Is divorce ever justified to awakend individuals?

Talk about relationships in the context of Spiritual Enlightenment
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Is divorce ever justified to awakend individuals?

Post by jollymon » Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:57 pm

Dear Forum

Now in my 21st year of marriage with 3 kids I find my relationship is the only area of my life that I have challenges that I cannot seem to overcome. I read PON 5 years ago and ANE 3 years ago and both were the most amazing and transformative books I ever read. To realize suddenly that the thinker is not me really changed my entire view on my past (no longer important), present (the only thing that matters) and future (only for planning). From that point to present I have practiced awareness the best I knew how and have slowly evolved to my current state which is a higher awareness than ever before.

My wife does not accepts ET teachings mainly because she is unwilling to read it. While I am not blaming my wife for anything the following is mentioned so you can understand where her awareness level is. She all too often gets upset over trivial things and tries exercise too much control over how are lives should be lived. There is much excess stuff or clutter in our home which I am told not to touch. She is the type of person that gets upset and offended with someone in the service industry for trivial matters. She is the person that will say I don't like or trust this person because of xyz. She can’t stand my family and lets me and the kids know it. She is the worrier and the anxious type. She carries shoulder pain, stomach pain and headaches because of her emptions. Hopefully you can understand a little about this person now.

ET says the body responds to the emotions which are based on the thoughts in your head. I see this totally applying to her and causing her physical suffering. I finally asked her if she realizes the pain is from the emotional burdens she carries. She said yes. Then I asked her if she understands that she is in control of her thoughts and emotions. She said I am the cause of the negative thoughts and emotions. I had suspected that this was the case so I told her that this is not true and that only she is in control of the thoughts and emotions. So far I have not convinced her of this.

My wife points out how ET is not married and has no kids so he does not speak from experience and does not know what he is talking about. She says I should stop reading that garbage and start loving her. There are disagreements almost once a week about how to deal with some situation in our home or our business with me often yielding rather than resisting to her to keep peace. But about once a month when I cannot yield or leave but instead have a need to change it leads to pain for both if us when we cannot work out a resolution. I know this is her pain body speaking of course but she is not aware of this. In general she is a very good person and does not mean harm to me or the kids.

Ever since I have been working on my awareness I have tried to help her become aware also but it has had little effect on her. Therapy has been attempted but she does not like to hear what the therapist says and does no believe they know anything either siting most of them are divorced.

ET advises not to get into a relationship with someone with a heavy pain body. Unbeknownst to me when I got married, I did not have this wisdom. Now that I know my spouse has a heavy pain body how can I justify having a future with someone that will continue to have episodes unless I act perfectly in her opinion or yield to there requests? I strongly believe her pain body density may never change partly because some of the negativity is genetic. Research shows about 50% of a person’s negativity or neuroticism level is passed on. If I knew today her pain body would lessen substantially in 5 years I frankly don’t know I would have an the patience or interest in waiting that long. I know only I can change in dealing with her pain body. I have times where I can manage her pain body and times where I lose that ability. Pain body just exists in every one so it is a matter more dense vs. very light.

Since it is true that ET is not married, how do we really trust his teachings towards our lives are correct? Is there a point when we should make a change in our relationship to leave a (situation) person with a heavy pain body? What is that point? What is the objective in staying in a situation where you knowingly are going to be attacked over and over often for exaggerated, overvalued or falsely perceived reasons? Common sense would tell you to leave that situation if you cannot change it or yield to it and ET advises this too. Yet most of the relationship forums say to look deeper inside you and rise to the challenge of dealing with the other. See the oneness between you and the other. Relationships are here to bring out the awareness in us. Yes all this is true but why do we need it all when we have a choice to have people around us that don’t have such heavy pain bodies? We don’t choose friends with heavy pain bodies and if we are not married or in a relationship now are not going to choose to be with mates if we can see they have heavy pain bodies. Is the only reason to stay in a marriage that is not true love because we made a “commitment” (under false pretenses and lack of discloser in a way since we were not aware when we made those decisions and/or egoic wanting and clinging) or that it will be hard on the children? As ET says the children are also learning from us and having our pain body pass on to them. ET says that the pain body is passed from generation to generation by seeing their parents. Why perpetuate this madness?

Below is the excerpt from PON that makes me ask what ET meant;

“First you stop judging yourself; then you stop judging your partner. The greatest catalyst for change in a relationship is complete acceptance of your partner as he or she is, without needing to judge or change them in any way. That immediately takes you beyond ego. All mind games and all addictive clinging are then over. There are no victims and no perpetrators anymore, no accuser and accused. This is also the end of all codependency, of being drawn into somebody else’s unconscious pattern and thereby enabling it to continue. You will then either separate — in love — or move ever more deeply into the Now together, into Being. Can it be that simple? Yes, it is that simple.”

The part that I find confusing is “You will then either separate in love — or move ever more deeply into the Now together, into Being”. It seems to me the choice is simple yet the forums leave me confused on what to do. Advice like “It takes only one person to be conscious in a relationship” contradicts this message. Is it separate or move into the now together?

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Re: Is divorce ever justified to awakend individuals?

Post by DavidB » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:25 am

Of course awakened individuals can get divorced.

If you can change it, change it, if you can leave it, then leave it, if you can't do either, then accept it totally. You have three choices.

All three have their consequences however, so what matters is whether or not you can deal with the consequences.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

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Re: Is divorce ever justified to awakend individuals?

Post by kiknossya » Fri Aug 29, 2014 1:52 am

The part that I find confusing is “You will then either separate in love — or move ever more deeply into the Now together, into Being”. It seems to me the choice is simple yet the forums leave me confused on what to do. Advice like “It takes only one person to be conscious in a relationship” contradicts this message. Is it separate or move into the now together?
There isn't a prescripted rule. Sometimes it happens that only one person in a relationship is completely in the present, sometimes the changing involves both. You cannot predict nor control how things are going to develop in that way. You shouldn't feel responsible for anything that her pain body tries to trigger. Her life is only hers. You can still stay with her and be the "space" but not in a demanding way. She is not just your "wife", she is more importanrly a human being as you are. Probably she is not ready, embrace this about her. Only when there's true compassion there's true help.

About the fact ET is not married or doesn't have kids it doesn't mean that being married is dysfunctional but it is surely easier to recreate everytime a dysfunctional scheme when we have to relate to a another being as we can't control their awareness level. We have to accept that.

ET says that it's not important what you do but how you do that so if you are prone to divorce from her be conscious that your decision has to be calm and aware. If you want to escape from something that triggers or makes you somehow tired, then you have to see in depth that you are reacting to something that doesn't please you. It's fine to not being pleased with someone who completely identifies in his/her pain body as you two appear to be on two complete different levels. When it that appears to be a blind alley both for you and her and you are conscious about that without expectations or regrets, you will move on in a very healthy way.

As we live in the world of matter everything leads to consequences, when you have to do with an unaware person you have to consider that those consequences are determined on how she is unaware (the more she identifies with her pain body the more a strong reaction could happen - but this is also generalizing).

Take everything as it won't never affect your sacred and always shining part of you. Helping yourself is proportional to helping others.

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Re: Is divorce ever justified to awakend individuals?

Post by dijmart » Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:20 am

Actually, ET has been in a relationship with Kim Eng for many years and calls her his partner. Didn't know if you knew that? Anyways, regarding your own situation, all you can do is get in touch with your true nature, be present and aware more often then not and don't approach your relationship from ego, but just as another human-being to another. Sometimes we think we've left ego behind when really it's still very much there, but now it's a spiritual ego. It sees everyone else's faults and judges them accordingly, then it says if only "they" would stop their behavior I could find peace. This is hogwash, if you want peace you can have it, no one has to change for this, except you. Also, your partners behavior isn't right or wrong , it's just unconscious. She won't awaken, unless or until it's her path/time to do so, trying to force her will just leave you frustrated and her resentful. However, if you just can not accept your situation, as it is any longer, then maybe you should leave, but only you could decide that. Just my 2 cents.
Take what you like and leave the rest.

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Re: Is divorce ever justified to awakend individuals?

Post by far_eastofwest » Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:33 pm

It doesn't really matter what ET has to say if its not working for you.
Your wife has made a clear request "stop reading garbage and start loving her'

So why not?
Firstly calling something you are reading 'garbage' is a judgement and not a logical one. Fact she sees it as garbage is, that it isn't making anything better from her end. So maybe ignore that bit.
Second it might be good to actually DEFINE what she mean by 'loving her'.
What is her definition? Is it deeds (doing the dishes for example), or verbal communication (sitting and asking her about her day, being interested in what she thinks without making judgments or comments). Or is it physical, like little touches, holding hands, a hug that lasts a full 30 seconds. Or is it doing stuff together, going for a walk or a swim together.
See.... ET can't answer that, only she can. You could ask "what sort of things make you feel loved".

People don't like being told what is good for them, they like to find out them selves. Like you did.

If your wife didn 't like the therapists questions, then you didn't have the right therapist. She would want a non confrontational person who is kind and emphatic.

You have disagreements, well that is because you have a mindset that considers when it works out the way she wants it as you are Yeilding.
That is self talk that is going to give you issues straight away. Armies 'yeild' in a war, it doesn't make it sound positive. You could self talk it as "i made a choice to let it go as its not that important to me".
Sounds like you have fallen into the trap of going from husband/partner to wanting to be her teacher, this will cause stress (a parent child relationship doesn't work with adults), and you have 'so far not convinced her' so it sounds like you are going to keep hammering away?

Have you given her a nice shoulder rub lately? You may decide you are not the 'cause' of her emotional stuff but there are things you can take a few minutes for to help her feel better..... And that being said, a person can help another feel better, so they certainly can contribute to them feeling worse.

Your wife actually sounds pretty cool. She is assertive and outspoken on what she thinks about therapists and Et. And you sound nice too.

Instead of having these deep conversations why not try "honey, i'm home, I do love you so sweetie".
"Got another headache, thats a bummer, I hate to see you suffer". (no suggestions for cures/causes just empathy).
When you talk about things you've learned approach it from the way you would if you'd taken up a computer programming course, ie, how it relates to YOU "wow, today I am going to try not to complain about ANYTHING and see how it goes"...... and then if it goes well "gee, i only made it for four hours, but i do feel happier..... how about a cup of tea and you tell me about how your day was". Rather than trying to ram your stuff you are doing down her throat. If what you are doing is working for you then lead by example. There is a definate ripple effect. And the kids will benefit too. Lots of ripples.

Good luck
There is nothing harder to find than a black cat in a dark room
Especially when there is no cat....

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