Romance and the Ego

Talk about relationships in the context of Spiritual Enlightenment

Re: Romance and the Ego

Postby smiileyjen101 » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:23 am

I feel that once we are complete as our true selves, there really is no NEED anymore for 'romance' to complete us as Merlin indicated. It's merely just enjoying this existence and more of an opportunity as TD and others have said all along to express our love fully in the form of just allowing whatever happens to happen. After all, that's all we are and all we can be.


This 'may' throw a spanner in the works. The notion of being 'complete as our true selves', is awry, in my timid and humble opinion. It ain't over till its over, and it ain't ever over! Not that anything's 'missing', just that its always evolving.

The 'dance' we do in romantic, perhaps also in other needs-based / experiential relating, for me has been a wonderful journey of illuminating untruths, things I believed to be true, by ignorance, projection or assuming. The peeling off of the layers of an onion in a sense. If one is 'awake', and once one gets over demonising aspects of our (beautifully) 'flawed' humanity we can see the immense opportunities afforded us in form and in relating to knowingly take on the expanding of awareness.

Immense opportunities that we can choose in willingness, or not even consider in unwillingness of experience. While yes we are one, our expression of who we are is individuated in form and learning the balance of that - is where a relationship takes on its own individuated 'form'.

rrraaaggghghghgh how to explain this.

Biologically if two (sexually) become one and create a third (embryo) the growth of that embryo into another human (or other species) in form is amazing, incredible. The embryo is genetically / biologically the sum of the two parts, but it's not only that, it is a life unto itself.

A while back I delightedly watched my daughter and son-in-law absolutely floored looking at their tiny baby daughter and in their gorgeous child-like relating absolutely captivated with the notion - 'we made that, how amazing is that? We actually 'made' that.' The two of them were enthralled by the exponential creativity of it - and yes most parents experience that wonder, and eventually it gets down to tin-tacks of 'who'll change the next nappy', 'how will we teach her this/that and the next thing'. From my vantage point though, I was privileged to witness an aspect of another 'entity' these two in coming together had seeded, birthed and were growing - their relationship. It has as much personality as their baby does.

Their (and all) relationships are, in form, a separated entity in itself. Materialistically a sum of the two parts, but not only that, it is also a life unto itself - life merely being experience.

So in interactive based relating there is one + one + one to consider, not just you and me, but the relationship that we're seeding, birthing and growing. These three inter-act on each other, and project images and spread resonances by their 'being'.

Not just knowing who am I, who are you, what are our boundaries and perspectives and opportunities, but what is our relationship, (who is it - is it ms narcissism, mr needy, junior drama queen, madam butterfly, jug o'love, hero or slave, saviour or demon,) all and any of the cloaks we throw at and over it that creates expectations and multiple personalities.

Just as one would negotiate who changes the baby's nappy and how that is decided, inter-relating gets down to the tin-tacks of supporting and accommodating the 'personality' of the relationship.

Widen that by the multiplicity of relationships each of us have on myriad layers and therein lays the complexity and depth of opportunities we are afforded in relating in form.

Yes, even with the lady in the elevator :D
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com
User avatar
smiileyjen101
 
Posts: 3681
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:44 am

Re: Romance and the Ego

Postby TemporalDissonance » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:56 am

In our awakened state meaning we have a clear understanding of what and who we are, we form relationships (platonic, family, etc.) with others because we enjoy their company and feel them as a direct expression of OUR true selves since once again, they ARE us in another physical body. Even people we have NOTHING in common with are often friends with us. There is empathy and compassion automatically in every moment that ego does not show its head. We have an opportunity to extend our love to another by being true to ourselves and in turn, being true to "others". As Jen indicated, honesty is the highest form of love. I think when we are honest with who we are, love is an automatic side effect. It's a blissful feeling, knowing that we ARE the present moment, nothing more and nothing less. I feel the purpose of existence in this human form is to evolve consciousness to the best of our ability. But, once we are there, there's not much else we can do, but enjoy what is. Once we reach that level of knowledge of true selves, it's merely an opportunity to extend that love which is an automatic side effect of awakening to others and enjoy the form that we find ourselves in. Again, nothing that has to be DONE, but just the act of BEING in our natural state, is love in itself when interacting with others because we are relating to them through our TRUE nature and not the form we confuse ourselves with... "ego".


As smiileyjen101, thank you for sharing E2B.

I sat with your idea of honesty for a while. Something was troubling me though. Funny, perhaps its not romance and egos that has me tied up in a knot but the idea of honesty and egos! Being honest totally with oneself is Truth. Being honest with "another" in the Relative sense is another thing altogether perhaps. "Being honest totally" with oneself doesn't necessarily suggest that we "be honest totally" with another. It may not be the most popular idea, but hear me out.

I can't help but to wonder whether "being honest totally" is infallible; take the example of telling a young child the non-existentence of the "Santa Clause", "Easter Bunny" or any other made-up children characters. Their hearts will be crushed if they realize the truth too early or too young. :( Yes, I do realize this may well be my projection, but we live in a world of social constructs, there is no escaping, even to the Absolute. We don't live in a Relative world of realized individuals only.

As you mentioned, this act of total honesty is very much present and active. We have to be honest with ourselves every moment, every "now". The love is an "automatic side effect" perhaps ONLY because we are honest with ourselves.

It is when we are honest with ourselves, we accept others as themselves - ego and all - which is love.

In a more grown-up example, perhaps your partner is indulging in a talk session of "what is going wrong at work". Instead of wanting our partners to be more "awaken" or "in the now" or anything else, we see their ego, knowing that it is not their true selves and accept their current ego status and allow that talk session to be. We may even want to join in knowing that we are engaging with an ego.
User avatar
TemporalDissonance
 
Posts: 406
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 3:41 am

Re: Romance and the Ego

Postby Enlightened2B » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:51 am

This 'may' throw a spanner in the works. The notion of being 'complete as our true selves', is awry, in my timid and humble opinion. It ain't over till its over, and it ain't ever over! Not that anything's 'missing', just that its always evolving.


What I meant by complete was that I feel "complete" in the sense that I know what I am and there's no actual "need" for another romantically in order to add to that. I am this entire thing/nothing. There is nothing separate in here from me. Everything is just an experience within my true self and for that, life is that much more joyous I feel. My life will forever be evolving through everyone and everything that I interact with. If something leads down the path of what would be perceived as "romantic" such as the situation I find myself in now, then so be it. I agree that we are always evolving. If "source" wanted to experience itself, all it needs is one person and objects and it has experience. However, there is a reason there are 8 billion people on this planet. Inter personal relationships on ANY level are what help evolve Awareness/our true self and extend love to anything and everything in this relative reality.

I don't like to think of relationships as a separate entity because it implies some level of duality, the same as seeing the ego as separate. Everything is a manifestation/experience of my true self, happening inside of what I already am/am not. Relationships are a beautiful process which enable us to exist in this 'relative' reality. Without relationships, we would literally be a state of "nothingness" which is our true nature. Whether it is a relationship with another being or with a chair, they exist as they are with purpose. But, ultimately,there are no true relationships because nothing really exists outside of what we already ARE....If we can see this, actually LIVING and taking PART in the relative world is that much sweeter. Yes, life was meant to live and experience FULLY.


A while back I delightedly watched my daughter and son-in-law absolutely floored looking at their tiny baby daughter and in their gorgeous child-like relating absolutely captivated with the notion - 'we made that, how amazing is that? We actually 'made' that.' The two of them were enthralled by the exponential creativity of it - and yes most parents experience that wonder, and eventually it gets down to tin-tacks of 'who'll change the next nappy', 'how will we teach her this/that and the next thing'. From my vantage point though, I was privileged to witness an aspect of another 'entity' these two in coming together had seeded, birthed and were growing - their relationship. It has as much personality as their baby does.


That's a beautiful story. I have a nephew and a niece who are very young and just the thought that the person I grew up sharing a room with for 21 years (my brother) could produce this is just stunning to me. I don't plan on having children myself....at least not now. I'm 32, so I have some time, but it is a beautiful process.
Enlightened2B
 
Posts: 1859
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 10:51 pm
Location: New York

Re: Romance and the Ego

Postby Enlightened2B » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:58 am

I sat with your idea of honesty for a while. Something was troubling me though. Funny, perhaps its not romance and egos that has me tied up in a knot but the idea of honesty and egos! Being honest totally with oneself is Truth. Being honest with "another" in the Relative sense is another thing altogether perhaps. "Being honest totally" with oneself doesn't necessarily suggest that we "be honest totally" with another. It may not be the most popular idea, but hear me out.

I can't help but to wonder whether "being honest totally" is infallible; take the example of telling a young child the non-existentence of the "Santa Clause", "Easter Bunny" or any other made-up children characters. Their hearts will be crushed if they realize the truth too early or too young. :( Yes, I do realize this may well be my projection, but we live in a world of social constructs, there is no escaping, even to the Absolute. We don't live in a Relative world of realized individuals only.


I think by honesty, I was referring to the notion of being true to ourselves only. When we are true to ourselves....meaning our TRUE selves, we acknowledge our true nature and from there we can choose to approach life with presence rather than with fear or other emotions. By being true to ourselves in that sense, we are essentially being true to "others" in the way we relate to them.


It is when we are honest with ourselves, we accept others as themselves - ego and all - which is love.


And you just summed that up beautifully right there.

In a more grown-up example, perhaps your partner is indulging in a talk session of "what is going wrong at work". Instead of wanting our partners to be more "awaken" or "in the now" or anything else, we see their ego, knowing that it is not their true selves and accept their current ego status and allow that talk session to be. We may even want to join in knowing that we are engaging with an ego.


I totally agree. That's exactly what I have learned myself. It's so easy to want to 'control' the situation. However, I've had to learn the hard way, that you can't "change" others to appeal to what you want them to appear like which is only our own ego. What you are describing is compassion at a very deep level. Beautiful stuff.
Enlightened2B
 
Posts: 1859
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 10:51 pm
Location: New York

Re: Romance and the Ego

Postby tod » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:32 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:In our awakened state meaning we have a clear understanding of what and who we are, we form relationships (platonic, family, etc.) with others because we enjoy their company and feel them as a direct expression of OUR true selves since once again, they ARE us in another physical body. Even people we have NOTHING in common with are often friends with us. There is empathy and compassion automatically in every moment that ego does not show its head. We have an opportunity to extend our love to another by being true to ourselves and in turn, being true to "others". As Jen indicated, honesty is the highest form of love. I think when we are honest with who we are, love is an automatic side effect. It's a blissful feeling, knowing that we ARE the present moment, nothing more and nothing less. I feel the purpose of existence in this human form is to evolve consciousness to the best of our ability. But, once we are there, there's not much else we can do, but enjoy what is. Once we reach that level of knowledge of true selves, it's merely an opportunity to extend that love which is an automatic side effect of awakening to others and enjoy the form that we find ourselves in. Again, nothing that has to be DONE, but just the act of BEING in our natural state, is love in itself when interacting with others because we are relating to them through our TRUE nature and not the form we confuse ourselves with... "ego".

I feel that once we are complete as our true selves, there really is no NEED anymore for 'romance' to complete us as Merlin indicated. It's merely just enjoying this existence and more of an opportunity as TD and others have said all along to express our love fully in the form of just allowing whatever happens to happen. After all, that's all we are and all we can be.


Just lovely E2B. I feel as if you are describing the romance of life. Thank you.
tod
 
Posts: 612
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:25 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Romance and the Ego

Postby TemporalDissonance » Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:16 am

Enlightened2B wrote:
In a more grown-up example, perhaps your partner is indulging in a talk session of "what is going wrong at work". Instead of wanting our partners to be more "awaken" or "in the now" or anything else, we see their ego, knowing that it is not their true selves and accept their current ego status and allow that talk session to be. We may even want to join in knowing that we are engaging with an ego.


I totally agree. That's exactly what I have learned myself. It's so easy to want to 'control' the situation. However, I've had to learn the hard way, that you can't "change" others to appeal to what you want them to appear like which is only our own ego. What you are describing is compassion at a very deep level. Beautiful stuff.


I think we all went through the hard way at some point in our lives, some more than others. Without the "hard way", we wouldn't have come to question. It is part of "human existence" or at least a part of the illusion we call "human existence". This brings forth a question, couldn't this compassion or love to one's partner be extended to all even in the most difficult of situations? We come to see the egoic madness that can be.
User avatar
TemporalDissonance
 
Posts: 406
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 3:41 am

Re: Romance and the Ego

Postby TemporalDissonance » Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:22 am

Enlightened2B wrote:
A while back I delightedly watched my daughter and son-in-law absolutely floored looking at their tiny baby daughter and in their gorgeous child-like relating absolutely captivated with the notion - 'we made that, how amazing is that? We actually 'made' that.' The two of them were enthralled by the exponential creativity of it - and yes most parents experience that wonder, and eventually it gets down to tin-tacks of 'who'll change the next nappy', 'how will we teach her this/that and the next thing'. From my vantage point though, I was privileged to witness an aspect of another 'entity' these two in coming together had seeded, birthed and were growing - their relationship. It has as much personality as their baby does.


That's a beautiful story. I have a nephew and a niece who are very young and just the thought that the person I grew up sharing a room with for 21 years (my brother) could produce this is just stunning to me. I don't plan on having children myself....at least not now. I'm 32, so I have some time, but it is a beautiful process.


Children are nothing short of love itself. :)
This brings another question, are we like the tiny baby we create in the eyes of Truth? Is Truth trying to let us experience what it does? I know this may sounds a little dualistic.
User avatar
TemporalDissonance
 
Posts: 406
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 3:41 am

Re: Romance and the Ego

Postby Enlightened2B » Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:30 am

I think we all went through the hard way at some point in our lives, some more than others. Without the "hard way", we wouldn't have come to question. It is part of "human existence" or at least a part of the illusion we call "human existence". This brings forth a question, couldn't this compassion or love to one's partner be extended to all even in the most difficult of situations? We come to see the egoic madness that can be.


Yes, I agree....which is universal compassion I would believe. I think that's why relationships of any kind are important because of what you describe and this is talked about in the excerpts I read from Conversations with God. The evolution of US which happens via relating with others on all levels. It's how we experience and how we evolve.
Enlightened2B
 
Posts: 1859
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 10:51 pm
Location: New York

Re: Romance and the Ego

Postby Enlightened2B » Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:39 am

Children are nothing short of love itself. :)
This brings another question, are we like the tiny baby we create in the eyes of Truth? Is Truth trying to let us experience what it does? I know this may sounds a little dualistic.


I've always thought of myself having the mind of a toddler :lol:

I guess it could be thought of that way. I mean....I see where you're going here. We're (as Truth) giving birth to "life"...our human forms. Because without this human form, there is literally "nothing". So, essentially, maybe we are babies and we need to evolve through the human experience to the point where we "find" ourselves and then share that love with others. But, are we always these tiny babies? Or only babies compared to actual truth?
Enlightened2B
 
Posts: 1859
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 10:51 pm
Location: New York

Re: Romance and the Ego

Postby TemporalDissonance » Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:17 am

Enlightened2B wrote:I've always thought of myself having the mind of a toddler :lol:

I guess it could be thought of that way. I mean....I see where you're going here. We're (as Truth) giving birth to "life"...our human forms. Because without this human form, there is literally "nothing". So, essentially, maybe we are babies and we need to evolve through the human experience to the point where we "find" ourselves and then share that love with others. But, are we always these tiny babies? Or only babies compared to actual truth?


:lol: That reminds me of the saying "Zen mind, beginners mind".

I was thinking more about the "act of creation". That Truth through itself created us, and thus we create our offsprings in similar fashion with something in "us" relatively. All life are created from another life in this moment on Earth (disregarding how the first life may have been formed scientifically speaking).

As for whether we are tiny babies, perhaps we develop spiritually and collectively as a specie like that developmental path of a child from the viewpoint of Truth. Of course, these are all thoughts and musings. :)
Last edited by TemporalDissonance on Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
TemporalDissonance
 
Posts: 406
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 3:41 am

Re: Romance and the Ego

Postby smiileyjen101 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:32 am

TD said: I sat with your idea of honesty for a while. Something was troubling me though. Funny, perhaps its not romance and egos that has me tied up in a knot but the idea of honesty and egos! Being honest totally with oneself is Truth. Being honest with "another" in the Relative sense is another thing altogether perhaps. "Being honest totally" with oneself doesn't necessarily suggest that we "be honest totally" with another. It may not be the most popular idea, but hear me out.

I can't help but to wonder whether "being honest totally" is infallible; take the example of telling a young child the non-existentence of the "Santa Clause", "Easter Bunny" or any other made-up children characters. Their hearts will be crushed if they realize the truth too early or too young. :( Yes, I do realize this may well be my projection, but we live in a world of social constructs, there is no escaping, even to the Absolute. We don't live in a Relative world of realized individuals only.


Sheessshhh, where was this gem of wisdom last night, me popping bubbles all over the place at a dinner party mwhahahahaha evil laugh!!!

The thing is in what is socially acceptable and what is not, is negotiated in relationship, isn't it?

Eg mouth-me on hearing bigotry and excuses in a mature and intelligent environment is far more likely to disagree and provide relevant examples of different perspectives than silently comply with the lies being told. And the robost discussions can (as well as popping bubbles) open a portal of discovery.

Similarly with children, and with those in 'romantic' relationships examining perspectives opens the door to wider understanding.

In terms of age appropriateness - whose 'version' of Santa is a child adopting into their psyche by societal agreement and parental silence? And what does that mean for the child's view of the world and themselves?
A few possibilities - Coca Cola's 'version' of jolly ole Santa created to associate the 'joy' of Christmas with their product (and increase sales)? A wishful parent's 'version' using Santa to punish or reward behaviour? A shopping centre's version enticing customers in to 'share' the atmosphere and spend money?

For me, far better to ask the child what Santa means for them, and sharing what it might mean for us, and for others.
eg: a child who secretly 'shares' a wish with 'Santa' and is told that it depends on whether they are 'naughty or nice', if they then - for whatever reason - do not have their wish granted could it be possible that they would feel shame and guilt for not being 'nice enough'. Where would this shame come from?
If you type Santa in Fiji into the search box it came up in another discussion some time back.

In terms of romantic or any relating it's amazing what you can learn by asking yourself and others 'why' you think, feel, act etc, rather than assume that cultural or societal biases are truth, or that you already know.


Does this sometimes cause discomfort.. ( :oops: ) absolutely!!!
What seeding, birthing, growing process doesn't?
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com
User avatar
smiileyjen101
 
Posts: 3681
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:44 am

Re: Romance and the Ego

Postby TemporalDissonance » Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:24 am

smiileyjen101 wrote:In terms of romantic or any relating it's amazing what you can learn by asking yourself and others 'why' you think, feel, act etc, rather than assume that cultural or societal biases are truth, or that you already know.


HAhaha! smiileyjen101! You got me there. :) Yes, I see my projection and you are wise to suggest asking ourselves and others "why" they think, feel, act a certain way. Yet, isn't there an element of faith and/or even presumption that everyone involved will be honest at least to themselves if not you, or even know the "why" behind what they think, feel and act? I sense perhaps a continual process of asking "why" or inquiry will finally lead one to the most honest answer possible, but if and only if such openness is in the relationship.
User avatar
TemporalDissonance
 
Posts: 406
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 3:41 am

Re: Romance and the Ego

Postby Enlightened2B » Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:26 am

:lol: That reminds me of the saying "Zen mind, beginners mind".

I was thinking more about the "act of creation". That Truth through itself created us, and thus we create our offsprings in similar fashion with something in "us" relatively. All life are created from another life in this moment on Earth (disregarding how the first life may have been formed scientifically speaking).

As for whether we are tiny babies, perhaps we develop spiritually and collectively as a specie like that developmental path of a child from the viewpoint of Truth. Of course, these are all thoughts and musings. :)


Wow, that's awesome stuff.....in bold. "All life are created from another life in this moment on Earth." So basically, it's just the constant ';act of creation' as you put it. Does creation ever cease?
Enlightened2B
 
Posts: 1859
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 10:51 pm
Location: New York

Re: Romance and the Ego

Postby TemporalDissonance » Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:45 am

Enlightened2B wrote:Wow, that's awesome stuff.....in bold. "All life are created from another life in this moment on Earth." So basically, it's just the constant ';act of creation' as you put it. Does creation ever cease?


Even scientifically speaking, the creation of the first possible biological life on Earth through amino acids can still be seen through this chain of life if we view that the amino acids themselves are created from atoms prior and prior...etc... which all comes from and consists of the Source/Truth. So perhaps the energy of creation is and has always been in everything in the relative world, never ending like a fractal.

*Does anyone know how to add an image?
User avatar
TemporalDissonance
 
Posts: 406
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 3:41 am

Re: Romance and the Ego

Postby Enlightened2B » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:21 pm

TemporalDissonance wrote:
Enlightened2B wrote:Wow, that's awesome stuff.....in bold. "All life are created from another life in this moment on Earth." So basically, it's just the constant ';act of creation' as you put it. Does creation ever cease?


Even scientifically speaking, the creation of the first possible biological life on Earth through amino acids can still be seen through this chain of life if we view that the amino acids themselves are created from atoms prior and prior...etc... which all comes from and consists of the Source/Truth. So perhaps the energy of creation is and has always been in everything in the relative world, never ending like a fractal.

*Does anyone know how to add an image?


That's kind of the direction that Quantum Physics is leaning towards today. Granted, it's just a theory, I think it makes a lot of sense as it incorporates what is OUTSIDE of the physical reality and acknowledges that matter while constituting an objective reality, actually stems from something greater which is non-objective. Therefore, I feel the energy of creation which stems from Source IS and always HAS been in everything in this relative world ultimately.

Edit: Sorry TD....don't know how to post a picture.
Enlightened2B
 
Posts: 1859
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 10:51 pm
Location: New York

PreviousNext

Return to Relationships

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest