with no expectations, wants, needs or desires? We'd essentially be sex buddies Some people think this is natural to allow ourselves to feel heartbroken when someone hurts us . I feel this is NOT natural because we allowed ourselves in the first place to become so incredibly attached to another in the world of form.
At the core, a monogamous relationship by definition requires both parties to be faithful. It is a construct. An agreement between two people. Whether one is spiritual or not, there is the understanding that both parties are not sleeping/romantically linked with others outside the relationship. There is an expectation of monogamy. Yes it is an "illusion". But does one approach such a relationship arrangement without agreeing to such an expectation willingly in the first place?
Perhaps the question is can we approach a monogamous relationship from a position of lesser expectations, wants, needs or desires? Because if we are so detached from such a relationship arrangement in the first place, would we allow ourselves to get into one?
I think there can be approaches that are more aware than perhaps how many of us behave in such a relationship. Would you cheat on your partner if you are aware? Knowing your action could lead to your partner's suffering? Would you stay in such an arrangement if it leads to your partner's or your suffering? What happens if your partner cheat on you? Would you suffer because such an event occur?
While we can become detach from the everyday from the position of the Absolute, would the Absolute do things that would cause more suffering? Regardless of the relationship, sex buddies to monogamy, ultimately, perhaps we would have to "want" to be in a monogamous relationship to be in one, knowing full well the "rules of the game" we are playing in. "Want" not from that of the Ego but that of choice, Freedom and Spirit.
Enlightened2B wrote:If my partner cheated on me after we both "committed" to this monogamous relationship, I would inevitably be heart broken. How could I not be when I had set myself up for this by agreeing to "commitments" and "conditions"?
Enlightened2B wrote:You inevitably DO become more attached to that person. How can you not be after essentially agreeing to be faithful and expecting the same in return?
Enlightened2B wrote:Is there an enlightened person that would not be affected by heartbreak in a relationship?
Is this true though? What is that you are really attached? To not be a victim? To not feel cheated in such an agreement? Does this matter if one is fully in the now enjoying being with the person you care for? Expectation suggests a future. Something that will be either fulfilled or not fulfilled. It also suggest a past. Something that was fulfilled or not fulfilled.
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