Love for freedom - i can't have relationships with men

Talk about relationships in the context of Spiritual Enlightenment

Re: Love for freedom - i can't have relationships with men

Postby imago dei » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:38 pm

I have to add something very important, so you can understand me better, i guess.
Everyday exemples: when i'm home, i like listening to my fav music 100000 times a day;
- my flat is not always complitely clean, sometimes i just stay on the sofa and do nothing, in my spare time;
- i love spending money when i have the chance;
- i do "crazy" things sometimes like painting things with strange colors, personalize my flat and all my things, chatting with my best friends for hours...
Well, i become totally mad and i could even "kill" (i'm joking of course) when someone makes me stress telling me what to do what not to do, you're lazy you should do this and that, you're too silly you bought a useless object, its wrong to do this or to do that...
Well, this is the point, this is what makes me totally out of mind and my worst nightmare :evil: :evil: :evil:
That kind of persons are what i avoid more than everything, like friends, partners or whatever...that's what i don't want and that's why i mostly avoid relationships!!!!
Sex comes after that. As i already said i love flirting with jokes but 90% of times it doesn't lead to sex (escpecially in this period, it's long time that i don't have adventures).
It should be clearer now ;)
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Re: Love for freedom - i can't have relationships with men

Postby Enlightened2B » Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:51 am

imago dei wrote:
Enlightened2B wrote:Wow, two people meeting on a Eckhart Tolle Internet forum. Now that's awesome!

It's not as you may think.


I wasn't implying sex or anything like that. I just think it's really cool that two people can connect over an internet forum.
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Re: Love for freedom - i can't have relationships with men

Postby imago dei » Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:16 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:
imago dei wrote:
Enlightened2B wrote:Wow, two people meeting on a Eckhart Tolle Internet forum. Now that's awesome!

It's not as you may think.


I wasn't implying sex or anything like that. I just think it's really cool that two people can connect over an internet forum.

Don't make movies from little things ;)
Who knows, maybe we'll drink a coffee together, maybe not. Let's stay into the reality.
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Re: Love for freedom - i can't have relationships with men

Postby imago dei » Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:28 pm

Sorry that i'm like a river today, but i want to be as clearer as possible. I would summarize the whole thing with this, i thought about it a lot:

- i hate people who judge, control and "dominate" me telling me what to do (in my private life, not at work)...if i lay on the sofa then someone who tells you "lazy, you should clean up the kitchen!" and stuff like that (i think you get what i mean);

- i like looking "reachable" to men, i have no idea why, but i like letting them know that i'm "single" and i don't like being seen with the company of a man - i love being single and i don't want to change my condition, and i don't even want to have lots of sexual adventures (maybe only a couple a year), i just like looking "reachable" to their eyes and play with it. I remember i was like that also at 15 anyway, now i'm almost 29 but still it's my favourite hobby.
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Re: Love for freedom - i can't have relationships with men

Postby Andreas » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:11 pm

Let me say, you're an extremely intelligent person and i like the way you don't judge me - when i try to talk about these topics with real life friends they start labelling me - i hate it.


Thanks for your kind words ;).

You read my own thoughts. You asked me the same questions i often ask myself. I explain: i often ask myself if an "open relationship" would be a solution but i'm not really sure. Deep inside of my heart i feel the need of:
- being free to flirt and having adventures once a while;
- having someone who understands my point of view, who shares the same vision of life, who helps me and support me (and vice versa, of course);
- having separate lives and houses, i wouldn't like to share every single day and everything with him.


I think we're getting much closer to the core now :).
Those three points are already much more precise than the vague term "open relationship". Still, the same thing holds: Obviously, at some point, you have to communicate this to a potential partner. But communicating it like this, knowing what exactly you want and what you don't want, will be way easier (and more helpful to the guy) than just vaguely stating "I need my feedom".
There is still one thing about the 2nd point which might be a bit problematic - but I'll come back to this later. Just keep it in mind for the moment.

You told me i should immediately that i want an "open relationship", but sometimes at the beginning i say "maybe he's the right person and i feel the need of having everything from him"...but unfortunately it never happens, i don't feel strong feelings, only attraction & sympathy, probably. So i get confused, and the guy too.


Oh, "immediately" is such a strong word here. I'd be surprised if I used it like this. Yes, being open and honest is important and fair, but of course there is no need to "rush" into things. I suppose you can imagine that it might seem a bit odd to some poeple if you kept running around starting conversations with others by telling "Hi, I'm Imago Dei. I look for someone who ... but does not ..." etc. Of course this was exaggerated, but I guess you get what I mean. There is nothing wrong with approaching a new person with the thought of "Hey, maybe it will be like this, maybe it won't - let's just see what happens.". I mean how could you even know for sure, before you get to know him better? Naturally, at some point you will start talking about each others points of view, expectations, and when this is the case, just remember to be open and honest. Still, there is no reason to push him away or to rule out one thing or the other - things always can change and assuming that at any point you know something for sure makes you probably end up being wrong by itself ;). It's perfectly fine *not* to know exactly where something will lead and to state this, e.g. something in the sense of what you just said like "Actually I want ... and I don't want ... but sometimes I feel that maybe, if I meet the right person, I will want ... but usually it does not happen ... so I don't think it will, but honestly, I don't know." As long as things "feel right" at the moment and you're not "harming" him in some way and you're openly telling the truth about what you currently feel - how could the situation be "not right" as it is in that present moment?

Since i was a child i had the feeling i fall in love with "unreachable" people, then when i reach them, i become bored (it always happened to me).
My mother totally abandoned me at the age of 15, and i became extremely unsecure and dependant, from 15 to 24 i should have necessarily a boyfriend and affection coz i felt too lonely in this world (i had borderline disorder). Then i woke up at 24 (my rebirth after years of spiritual research), moved to Germany alone with my daughter and here i am now at 29.
This is how i feel: from my birth till 15 i was full of life and had lot of friends and fun, from 15 to 24 death of my soul, then at 24 i turned back to be that happy and extroverted child (as i am now). As child i was always rebel, only friends and plays counted. I'm kinda the same way now, i love social life and no one has to tell me what to do ;))


You remember when I just wrote I will come back to the 2nd point of your list? Now I will. You said you would like someone who helps you and supports you. Usually this is not too difficult to find. That what partners who care about you naturally do. However, the "problem" with those people - the people who care about you - is that they are, well, "reachable" by definition. They guy who write you a SMS asking if everything is alright because he didn't here from you, probably wants to support you. Unfortunately, this kind of things provoke this strong reaction in you, which makes you feel "suffocated" and you might end up pushing them away. So again, I think it might be really important for you to understand and to find a better way of dealing with this feeling of yours.

Actually, I also think the story you just told about your past already gives some insights into what might be going on. I'm no psychologist, nor do I have any qualification in this field - so take everything I write with care and don't assume it to be a professional medical advice in any way. Still, I want to write some thoughts on it because maybe something will point you into some direction which can in some way be useful for you. I have a friend who suffers from Borderline and I've read quite some articles on the topic - and the behaviours and character traits I've witnessed and/or read about go into similar directions to some of the things you mention. Especially the "pushing away people who care" is a very typical thing and the reason for this is never "logic" but always a very strong emotional feeling (fitting to your description of "suffocated"). You write about your Borderline Disorder in the past tense, so if I get it correctly, you say you stopped suffering from it when you woke up spiritually with 24. I once read an interesting article by a psychotherapist named Mike Leary on Quora about Borderline (I'm sure it's easy to find it there - if not, I can dig it up for you, if you are interested and want me to). He answered a question on whether/how Borderline can be cured and started his text with the following paragraph:

"Recover Yes, Be cured, No. There is a HUGE difference and many people don't seem to know what that is. A cure is to never think about it again. It is an aspect of their life they put behind them. Gone. Recovery is about learning to manage an issue so it doesn't contaminate other parts of your life any more."

... before he then goes more into detail why he thinks this is the case and how you can recover from it.

So why do I bring this up here? Because this thing, this feeling that troubles you so much, might be due to your suffering in the past. Although you're now "well" again in the sense of "being able to live a normal life", this doesn't mean that there cannot be things that still haunt you. Eckhart Tolle maybe would formulate it by stating that the things you lived through in your years from 15-24 have become part of your pain body. For me, it seems to make perfect sense. After all, trying to see the situation from a purely emotional point of view, wouldn't it seem to be the better thing to push people who care away before those people can push you away/abandon you in the same way as your mother did?

Again, don't get me wrong please. I don't want to judge you in any way by writing something like this nor do I also want to label you in any way. And if you really did not want people caring about you in your life, then this would be also perfectly fine. I just have this feeling that actually you DO want people who care and this strong negative feeling you often get just makes you suffer yourself. So what if you end up realizing that this feeling is actually not you and also does not define you but is just a remainder of something from the past which you don't need anymore? So what if you could conciously decide on whether you want to connect on a deeper level with someone instead? Wouldn't that be cool ;)? I might be totally wrong, however - and I have to admit, I was hesitating a bit to write all the things I have written. But after all, it's just some thoughts... a pointer into some direction... maybe there is something in it which you use for yourself, maybe there's not... in the end, it's YOU who decides.

Yes i'm living in Leipzig, let me know when you're going to drink a coffee with me...don't be afraid, i won't try to flirt with you, i do that only on saturday night ;D


Oh, and in case you're still interested in having that coffee after all ... I have this vague feeling that I will only be free on a Saturday evening... so I guess there's no other way than accepting the fact that we will have to deal with this "unpleasant" flirting thing ;)...
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Re: Love for freedom - i can't have relationships with men

Postby imago dei » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:55 pm

Andreas wrote:
Let me say, you're an extremely intelligent person and i like the way you don't judge me - when i try to talk about these topics with real life friends they start labelling me - i hate it.


Thanks for your kind words ;).

You read my own thoughts. You asked me the same questions i often ask myself. I explain: i often ask myself if an "open relationship" would be a solution but i'm not really sure. Deep inside of my heart i feel the need of:
- being free to flirt and having adventures once a while;
- having someone who understands my point of view, who shares the same vision of life, who helps me and support me (and vice versa, of course);
- having separate lives and houses, i wouldn't like to share every single day and everything with him.


I think we're getting much closer to the core now :).
Those three points are already much more precise than the vague term "open relationship". Still, the same thing holds: Obviously, at some point, you have to communicate this to a potential partner. But communicating it like this, knowing what exactly you want and what you don't want, will be way easier (and more helpful to the guy) than just vaguely stating "I need my feedom".
There is still one thing about the 2nd point which might be a bit problematic - but I'll come back to this later. Just keep it in mind for the moment.

You told me i should immediately that i want an "open relationship", but sometimes at the beginning i say "maybe he's the right person and i feel the need of having everything from him"...but unfortunately it never happens, i don't feel strong feelings, only attraction & sympathy, probably. So i get confused, and the guy too.


Oh, "immediately" is such a strong word here. I'd be surprised if I used it like this. Yes, being open and honest is important and fair, but of course there is no need to "rush" into things. I suppose you can imagine that it might seem a bit odd to some poeple if you kept running around starting conversations with others by telling "Hi, I'm Imago Dei. I look for someone who ... but does not ..." etc. Of course this was exaggerated, but I guess you get what I mean. There is nothing wrong with approaching a new person with the thought of "Hey, maybe it will be like this, maybe it won't - let's just see what happens.". I mean how could you even know for sure, before you get to know him better? Naturally, at some point you will start talking about each others points of view, expectations, and when this is the case, just remember to be open and honest. Still, there is no reason to push him away or to rule out one thing or the other - things always can change and assuming that at any point you know something for sure makes you probably end up being wrong by itself ;). It's perfectly fine *not* to know exactly where something will lead and to state this, e.g. something in the sense of what you just said like "Actually I want ... and I don't want ... but sometimes I feel that maybe, if I meet the right person, I will want ... but usually it does not happen ... so I don't think it will, but honestly, I don't know." As long as things "feel right" at the moment and you're not "harming" him in some way and you're openly telling the truth about what you currently feel - how could the situation be "not right" as it is in that present moment?

Since i was a child i had the feeling i fall in love with "unreachable" people, then when i reach them, i become bored (it always happened to me).
My mother totally abandoned me at the age of 15, and i became extremely unsecure and dependant, from 15 to 24 i should have necessarily a boyfriend and affection coz i felt too lonely in this world (i had borderline disorder). Then i woke up at 24 (my rebirth after years of spiritual research), moved to Germany alone with my daughter and here i am now at 29.
This is how i feel: from my birth till 15 i was full of life and had lot of friends and fun, from 15 to 24 death of my soul, then at 24 i turned back to be that happy and extroverted child (as i am now). As child i was always rebel, only friends and plays counted. I'm kinda the same way now, i love social life and no one has to tell me what to do ;))


You remember when I just wrote I will come back to the 2nd point of your list? Now I will. You said you would like someone who helps you and supports you. Usually this is not too difficult to find. That what partners who care about you naturally do. However, the "problem" with those people - the people who care about you - is that they are, well, "reachable" by definition. They guy who write you a SMS asking if everything is alright because he didn't here from you, probably wants to support you. Unfortunately, this kind of things provoke this strong reaction in you, which makes you feel "suffocated" and you might end up pushing them away. So again, I think it might be really important for you to understand and to find a better way of dealing with this feeling of yours.

Actually, I also think the story you just told about your past already gives some insights into what might be going on. I'm no psychologist, nor do I have any qualification in this field - so take everything I write with care and don't assume it to be a professional medical advice in any way. Still, I want to write some thoughts on it because maybe something will point you into some direction which can in some way be useful for you. I have a friend who suffers from Borderline and I've read quite some articles on the topic - and the behaviours and character traits I've witnessed and/or read about go into similar directions to some of the things you mention. Especially the "pushing away people who care" is a very typical thing and the reason for this is never "logic" but always a very strong emotional feeling (fitting to your description of "suffocated"). You write about your Borderline Disorder in the past tense, so if I get it correctly, you say you stopped suffering from it when you woke up spiritually with 24. I once read an interesting article by a psychotherapist named Mike Leary on Quora about Borderline (I'm sure it's easy to find it there - if not, I can dig it up for you, if you are interested and want me to). He answered a question on whether/how Borderline can be cured and started his text with the following paragraph:

"Recover Yes, Be cured, No. There is a HUGE difference and many people don't seem to know what that is. A cure is to never think about it again. It is an aspect of their life they put behind them. Gone. Recovery is about learning to manage an issue so it doesn't contaminate other parts of your life any more."

... before he then goes more into detail why he thinks this is the case and how you can recover from it.

So why do I bring this up here? Because this thing, this feeling that troubles you so much, might be due to your suffering in the past. Although you're now "well" again in the sense of "being able to live a normal life", this doesn't mean that there cannot be things that still haunt you. Eckhart Tolle maybe would formulate it by stating that the things you lived through in your years from 15-24 have become part of your pain body. For me, it seems to make perfect sense. After all, trying to see the situation from a purely emotional point of view, wouldn't it seem to be the better thing to push people who care away before those people can push you away/abandon you in the same way as your mother did?

Again, don't get me wrong please. I don't want to judge you in any way by writing something like this nor do I also want to label you in any way. And if you really did not want people caring about you in your life, then this would be also perfectly fine. I just have this feeling that actually you DO want people who care and this strong negative feeling you often get just makes you suffer yourself. So what if you end up realizing that this feeling is actually not you and also does not define you but is just a remainder of something from the past which you don't need anymore? So what if you could conciously decide on whether you want to connect on a deeper level with someone instead? Wouldn't that be cool ;)? I might be totally wrong, however - and I have to admit, I was hesitating a bit to write all the things I have written. But after all, it's just some thoughts... a pointer into some direction... maybe there is something in it which you use for yourself, maybe there's not... in the end, it's YOU who decides.

Yes i'm living in Leipzig, let me know when you're going to drink a coffee with me...don't be afraid, i won't try to flirt with you, i do that only on saturday night ;D


Oh, and in case you're still interested in having that coffee after all ... I have this vague feeling that I will only be free on a Saturday evening... so I guess there's no other way than accepting the fact that we will have to deal with this "unpleasant" flirting thing ;)...

Again one interesting post of yours, but i have to say this time i don't agree much. Of course you can't know me a lot.
It's important now to say: i don't push away all "dear people" of my life, not at all, with my friends and best friends i'm like a little dog who jumps for happiness when i see them. I'm never tired of the contact with them and not one single time i feel like "suffocated". Friends'company is never enough for me, i'm a very social person.
Then again a partner would make me feel very uncomfortable, coz of the feeling of being controlled. I also think you didn't read everything i wrote: i also wrote i feel a strange pleasure at the idea of looking "reachable" to me, that's why i never go out with a guy, i feel comfortable at looking "reachable" to mens'eyes. But why??! I have no idea. I find it so funny to play with them, it's like a drug (of course not everywhere and everytime, only in some contexts).
You know what?? My parents, both, are exactly like me, they never wanted to have a family and never had "feste Beziehungen"....i even read an article which claims there is a "gene" of being single....i mean, it might be a genetic reason. Believe me or not, i feel so damn happy with having no strings attached, and my parents at 50-52 are still like that. Fortunately i have friends that i love more than everything, and every single day i tell them "i would die without you".
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Re: Love for freedom - i can't have relationships with men

Postby Andreas » Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:51 pm

Again one interesting post of yours, but i have to say this time i don't agree much. Of course you can't know me a lot.
It's important now to say: i don't push away all "dear people" of my life, not at all, with my friends and best friends i'm like a little dog who jumps for happiness when i see them. I'm never tired of the contact with them and not one single time i feel like "suffocated". Friends'company is never enough for me, i'm a very social person.
Then again a partner would make me feel very uncomfortable, coz of the feeling of being controlled. I also think you didn't read everything i wrote: i also wrote i feel a strange pleasure at the idea of looking "reachable" to me, that's why i never go out with a guy, i feel comfortable at looking "reachable" to mens'eyes. But why??! I have no idea. I find it so funny to play with them, it's like a drug (of course not everywhere and everytime, only in some contexts).
You know what?? My parents, both, are exactly like me, they never wanted to have a family and never had "feste Beziehungen"....i even read an article which claims there is a "gene" of being single....i mean, it might be a genetic reason. Believe me or not, i feel so damn happy with having no strings attached, and my parents at 50-52 are still like that. Fortunately i have friends that i love more than everything, and every single day i tell them "i would die without you".


Oh, ok. It seems I wrongly got the impression that it happens with friends too - in the sense that you easily get this feeling they want to control you. Well, anyway, as I said - you decide what's in my text for you and what is not.

Yeah, the thing with the pleasure of looking "reachable" was new. But is it really that strange? If men didn't think you were reachable, they'd probably be less likely to hit on you/flirt with you. And since flirting/playing with them is your drug, well... ;). Or did your "But why?" rather refer to why this feels like a drug for you? Well, in that case: What does it do to you? How do you feel when they are flirting with you? Can you compare it with how it feels if they don't?

Concerning your parents: I don't think there is a "gene" of being single. However, I do believe that the behaviour of the parents affects the behaviour of a child a lot because a child, even when (or particularly when) where young, unconciously adopts many patterns from its parents while growing up - so yes, there is probably a connection.

Oh, I *do* believe you that having no strings attached can feel really good. No doubt. I just understood the catch was that on some level you also wanted at least some kind of strings - well, not "strings", but rather "a connection" in the sense of somebody supporting you and caring about you, someone to have a well, "long-term" relationship with - or at least more than 2-3-4 meetings... but somehow it does not fully work and therefore you're not "damn happy" in total. I thought this was also what your topic was about in the first place. Maybe I got you totally wrong on this one. Did I?
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Re: Love for freedom - i can't have relationships with men

Postby imago dei » Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:33 pm

Andreas wrote:
Again one interesting post of yours, but i have to say this time i don't agree much. Of course you can't know me a lot.
It's important now to say: i don't push away all "dear people" of my life, not at all, with my friends and best friends i'm like a little dog who jumps for happiness when i see them. I'm never tired of the contact with them and not one single time i feel like "suffocated". Friends'company is never enough for me, i'm a very social person.
Then again a partner would make me feel very uncomfortable, coz of the feeling of being controlled. I also think you didn't read everything i wrote: i also wrote i feel a strange pleasure at the idea of looking "reachable" to me, that's why i never go out with a guy, i feel comfortable at looking "reachable" to mens'eyes. But why??! I have no idea. I find it so funny to play with them, it's like a drug (of course not everywhere and everytime, only in some contexts).
You know what?? My parents, both, are exactly like me, they never wanted to have a family and never had "feste Beziehungen"....i even read an article which claims there is a "gene" of being single....i mean, it might be a genetic reason. Believe me or not, i feel so damn happy with having no strings attached, and my parents at 50-52 are still like that. Fortunately i have friends that i love more than everything, and every single day i tell them "i would die without you".


Oh, ok. It seems I wrongly got the impression that it happens with friends too - in the sense that you easily get this feeling they want to control you. Well, anyway, as I said - you decide what's in my text for you and what is not.

Yeah, the thing with the pleasure of looking "reachable" was new. But is it really that strange? If men didn't think you were reachable, they'd probably be less likely to hit on you/flirt with you. And since flirting/playing with them is your drug, well... ;). Or did your "But why?" rather refer to why this feels like a drug for you? Well, in that case: What does it do to you? How do you feel when they are flirting with you? Can you compare it with how it feels if they don't?

Concerning your parents: I don't think there is a "gene" of being single. However, I do believe that the behaviour of the parents affects the behaviour of a child a lot because a child, even when (or particularly when) where young, unconciously adopts many patterns from its parents while growing up - so yes, there is probably a connection.

Oh, I *do* believe you that having no strings attached can feel really good. No doubt. I just understood the catch was that on some level you also wanted at least some kind of strings - well, not "strings", but rather "a connection" in the sense of somebody supporting you and caring about you, someone to have a well, "long-term" relationship with - or at least more than 2-3-4 meetings... but somehow it does not fully work and therefore you're not "damn happy" in total. I thought this was also what your topic was about in the first place. Maybe I got you totally wrong on this one. Did I?

The topic get always more complicated, i have to say. I still have no clear ideas sometimes. Anyway i try to say more:
- i dislike being oppressed in general, by acquitances, relatives, friends, guys....i mean, i dislike that kind of persons who like judging others and being TOO instrusive. But i rarely have problems with friends -till they don't exagerate- i am every day in contact with them and they're never enough for me. I'm very passionate with them and give them all my love.
- i can't exactly explain why, but i find flirting just extremely funny, like looking a funny movie and so on...it makes me feel light and a bit silly, i need it since i have too be very "serious" in the society...you know Germany better than me ;) But i was always like this, loved being a bit crazy at parties (and i'm NOT saying i like having adventures with everyone, not at all, i mean flirting and joking, being called at the phone, receiving attention);
- on one hand i'd like to find a special man who loves me and supports me, but he should give me lot of freedom to be, to live and experience (also my "Hobby" of flirting). But im 29, and till today i've always felt suffocated that i have to go away....in these days i have a collegue who is very nice and we have many points in common, i also find him attractive but i never flirt at work....i don't want to flirt with him coz i KNOW that my interest will last 3 or 4 meetings, and then the feeling of being oppressed and the dark mood comes back. Always. I just gave it up, i know it works that way.
Yes, both my parents and even other relatives are exactly like me, almost everyone is single in my family, we never had a traditional family, it's just something stranger for me.
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Re: Love for freedom - i can't have relationships with men

Postby imago dei » Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:43 pm

@ Andreas: you asked me if that mechanism makes me suffer or not, with other words. I can tell you: at the moment the answer is NO, i feel young enough and i don't want to change for a while, at least NOW i feel good the way i live.
Im here to ask why, why all those mechanisms??! Sometimes i feel like an alien, the majority of people is always looking for someone to love and to live with. I would like to know why does it feel so good to flirt with men and why a partner would give me only negative feelings (as in my experiences). Help me with it if you can ;)
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Re: Love for freedom - i can't have relationships with men

Postby Andreas » Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:39 am

Oh, well, if it feels good the way you live, then that's actually pretty cool ;).

But ok, I think I can now understand what you mean. It feels right... but it's still confusing, because almost everybody else seems to want the opposite. That makes sense... it definitely can be confusing to see the majority of people acting in a different way. I guess that's normal and actually that's a good thing because like this we can learn from other people. Often there actually *is* a good reason why a majority acts in a certain way. "Confusing" in this sense means that you start to think about things and take a closer look on whether we are on a healthy way or a destructive one.

In the particular case of "relationships" I would not give too much on what other people do. Did you check out the link to the other thread about "open relationships" which I gave some posts ago? I think this fits very well to this particular topic, because we discussed why "society" (which means the majority of people) might have certain expectations and points of view rather corresponding to the traditional, monogamous family life. In my opinion, for many people, this was never a concious choice but they just adopted their belief from it. So if you conciously decide that you would prefer another way, then this is definitely the better choice for you.

And "why" are you different in this aspect? Well, nobody can tell you. I can, however, tell why you find flirting exremely fun. Because it IS extremely fun ;).

But maybe one more mind experiment which could be interesting: You write that you can have lots of contact with your friends - could see them every day - and would not mind that. While, on the other hand, you always are fed up with potential partners after few meetings. Now, assume for a minute you would start having sex on a regular basis with one of your friends - apart from this, everything will be exactly the same as before between the two of you. Would your feeling change? Would you start to feel uncomfortable seeing the person or could you still see him/her equally often in the long run?
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Re: Love for freedom - i can't have relationships with men

Postby imago dei » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:33 am

Andreas wrote:Oh, well, if it feels good the way you live, then that's actually pretty cool ;).

But ok, I think I can now understand what you mean. It feels right... but it's still confusing, because almost everybody else seems to want the opposite. That makes sense... it definitely can be confusing to see the majority of people acting in a different way. I guess that's normal and actually that's a good thing because like this we can learn from other people. Often there actually *is* a good reason why a majority acts in a certain way. "Confusing" in this sense means that you start to think about things and take a closer look on whether we are on a healthy way or a destructive one.

In the particular case of "relationships" I would not give too much on what other people do. Did you check out the link to the other thread about "open relationships" which I gave some posts ago? I think this fits very well to this particular topic, because we discussed why "society" (which means the majority of people) might have certain expectations and points of view rather corresponding to the traditional, monogamous family life. In my opinion, for many people, this was never a concious choice but they just adopted their belief from it. So if you conciously decide that you would prefer another way, then this is definitely the better choice for you.

And "why" are you different in this aspect? Well, nobody can tell you. I can, however, tell why you find flirting exremely fun. Because it IS extremely fun ;).

But maybe one more mind experiment which could be interesting: You write that you can have lots of contact with your friends - could see them every day - and would not mind that. While, on the other hand, you always are fed up with potential partners after few meetings. Now, assume for a minute you would start having sex on a regular basis with one of your friends - apart from this, everything will be exactly the same as before between the two of you. Would your feeling change? Would you start to feel uncomfortable seeing the person or could you still see him/her equally often in the long run?

Yes, you understood my point ;) I ask myself every day why the hell i am this way, so "different" from others. It's just nothing else than curiosity.
And i already did that "experiment" to have sex with a friend, 2 times...once worked perfectly and we still have a wonderful rapport, with love and respect (he lives now in another nation), the other time unfortunately not, i was happy with it but he didn't....at one point he became kinda hostile, did voluntary something against me like letting me wait for him for hours and he didn't come, he didn't want sex anymore but sent me daily SMS. Then again, for me that kind of "friendship + sex" is ideal, i can give all the best of me in that kind of rapport, coz i feel "loved" but free at the same time. I have no doubts that it's the best option for me. But in my experience most times it ends up in a badly way, i tried it other times but the guys became hostile, there's nothing i can do :/
Having a "true partner" makes me feel too oppressed at the moment, i can't do that, it would be like raping my own soul. I need air and freedom in my life, it's more important than everything else (even financially i would gain a lot with a partner, i don't have much money but i don't care at all, freedom and wellness are way more important, i won't sell myself for money).
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Re: Love for freedom - i can't have relationships with men

Postby Andreas » Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:08 pm

Yes, you understood my point ;) I ask myself every day why the hell i am this way, so "different" from others. It's just nothing else than curiosity.

Tell me once you figure it out - I'm still wondering the same sometimes ;).

And i already did that "experiment" to have sex with a friend, 2 times...once worked perfectly and we still have a wonderful rapport, with love and respect (he lives now in another nation), the other time unfortunately not, i was happy with it but he didn't....at one point he became kinda hostile, did voluntary something against me like letting me wait for him for hours and he didn't come, he didn't want sex anymore but sent me daily SMS. Then again, for me that kind of "friendship + sex" is ideal, i can give all the best of me in that kind of rapport, coz i feel "loved" but free at the same time.


Isn't it a bit pessimistic to say "It just doesn't work." if it worked in 1 out of 2 cases ;)?

Yea, it can go wrong. Usually because the other person starts to "want more" and is not fine with the situation anymore - which can happen even if you clearly stated your point of view in the beginning and even if both of you agreed on it. That's life. That's people. But I think it's worth a try. There are no bad intentions, there is a positive connection in the sense of closeness and sex, and there *is* the chance that it does work and you end up with a really cool "relationship" (I don't mean "relationship" in the common sense of being a couple with this but just in the literal meaning of 2 people relating to each other in some way...) and, as you pointed out, feeling "loved" and "free" at the same time.

Anyway, the reason why I asked you was slightly different. Actually I was less interested in the guys' reaction but in your emotional state in those situations and I find your answer pretty interesting. So now we have different situations: 1.) You meet a guy, get to know him, maybe only have the intention to have a "non-serious"/open relationship, but still start to feel suffocated after some meetings. 2.) You have a good friend, no problem with seeing him really frequently over a long time, decide to additionally have sex with him and, well, feel perfectly fine with doing so.

But from a pragmatic perspective: Shouldn't both situations be exactly the same thing? Both situations imply "non-serious" relationship, seeing each other, freedom, flirting+sex with others allowed, being loved and free at the same time. So do you have any idea what it is, that makes it feel different for you whether the guy has been a long-time friend before or whether you just meet the guy with this particular intention of having some "romantic" interaction? Do you think that it could help you in some way, if you just considered every new acquaintanceship as "a nice guy you would like to become friends with" and then at some point decide intuitively whether additionally having sex is an option, removing the presure from the interaction?
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Re: Love for freedom - i can't have relationships with men

Postby imago dei » Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:34 pm

Andreas wrote:
Yes, you understood my point ;) I ask myself every day why the hell i am this way, so "different" from others. It's just nothing else than curiosity.

Tell me once you figure it out - I'm still wondering the same sometimes ;).

And i already did that "experiment" to have sex with a friend, 2 times...once worked perfectly and we still have a wonderful rapport, with love and respect (he lives now in another nation), the other time unfortunately not, i was happy with it but he didn't....at one point he became kinda hostile, did voluntary something against me like letting me wait for him for hours and he didn't come, he didn't want sex anymore but sent me daily SMS. Then again, for me that kind of "friendship + sex" is ideal, i can give all the best of me in that kind of rapport, coz i feel "loved" but free at the same time.


Isn't it a bit pessimistic to say "It just doesn't work." if it worked in 1 out of 2 cases ;)?

Yea, it can go wrong. Usually because the other person starts to "want more" and is not fine with the situation anymore - which can happen even if you clearly stated your point of view in the beginning and even if both of you agreed on it. That's life. That's people. But I think it's worth a try. There are no bad intentions, there is a positive connection in the sense of closeness and sex, and there *is* the chance that it does work and you end up with a really cool "relationship" (I don't mean "relationship" in the common sense of being a couple with this but just in the literal meaning of 2 people relating to each other in some way...) and, as you pointed out, feeling "loved" and "free" at the same time.

Anyway, the reason why I asked you was slightly different. Actually I was less interested in the guys' reaction but in your emotional state in those situations and I find your answer pretty interesting. So now we have different situations: 1.) You meet a guy, get to know him, maybe only have the intention to have a "non-serious"/open relationship, but still start to feel suffocated after some meetings. 2.) You have a good friend, no problem with seeing him really frequently over a long time, decide to additionally have sex with him and, well, feel perfectly fine with doing so.

But from a pragmatic perspective: Shouldn't both situations be exactly the same thing? Both situations imply "non-serious" relationship, seeing each other, freedom, flirting+sex with others allowed, being loved and free at the same time. So do you have any idea what it is, that makes it feel different for you whether the guy has been a long-time friend before or whether you just meet the guy with this particular intention of having some "romantic" interaction? Do you think that it could help you in some way, if you just considered every new acquaintanceship as "a nice guy you would like to become friends with" and then at some point decide intuitively whether additionally having sex is an option, removing the presure from the interaction?


Well, the "friends with benefit" story worked only once, 3 other times went "wrong" because the guys implied became always more hostile and hateful...then the only solution was "breaking it down".
Btw, i answer your question: yes, the 2 situations described are probably the same, but i have a kinda "psychological block" when i see a guy as a "BOYFRIEND" (this word scares me a lot nowadays). I'm afraid he could "steal my life" and i feel like he sucks all my vital energy. I'm not joking, i have this awful sensation, like having a vampyre on my skin who will leave me with no blood and no energy. Even when the guy does anything wrong, the feeling is too bad and too strong in me.
But when the same identical guy says "we're friends, you can do what you want, we can have sex and love each other but basically you're free", then i'm the happiest person in the world. I don't even want an open relationship probably, coz "relationships" means control at some level.
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Re: Love for freedom - i can't have relationships with men

Postby dijmart » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:30 am

imago dei wrote: i like looking "reachable" to men, i have no idea why, but i like letting them know that i'm "single" and i don't like being seen with the company of a man - i love being single and i don't want to change my condition, and i don't even want to have lots of sexual adventures (maybe only a couple a year), i just like looking "reachable" to their eyes and play with it. I remember i was like that also at 15 anyway, now i'm almost 29 but still it's my favourite hobby.


In my day, they called women like this a "tease". If you don't want to have a relationship or sex, then there is no purpose other then selfish ones, as you said it's your fav hobby...being a tease that is. I'm just calling it as I see it. I think you know why, it's because you can play with men, bat your eyelashes, get attention and boast your self esteem at the same time, while not having to commit in any way. It's all good for you, I just feel bad for the men who cross your path.
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Re: Love for freedom - i can't have relationships with men

Postby imago dei » Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:07 pm

dijmart wrote:
imago dei wrote: i like looking "reachable" to men, i have no idea why, but i like letting them know that i'm "single" and i don't like being seen with the company of a man - i love being single and i don't want to change my condition, and i don't even want to have lots of sexual adventures (maybe only a couple a year), i just like looking "reachable" to their eyes and play with it. I remember i was like that also at 15 anyway, now i'm almost 29 but still it's my favourite hobby.


In my day, they called women like this a "tease". If you don't want to have a relationship or sex, then there is no purpose other then selfish ones, as you said it's your fav hobby...being a tease that is. I'm just calling it as I see it. I think you know why, it's because you can play with men, bat your eyelashes, get attention and boast your self esteem at the same time, while not having to commit in any way. It's all good for you, I just feel bad for the men who cross your path.

Why do you feel bad for those men??
I have the feeling is funny for both, our interactions are based on fun and respect (well if there's no respect i go away). Plus, i'm sincere and i say that all i want is just fun and freedom. On my path remain people similar to me, it seems.
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