Long and intricate story about projections

Talk about relationships in the context of Spiritual Enlightenment

Long and intricate story about projections

Postby kiknossya » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:22 pm

Today I would like to talk about one of the most hard experiences I’ve been through. It is a very long and intricate story so I would just give you an overall idea about it. Or at least i will try.

A little more than a year ago I “met” this guy on the internet. It suddenly triggered something in me. It could have been a bunch of things all put together : the way he used to appear on social profiles, the music he listened, very superficial stuff like that. He was mysterious and magical to me.
We started to write to each other for about two months. We both were intrigued and prone to develop a kind of “romantic” love between each other so we used to write to each other in poetic and imaginative ways. I got to know very less of his personal life/issues at the time.
One fact I noticed after weeks was that he used to decide whenever answer me back, making me wait for an answer (even though I would write to him things that wouldn’t necessary asked for an answer in return). My childish perception led me to think that If you say something to someone for an extended period of time you should be honest.
I knew that there was something going on with his last gf, with whom he had the longest relationship ever and it was hard for her to accept everything.
Several times I asked him if it would be possible to meet each other and if it was a matter of money I would have make it to get to the place he lived (more or less two hours by plane from me) but no way, sometimes he would just tell me “we’ll see” sometimes he completely avoided the question.
I was very sad because on the other side he kept sending me poems, he kept saying to me precise things regarding how much he felt for me something. My question was always “Is this true?”

After these two months of intense speaking through internet he disappeared. Or at last he stopped contacting me. I went to a Vipassana Meditation course for 10 days (so no contact to the "external world" allowed) so I wrote to him when I got back and no response arrived. Nor a simple “Sorry, I had time to think about all of this, I thought it might not work” or anything else. I was very worried for him as I though he was living through something very hard.
Anyway I planned to go to his city because there was a concert I wanted to attend (I made tickets when we still talked and at that time he appeared cold and distant as I was doing something inappropriate saying to me “ok but do not think about the possibility of meeting me, it could happen and it couldn’t) so I went, at the end of october, something more than a month he stopped talking.
He realised I was there and he panicked telling me that I was intimidating a person he really cared about (i guess his “gf”) and I calmly replied that he was the one who disappeared and I had the right to be whenever I wanted to be. I decided to stay there one week because of that city being a tourist place, near the seaside. At that moment he started to write to me again everyday telling me that he had never forgot me, he still felt what he said he did but that we couldn’t meet because he wouldn’t intend to hurt “that other person’s feelings” I was ok with that

Actually on the very last day we met quite unexpectedly. It was unbelievable because I felt that something so intangible and distant could finally take form in front of me. I was overwhelmed with love. We spent just a few moments together, intimate moments but we didn’t had a sexual intercourse.
He went with me at the airport for the last goodbye, i cried all the time because I didn’t want to leave but i had to.

When I got back home we started to correspond again to each other via Skype for the following four months! We more or less wrote to each other every day. I felt deeply in love with whom I idealised since the beginning. And i had many proofs this was mutual.

We still had our “deep love moments” in which he still used to convey to me the illusory feeling he had for me BUT he also gradually started having really bad behaviours led by jealousy and who knows what. Apart from the fact after all this time he never found a “good time” to meet each other again because he felt the pressure of his ex/current gf (he mentioned to me that she sometimes had self harm behaviours and he was very worried because he felt he couldn’t foresee her reactions - to me this sounded quite worrying) in some isolated occasions he showed his profound self identification judging me from my past (I had several sexual relationships in my life, not all of them carried by a sense of love for the other but just willing to experiment), defining himself as disgusted by all of this and many other terrible things.
Everyone had their deeply unconscious period in their life, caused by reactions and by their dysfunctional attitudes but no one has the right to judge. He several times claimed that the past is very important.

Every time after these moments he would always get back to the way he was used to write me. He sometimes timidly said he was sorry. What I always got to see was that he was far more worried about me treating him badly in an hypothetical future and the fear he had of suffering for it. But I’m sure he never stopped to, he actually was suffering all the time. I never thought that something he could have done or though in a past moment could have stopped me from loving him.

Suddenly one day he just quit talking to me. Gradually he blocked me from everywhere as if I was a stranger and this completely made me devastated. I though all the time he owed me an explanation about why he did that. That period was also a very delicate period to me as I underwent a surgery and during all the previous months he kept repeating how he would have taken care of me and similar stuff. This was just something abstract, nothing concrete.

In those months I felt very sad because I felt I really loved him and I hoped he would get back at some point (as everyone thinks in this moments). Slowly I started to ask to myself what was so “necessary” about him for me? What made him that magical and profound person with whom I imagined to spend the rest of my life with? Is knowing an incredible amount of things a big plus to someone’s inner development? No, it isn’t. It is just to incite ego. I always had complex about not knowing enough, probably because of the extremely intricate relationship I have with my mother and I’ve always been fascinated by whose have some kind of elaborate knowledge about something.
Anyhow, I started to read “The Power of Now” and it really woke something in me. I felt increasingly how I didn’t really care about the negativity of that person. Like it wasn’t a matter to me, he always made choices regarding himself and I felt that he wasn’t hurting me but just himself.
I was the only one to hurt myself by idealising him for a year, demanding from him something he couldn’t give or couldn’t be.

At some point in June he contacted me. For a brief period I started believing that we could be friends (again or maybe for the first time) so in response at him saying that “I was in his heart for all this time” I also was affectionate to him. But he kept avoiding me most of the time and replying to me just for what really concerned him.
Also the reason of the “come back” was just he panicking (strange! :) ) about me making friends with a guy who is a friend of some friends of him (messy!).
(When he blocked me in march I contacted this other guy just to ask for a sincere help, i just wanted to give something to “blocking-guy” but at a certain point I changed my mind. I was pretty desperate!)

Apparently after weeks spent with him saying to me that he was suffering for what he was passing through but that he thought about me very much, he blocked me (again). I sent him messages and I wasn’t getting any reply, this made me disappointed because of course I still had a bit of pretension. I got to achieve that he is not the person I thought he was. This is how he is and somehow he never hide it to me, it was just me that didn’t really want to see that part of him.
On a certain level we were both affect by the same idealisation but the difference is that I realised everything was illusory and he did not.
He doesn’t “mean” anything particular in my life. I do not possess people, i do not demand them to be with me forcedly. I’m letting go the last part of this very big illusion.

Sometimes i still have moments in which i feel attachment for him, idealising what he said to me when he was “kind” and “in love”, how interesting he seemed on a superficial level and how he was good at combining words and creating appealing sentences. Sometimes i still feel his sincerity and i feel sad because i feel like i “lost” the chance to live something pure with him, but could have been pure for real? I don’t think so. I’ve been in this process for a long time, I met and “fell in love” with so many guys which seemed to be profound on the outside but when we had a kind of attempt at being in a relationship there were always something so insincere in them.
Given that I perfectly remember this, still sometimes I think (well, my ego does) that I had to help that guy, I had to be calm, at the same time I think that some kind of negative people “trigger” what is negative in us making us reacting in ways we wouldn’t in other cases. Bigger unconsciousness summons every kind of unconsciousnesses.
When i still think about him I frequently ask myself “when is it right to stay strong and forgive someone?” Eckhart would say “Always” as we don’t have to protect ourselves from nothing as there’s nothing potentially harmful if we don’t make it real in our perception. My body of pain still feel compromised as I feel stupid to always forgive him knowing that he does what he wants anyway, treating me with superficiality, blocking me, unblocking me and explaining how much pain he had to come through and acting to me apparently nicely. I don’t want to be the one who is always waiting and is disposed to “accept” his behaviours. I wouldn’t have any reason to avoid talking with him again if the chance would recreate but I’m afraid this would translate in his mind as “ok, she’s not angry with me after all I can do that again in the future”. I just don’t want to incite this anymore.

Thank you if you read all this and sorry for my hasty english.
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Re: Long and intricate story about projections

Postby Andreas » Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:03 pm

Hi Kiknossya,

Thanks a lot for sharing your story. I could feel with you while reading it and I think this is something really many people can relate to. I guess most people, at one point in their life, have had a similar experience and there is so much to learn from your text - in particular because it is so nice to see the development you have gone through now after reading the book by ET and I'm really happy for you because I think you're on the right track ;). Let me try to give you some feedback on what you wrote:

I won't go into the full story... because the story itself is just form. It's the form in which the suffering realized. The more interesting part is the "Why", the lessons learned from it and the lessons still possible to learn.

First of all, you are right in the way that you were part of a very big illusion. That is what happens quite frequently. People don't fall in love with a person, but instead fall in love with a fantasy they have in their head. The guys was just had one certain attribute (or several ones) which were part of this dream of yours and then triggered the fantasy. From that moment on, he basically could do whatever he wanted because you were already in love with your dream and therefore with him. Letting him go somehow also implied letting go of your dream and this is so much more difficult - although he actually is NOT your dream (but this nearly impossible to grasp for the ego, once it unconciously made that connection in the first place). So this was the "Why", but I think you already realized this (at least partially) and shared it in your story - what's one of the reasons why I think it is such an awesome story to share and helpful to others.

He then decided to treat you in a bad way. You then decided to suffer by allowing it. The interesting thing here is, that for an outsider, it would have probably been very easy to see what is going on quite early - as you've said it yourself. There were all those signs. He was actually never hiding it. Still, being in the situation onself, it is so hard to see it. Don't get me wrong - I don't want to "blame" you for this. And please also don't blame yourself. It happens. It's just one of those nasty tricks the ego plays on us. The only thing we can do is learning from it and it seems you did... so that's awesome ;)!

One experience I can share with you on this, is that deeds usually matter much more than words in this respect. He can tell you that he's in love with you. That you've always been in his heart. That you're special. It is easy to tell such things. But when his deeds are "ignoring/blocking you" or even just "not finding time to meet you in 2 months", then you can be quite sure that he doesn't care. And now, one remark not directly coming from a spiritual but rather "practical" point of view: If I guy really likes you, he definitely will be able to find a way to meet you within 2 months. Every "but" is just a lame excuse. If it was honest, he would at least propose a concrete alternative option, e.g. "I'm on a business trip for the next 2 months, but I will be back on the xxth of month x, let's meet somewhen the week after".

So far about the past... now about the present moment and the potential future. There are aspects to this. First, about his character. Although you're not idealizing him as a whole anymore, you've kind of created those 2 parts of him. This one part, which did the bad things to you and which you say you didn't see at the beginning although he hever was hiding it... and then this other part, which said all those nice things and which, as you write yourself, you sometimes still idealize thinking about how pure it could have been. But the point is that he is not 2 parts. He is just one single being. And put all together, the result doesn't seem too appealing actually. So the answer is no, it could have not been as pure. There is nothing pure about him - the pure thing again is just your original fantasy/dream which you are of course still in love with because, well, obviously, because it is really pure and amazing - who wouldn't enjoy a relationship like that ;)? The second thing is, how you should relate to him in the future. Obviously, I cannot tell you how you "should". There is no right and no wrong way of doing so. It's just a personal decision. I can, however, tell you what I would do myself. Let me tell you a story:

Imagine the guy is living at the shore (Oh, his city is at the seaside indeed, what a cool coincidence for my story.) in a small cabin. One day he leaves his cabin and finds a small boat that has happened to float towards the shore right next to him. He likes how the boat looks and he thinks he always wanted a boat like this so he attaches a rope to it. The following days, since he really enjoys the thought of having that boat, he continues attaching additional ropes to it to make sure it doesn't float away in case something goes wrong. He does that for a month or two, although he never plans to actually use it (but just likes the thought of possessing it). But then, with time passing, he even starts to care less and less about the boat. He still likes the thought of possessing it somehow, but actually he doesn't like the work that comes with it, making sure all ropes are still tied correctly, etc. - so he starts not to pass by every day anymore. Because of the sun shining on the ropes all day and birds picking on the ropes, the ropes start to break and to become fewer. Ocassionally he still attaches a new one, but in general they become less and less, until one day, there is no more rope attached to the boat. Some small wind comes and the boat starts floating away again to some other place. Some time later, he sees the boat again being at some other place. He's sad and wishes to own the boat again. But there is no way he can get it from its current place back to his home. He's angry and wishes he had not given up on the possession of boat in the first place. But he cannot do anything against it. He will have to live with it and with the decision he took somewhen in the past. Is the boat angry at him? No, of course not it is not. It's just a boat. A boat cannot be angry. Still it is gone forever.

Of course, in this story, the boat had no free will and was just floating. That's surely not what I want to claim for you ;). But this was not the point of the story. The point was to emphasize that this guy made his decisions. And this decisions directly affected you and your "relationship". This decisions, ultimately, lead towards you reading ET and proceeding with your life without him. You don't have to be angry at him, that's right. You participated in the whole process as well by allowing him to treat you like this for such a long time because - in contrast to the boat - you could have left at any time before. So yes, no need to be angry and it's ok to "forgive". But forgiving doesn't imply you have to give him a place in your current life or in your future life. Why would you? You don't "owe" him anything. You say there is no reason not to talk to him again. But that's wrong. There IS a reason not to talk to him again. Because instead of talking to him again, instead of spending the most precious thing you have in your life, the moments your have in your life, the finite time that you are living, with a person that treats you in a bad way (and you know he will most likely do it again), you can use this time to spend it in a way that makes you happy instead - by doing nice things, having positive experiences, finding people who enrich your life and contribute to it in a positive way. There are so many awesome things in life you can do instead, so many cool people you can meet instead - kick out the bullshit (in this case: the particular guy) and go for the good things. So what do you prefer to do with your life ;)?
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Re: Long and intricate story about projections

Postby kiknossya » Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:58 am

Andreas wrote:First of all, you are right in the way that you were part of a very big illusion. That is what happens quite frequently. People don't fall in love with a person, but instead fall in love with a fantasy they have in their head. The guys was just had one certain attribute (or several ones) which were part of this dream of yours and then triggered the fantasy. From that moment on, he basically could do whatever he wanted because you were already in love with your dream and therefore with him. Letting him go somehow also implied letting go of your dream and this is so much more difficult - although he actually is NOT your dream (but this nearly impossible to grasp for the ego, once it unconciously made that connection in the first place). So this was the "Why", but I think you already realized this (at least partially) and shared it in your story - what's one of the reasons why I think it is such an awesome story to share and helpful to others.

He then decided to treat you in a bad way. You then decided to suffer by allowing it. The interesting thing here is, that for an outsider, it would have probably been very easy to see what is going on quite early - as you've said it yourself. There were all those signs. He was actually never hiding it. Still, being in the situation onself, it is so hard to see it. Don't get me wrong - I don't want to "blame" you for this. And please also don't blame yourself. It happens. It's just one of those nasty tricks the ego plays on us. The only thing we can do is learning from it and it seems you did... so that's awesome ;)!


What I've realised more importantly is that there's no "dream" to fulfill. Of course, we all perfectly know how a relationship without ego could be and we desire so much being at ease with someone, with no suffering and seas of comprehension. In life there are people that happen to be prone (apparently) to fit said desire, just because we (I, in this case) think that having a certain cultural baggage necessarily helps to make them sincere. In my experience I was just surpirsed that a person could know things that the majority of people don't know, and also I found incredible connections between us in terms of habits and personal stories. Eventually I saw all of these things just as "form". Probably life wanted to show me how it could be possible to find someone who fits perfectly our imaginary of "a perfect someone" and at the same time be the "wrongest someone" for us. As ET says, people could find themselves in situations in which they could react differentely than they were used to and appear to arise that deep unconsciousness that always was in them, just not yet manifested.
He not only never hid it but I got different warnings from some very close friends of mine whose advices I didn't listen to. Especially from my best friend who had in the past a very harmful relationship as well based on "control" and "possession" (she was the one controlled). I just kept justifying him, saying that I had to be understanding and kind to him because of what I felt. She just accepted that because she perfectly knew I probably wasn't ready. And that was so true.


One experience I can share with you on this, is that deeds usually matter much more than words in this respect. He can tell you that he's in love with you. That you've always been in his heart. That you're special. It is easy to tell such things. But when his deeds are "ignoring/blocking you" or even just "not finding time to meet you in 2 months", then you can be quite sure that he doesn't care. And now, one remark not directly coming from a spiritual but rather "practical" point of view: If I guy really likes you, he definitely will be able to find a way to meet you within 2 months. Every "but" is just a lame excuse. If it was honest, he would at least propose a concrete alternative option, e.g. "I'm on a business trip for the next 2 months, but I will be back on the xxth of month x, let's meet somewhen the week after".


Exactly! You got the point. I was sad all the time because he wanted to make himself sure that he was making the right choice with me. I never saw him launching himself into this relationship. He always was in a "defence mode". He said very stupid things, showing how he never believed me, and how he never believed what I felt sincerely for him. When you really love someone you don't have to "check" or to make sure about things before even starting. You just let yourself go and this is what I did completely but this got me trapped.

Imagine the guy is living at the shore (Oh, his city is at the seaside indeed, what a cool coincidence for my story.) in a small cabin. One day he leaves his cabin and finds a small boat that has happened to float towards the shore right next to him. He likes how the boat looks and he thinks he always wanted a boat like this so he attaches a rope to it. The following days, since he really enjoys the thought of having that boat, he continues attaching additional ropes to it to make sure it doesn't float away in case something goes wrong. He does that for a month or two, although he never plans to actually use it (but just likes the thought of possessing it). But then, with time passing, he even starts to care less and less about the boat. He still likes the thought of possessing it somehow, but actually he doesn't like the work that comes with it, making sure all ropes are still tied correctly, etc. - so he starts not to pass by every day anymore. Because of the sun shining on the ropes all day and birds picking on the ropes, the ropes start to break and to become fewer. Ocassionally he still attaches a new one, but in general they become less and less, until one day, there is no more rope attached to the boat. Some small wind comes and the boat starts floating away again to some other place. Some time later, he sees the boat again being at some other place. He's sad and wishes to own the boat again. But there is no way he can get it from its current place back to his home. He's angry and wishes he had not given up on the possession of boat in the first place. But he cannot do anything against it. He will have to live with it and with the decision he took somewhen in the past. Is the boat angry at him? No, of course not it is not. It's just a boat. A boat cannot be angry. Still it is gone forever.


Thank you Andreas for this inspirational story. It fits perfectly and It gives a perfect image of what was going on. In italian there's a saying which goes like "having a foot in two shoes" and which basically means that you don't really want to make a choice between two things and you keep having both of them but this won't make things easier. Probably in the future he will contact me again justifying him as always, demanding my willingness to "forgive" him and understand that he was suffering so all of this was acceptable. The suffering ego demands for itself lots of things, just because it identifies itself as a victim. So acting like everything is taken for granted and behave selfishly is something very common between unconscious people.

Of course, in this story, the boat had no free will and was just floating. That's surely not what I want to claim for you ;). But this was not the point of the story. The point was to emphasize that this guy made his decisions. And this decisions directly affected you and your "relationship". This decisions, ultimately, lead towards you reading ET and proceeding with your life without him. You don't have to be angry at him, that's right. You participated in the whole process as well by allowing him to treat you like this for such a long time because - in contrast to the boat - you could have left at any time before. So yes, no need to be angry and it's ok to "forgive". But forgiving doesn't imply you have to give him a place in your current life or in your future life. Why would you? You don't "owe" him anything. You say there is no reason not to talk to him again. But that's wrong. There IS a reason not to talk to him again. Because instead of talking to him again, instead of spending the most precious thing you have in your life, the moments your have in your life, the finite time that you are living, with a person that treats you in a bad way (and you know he will most likely do it again), you can use this time to spend it in a way that makes you happy instead - by doing nice things, having positive experiences, finding people who enrich your life and contribute to it in a positive way. There are so many awesome things in life you can do instead, so many cool people you can meet instead - kick out the bullshit (in this case: the particular guy) and go for the good things. So what do you prefer to do with your life ;)?


As you already said there's nothing right or wrong per se. It's more important HOW you do something instead of WHAT you do. I could also write to him once or twice in the future if circumnstances will create, but that's something not necessary at all. Nothing is necessary. He's just a person after all. Not a God, not an enlighted one. Just a person who identifies himself in things, in past, in actions. I just felt i wanted sincerely to help him but I cannot do anything because he's the only one who can help himself and If he doesn't want to modify his current state, I have no rights to impose myself. I embrace and accept his desire to suffer. You are right when you say purer things in life should call me more and that's what is exactly happening now. I'm moving to another country, I will do a lot of different experiences. I'm calm with the present moment. Everything is perfect in this moment. I also do not feel anger nor sadness anymore. How could I? If we just stop and observe without judging, who made those acts, what acts are being made, we will only see ignorance disclose. Nothing pure nor unique nor essential.
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Re: Long and intricate story about projections

Postby smiileyjen101 » Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:16 am

I was the only one to hurt myself by idealising him for a year, demanding from him something he couldn’t give or couldn’t be.


Any time we feel this imbalance, our expectations have been given life, only in our minds and hearts of course.

In reality the expectations are 'nothing real', but we build upon them anyway, denying that which is real, distorting actions into excuses, and assuming that we can turn our expectations into realities, rather than accepting what is known, but is being ignored.

So goes the drama, especially in tragic romance tales of heroes and villians and damsels in distress saving their heroes/villains from themselves or other heroes/villains/heroines/damsels in distress.

The characters are all there, in your story.

He not only never hid it but I got different warnings from some very close friends of mine whose advices I didn't listen to. Especially from my best friend who had in the past a very harmful relationship as well based on "control" and "possession" (she was the one controlled). I just kept justifying him, saying that I had to be understanding and kind to him because of what I felt. She just accepted that because she perfectly knew I probably wasn't ready. And that was so true.


If someone does something once, it may be an accident.
If they do it twice they thought it worth repeating.
If they do it three times, it's a pattern of behaviour.

It takes serenity to accept that which cannot be changed (and that which is not within our capacity to change)
courage to change that which you can (which is always only ever within your own awareness, capacity & willingness), and the wisdom to know the difference.

Wisdom only comes through experience. We live, we learn, we grow. :D
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com
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