Love for freedom - i can't have relationships with men

Talk about relationships in the context of Spiritual Enlightenment

Re: Love for freedom - i can't have relationships with men

Postby dijmart » Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:05 pm

imago dei wrote:Why do you feel bad for those men??
I have the feeling is funny for both, our interactions are based on fun and respect (well if there's no respect i go away). Plus, i'm sincere and i say that all i want is just fun and freedom. On my path remain people similar to me, it seems.


Do you find that they want more?...Another words, after a night of flirting, do they ask for your number only for you to disappear into the bathroom never to return? Most people don't want to waste their time on flirting with people who.. A) don't want a relationship and B) don't want sex either. So, if someone's single and they go out in hopes of meeting someone, spend time with you thinking, "hey, she likes me" and after you're like, "see, ya!!" don't you think you're hurting them? That's why I feel bad for them.

You probably think their having fun and they probably are, because at that time, they think they have a chance with you. So, you say that you say to them all you want is fun and freedom, do they know this means they don't have a chance with you...none...or do they think that means they will be able to have an "open relationship" with you. Saying to them you want "fun and freedom" can be mis-interpreted. Try saying the truth- you want to flirt, get attention to boast your self-esteem, then you'll drop them like a hot potato and move on to the next. See how many stick around or respect you then...

Now, my opinion would be different if you were saying you want friendship, but you don't usually flirt with friends and that's not what I hear you saying.
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Re: Love for freedom - i can't have relationships with men

Postby imago dei » Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:50 pm

dijmart wrote:
imago dei wrote:Why do you feel bad for those men??
I have the feeling is funny for both, our interactions are based on fun and respect (well if there's no respect i go away). Plus, i'm sincere and i say that all i want is just fun and freedom. On my path remain people similar to me, it seems.


Do you find that they want more?...Another words, after a night of flirting, do they ask for your number only for you to disappear into the bathroom never to return? Most people don't want to waste their time on flirting with people who.. A) don't want a relationship and B) don't want sex either. So, if someone's single and they go out in hopes of meeting someone, spend time with you thinking, "hey, she likes me" and after you're like, "see, ya!!" don't you think you're hurting them? That's why I feel bad for them.

You probably think their having fun and they probably are, because at that time, they think they have a chance with you. So, you say that you say to them all you want is fun and freedom, do they know this means they don't have a chance with you...none...or do they think that means they will be able to have an "open relationship" with you. Saying to them you want "fun and freedom" can be mis-interpreted. Try saying the truth- you want to flirt, get attention to boast your self-esteem, then you'll drop them like a hot potato and move on to the next. See how many stick around or respect you then...

Now, my opinion would be different if you were saying you want friendship, but you don't usually flirt with friends and that's not what I hear you saying.

Where i'm living guys are very introverted so i really have no idea of what they think of me...sometimes they write me nice things but nothing seems to happen in reality. They stay frozen and passive, what should i do?! Nothing. That's why i have sex like only 2 times a year.
i admit that 95% of times i just flirt with no goals, just to spend some funny time.
For exemple i have a collegue that i adore, he's good looking and we totally understand each other, he told me he likes me too much and i said "i like you too very much, i want to spend some time with you but freedom is too important for me". I told him 2 and i was sincere, i want a rapport him but with no committment. He said nothing, not one single word, how should i interpret it?! I go on my way.
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Re: Love for freedom - i can't have relationships with men

Postby dijmart » Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:23 pm

imago dei wrote:
Where i'm living guys are very introverted so i really have no idea of what they think of me...sometimes they write me nice things but nothing seems to happen in reality. They stay frozen and passive, what should i do?! Nothing. That's why i have sex like only 2 times a year.
i admit that 95% of times i just flirt with no goals, just to spend some funny time.
For exemple i have a collegue that i adore, he's good looking and we totally understand each other, he told me he likes me too much and i said "i like you too very much, i want to spend some time with you but freedom is too important for me". I told him 2 and i was sincere, i want a rapport him but with no committment. He said nothing, not one single word, how should i interpret it?! I go on my way.


Hmm, the guys are introverted, frozen and passive?? Well, not usually here in the U.S. or that hasn't been my experience, so maybe I don't understand the culture in which you live. Also, obviously, you're co-worker wanted a possibility of commitment and that's why he said nothing when you said you want the opposite.
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Re: Love for freedom - i can't have relationships with men

Postby imago dei » Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:37 pm

dijmart wrote:
imago dei wrote:
Where i'm living guys are very introverted so i really have no idea of what they think of me...sometimes they write me nice things but nothing seems to happen in reality. They stay frozen and passive, what should i do?! Nothing. That's why i have sex like only 2 times a year.
i admit that 95% of times i just flirt with no goals, just to spend some funny time.
For exemple i have a collegue that i adore, he's good looking and we totally understand each other, he told me he likes me too much and i said "i like you too very much, i want to spend some time with you but freedom is too important for me". I told him 2 and i was sincere, i want a rapport him but with no committment. He said nothing, not one single word, how should i interpret it?! I go on my way.


Hmm, the guys are introverted, frozen and passive?? Well, not usually here in the U.S. or that hasn't been my experience, so maybe I don't understand the culture in which you live. Also, obviously, you're co-worker wanted a possibility of commitment and that's why he said nothing when you said you want the opposite.

Are you a man or a woman?! It changes a lot, i think...if you're a woman then it could be that youŕe wrong.
Btw yes, here men even at 40 are extremely introverted and they usually express their feelings only by writing, not really face to face, so most times i don't even know what they want or think.
To my co-worker it didn' t clearly say "i don't want a committment", i used the words: i like you very much but in general i'm a person who puts freedom first". I have no idea how he interpreted it, i said it twice coz i don't want to give illusions, he just didn't say one single word.
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Re: Love for freedom - i can't have relationships with men

Postby dijmart » Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:57 pm

imago dei wrote:Are you a man or a woman?! It changes a lot, i think...if you're a woman then it could be that youŕe wrong.
Btw yes, here men even at 40 are extremely introverted and they usually express their feelings only by writing, not really face to face, so most times i don't even know what they want or think.
To my co-worker it didn' t clearly say "i don't want a committment", i used the words: i like you very much but in general i'm a person who puts freedom first". I have no idea how he interpreted it, i said it twice coz i don't want to give illusions, he just didn't say one single word.


A woman, it changes nothing, except you can't flirt with me. What am I wrong about, with what I said, because I'm female?
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Re: Love for freedom - i can't have relationships with men

Postby imago dei » Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:43 pm

dijmart wrote:
imago dei wrote:Are you a man or a woman?! It changes a lot, i think...if you're a woman then it could be that youŕe wrong.
Btw yes, here men even at 40 are extremely introverted and they usually express their feelings only by writing, not really face to face, so most times i don't even know what they want or think.
To my co-worker it didn' t clearly say "i don't want a committment", i used the words: i like you very much but in general i'm a person who puts freedom first". I have no idea how he interpreted it, i said it twice coz i don't want to give illusions, he just didn't say one single word.


A woman, it changes nothing, except you can't flirt with me. What am I wrong about, with what I said, because I'm female?

Because men and women are biolocally and psychologically different, and you're not in their mind, yours are only suppositions. I'd like to know men's opinion about it all.
And usually men like freedom too, so i don't think i hurt them, really (with some exceptions maybe).
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Re: Love for freedom - i can't have relationships with men

Postby dijmart » Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:00 pm

imago dei wrote:
dijmart wrote:
imago dei wrote:Are you a man or a woman?! It changes a lot, i think...if you're a woman then it could be that youŕe wrong.
Btw yes, here men even at 40 are extremely introverted and they usually express their feelings only by writing, not really face to face, so most times i don't even know what they want or think.
To my co-worker it didn' t clearly say "i don't want a committment", i used the words: i like you very much but in general i'm a person who puts freedom first". I have no idea how he interpreted it, i said it twice coz i don't want to give illusions, he just didn't say one single word.


A woman, it changes nothing, except you can't flirt with me. What am I wrong about, with what I said, because I'm female?


Because men and women are biolocally and psychologically different, and you're not in their mind, yours are only suppositions. I'd like to know men's opinion about it all.
And usually men like freedom too, so i don't think i hurt them, really (with some exceptions maybe).


Oh, I see. In the future, post on your OP that it's a thread for "men only", so I don't waste my time again. :roll:
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Re: Love for freedom - i can't have relationships with men

Postby imago dei » Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:19 pm

Because men and women are biolocally and psychologically different, and you're not in their mind, yours are only suppositions. I'd like to know men's opinion about it all.
And usually men like freedom too, so i don't think i hurt them, really (with some exceptions maybe).[/quote]

Oh, I see. In the future, post on your OP that it's a thread for "men only", so I don't waste my time again. :roll:[/quote]
I didn't mean to offend you. You might be right, you probably are, but i think no one better than a man can tell it ;)
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Re: Love for freedom - i can't have relationships with men

Postby Andreas » Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:06 am

Ok, let me give you a point of view by a man. Of course, this is just my personal view - and not representative for the whole male species ;).

In a certain sense, I think both of you are right and, probably, you don't even disagree as much as it currently seems. The point is that it is not just black and white... flirting without intentions to go beyond can be a positive experience but also a negative one. But let me explain:

First situation: Imagine I'm out with friends. We sit at a table in a restaurant/bar and you pass by or you're sitting on the table next to us. We have eye contact, exchange some words, flirt a bit. Still I'm out with my friends and this is what my evening is about. Having fun with my friends. The fact that you are here and we flirt a bit is cool and makes the evening even more intriguing - but that's it. Nothing "bad" happens, if we never meet again or if we exchange numbers and nobody calls. I would have spent the evening like this anyway. I could even occasionally think about "that cool evening when I was out with my friends and flirted with this girl". So it was a positive experience in my mind. Flirting is fun - so no reason not to do it if the situation occurs.

Second situation: We've met before. We flirted, exchanged numbers and we decided to meet again. So this time, I do invest time to meet you. I will be at a place just in order to meet you - not because I'm already there anyway with my friends. But already when exchanging numbers, you knew that you would never be interested in having a relationsship with me (not even an "open" one) nor interested in having sex with me (which, by the way, would be a really bad decision ;)). Still you decide to meet me again. Why? Just because you enjoy the flirt itself and the attention. In contrast, I don't know about this and I actually am interested in at least having sex with you. So we meet again... and flirt again... but nothing happens because you don't want anything to happen. However, I still think you might be interested to take it one step further - because that's what flirting "usually" means. So we meet again, and so on. In this case, the flirting would turn out to be a negative experience in my mind because I actually invested (time+attention) in some interaction because of something which you KNEW you didn't want to - but actually gave the opposite impression to me in order to keep me around.

So that's the big difference... and that's why you should always be honest. There is nothing wrong about "not knowing yet" or "not being sure". That's perfectly fine. But IF you are sure about something and IF you know something - then make it clear to the other person and make sure that he does not get a wrong impression - or, even worse, purposely mislead the other person.

Now, having said this, I don't think that the last thing is what you are actually doing. Actually I guess both of you will agree with my points - and that's why I think you have some kind of a misunderstanding. According to your previous posts, you actually are indeed interested in some kind of open relationship or whatever. So flirting with somebody when getting to know the person is perfectly fine. Flirting after having stated that you want your freedom and nothing totally serious is perfectly fine. Flirting while figuring out whether the person would be a suitable candidate for an open relationship is perfectly fine. Flirting while meeting the other person on a 3rd date and still not being sure is perfectly fine. Losing interest afterwards is absolutely fine. Only then, after you lost interest, I think still flirting with the other person would not be the right thing to do because you give false hopes to the other person. And yes, in that case, I would consider it a waste of time if I was the other person.

But from what I understand, this doesn't seem to apply for you, does it?

Oh, and considering the other thing: It's partially true. German guys are definitely more passive than guys from other countries, especially if you compare it to mediterran, such as, for example, Italy. I'm not completely sure how it compares to US, but my guess would be that US guys are somewhere in between. I guess you will have to learn to be even clearer in what you say - for example "I would be interested in having an open relationship with you." instead of "I need my freedom.", which can basically mean anything and might have just totally confused your colleague. Also being a bit more active yourself can of course be a solution as well. Stating/Taking what you want instead of giving hints and hoping for the other one to give it to you can help.
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