he wants to live with me, plz give me suggestions

Talk about relationships in the context of Spiritual Enlightenment

Re: he wants to live with me, plz give me suggestions

Postby imago dei » Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:10 pm

dijmart wrote:Sure, he may try to control or manipulate you, but in reality they're mind games. You can't be controlled or manipulated unless you allow it. Sometimes that means making difficult choices if faced with an ultimatum, but they're your choices and yours to make if the situation arises.

But i have the feeling 90% of people are like that...even my best friend said "i would be very offended if my gf wouldnt like to stay with me one day". So, i dont want to end up being single, i mean maybe i have to get used to this egoic attachment.
My bf has many qualities that i appreciate of course, but still a strong ego (as the majority as i presume). Im scared of not fullfilling his expectations (love, closeness).
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Re: he wants to live with me, plz give me suggestions

Postby dijmart » Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:21 pm

imago dei wrote:
dijmart wrote:Sure, he may try to control or manipulate you, but in reality they're mind games. You can't be controlled or manipulated unless you allow it. Sometimes that means making difficult choices if faced with an ultimatum, but they're your choices and yours to make if the situation arises.

But i have the feeling 90% of people are like that...even my best friend said "i would be very offended if my gf wouldnt like to stay with me one day". So, i dont want to end up being single, i mean maybe i have to get used to this egoic attachment.
My bf has many qualities that i appreciate of course, but still a strong ego (as the majority as i presume). Im scared of not fullfilling his expectations (love, closeness).


Perhaps, most are like that, but still you can not be controlled/manipulated unless you allow it. That was my point.
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Re: he wants to live with me, plz give me suggestions

Postby imago dei » Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:46 am

dijmart wrote:
imago dei wrote:
dijmart wrote:Sure, he may try to control or manipulate you, but in reality they're mind games. You can't be controlled or manipulated unless you allow it. Sometimes that means making difficult choices if faced with an ultimatum, but they're your choices and yours to make if the situation arises.

But i have the feeling 90% of people are like that...even my best friend said "i would be very offended if my gf wouldnt like to stay with me one day". So, i dont want to end up being single, i mean maybe i have to get used to this egoic attachment.
My bf has many qualities that i appreciate of course, but still a strong ego (as the majority as i presume). Im scared of not fullfilling his expectations (love, closeness).


Perhaps, most are like that, but still you can not be controlled/manipulated unless you allow it. That was my point.

I dont allow it.
Still, what makes me feel uncomfortable is the way his happiness lie in me, mostly. He can't be alone, this is the difference between us.
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Re: he wants to live with me, plz give me suggestions

Postby smiileyjen101 » Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:39 am

ah dear imago :)

Here's the thing - If the answer is not yes, then it's no. That may not be no for all time, but it is no for now.

If you think he expects/desires/wants 'yes' & you're afraid to say no then you are feeding fear, and that's why your head is all over the place.

If he puts an ultimatum on you to say yes or lose him, then it's not YOU that he wants, it's SOMEONE who will say yes that he wants.

A few 'red flags' for me.
Im scared of not fullfilling his expectations (love, closeness).

... if you're scared of that while you have an independent life, look out, it certainly would breed resentment & eventually contempt.

Healthy love encourages each partner to be the fullness of who they really are, not what we 'expect' of them.

what makes me feel uncomfortable is the way his happiness lie in me, mostly. He can't be alone, this is the difference between us

There is no way that anyone can successfully be the happiness for another - it would be asking you to be an extension of him for his happiness. It's fraught with danger and you would do well to google 'narcissistic supply'.
That's where one person uses another for their happiness and their sorrow - if you don't live up to their expectations... fraught with yuck because the bar always moves, what makes them happy today may change tomorrow.
You are not here to be someone's reason for ... any thing.

I know he's forcing himself not to be possessive, but i know he would naturally be.

People will always revert to their 'natural' behaviours, after the seducing phase where they often bend themselves to be more attractive to their interest.

To me it seems like your gut already knows this. Dominant natural behaviours can only be suppressed short term - 3 months is pretty soon to be making such big changes in a relationship.

It sounds like you already have an 'unequal' relationship in terms of what is okay, and what is not.
What is with the mention about work?
Also when i do my best at work.


But he's soooo unsecure....once i said i love my dauther above everything and he became angry and offended.

Someone you've been dating for three months want to be more important in your life than your daughter? .... what part of this RED FLAG!!!! are you not taking seriously?


These things will not get less intense, they will get more.

Do yourself one favour Imago ---- BE honestly, authentically YOU.
Love, honour, cherish and respect YOU first, to do otherwise would be doing him no favours.
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Re: he wants to live with me, plz give me suggestions

Postby imago dei » Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:58 pm

smiileyjen101 wrote:ah dear imago :)

Here's the thing - If the answer is not yes, then it's no. That may not be no for all time, but it is no for now.

If you think he expects/desires/wants 'yes' & you're afraid to say no then you are feeding fear, and that's why your head is all over the place.

If he puts an ultimatum on you to say yes or lose him, then it's not YOU that he wants, it's SOMEONE who will say yes that he wants.

A few 'red flags' for me.
Im scared of not fullfilling his expectations (love, closeness).

... if you're scared of that while you have an independent life, look out, it certainly would breed resentment & eventually contempt.

Healthy love encourages each partner to be the fullness of who they really are, not what we 'expect' of them.

what makes me feel uncomfortable is the way his happiness lie in me, mostly. He can't be alone, this is the difference between us

There is no way that anyone can successfully be the happiness for another - it would be asking you to be an extension of him for his happiness. It's fraught with danger and you would do well to google 'narcissistic supply'.
That's where one person uses another for their happiness and their sorrow - if you don't live up to their expectations... fraught with yuck because the bar always moves, what makes them happy today may change tomorrow.
You are not here to be someone's reason for ... any thing.

I know he's forcing himself not to be possessive, but i know he would naturally be.

People will always revert to their 'natural' behaviours, after the seducing phase where they often bend themselves to be more attractive to their interest.

To me it seems like your gut already knows this. Dominant natural behaviours can only be suppressed short term - 3 months is pretty soon to be making such big changes in a relationship.

It sounds like you already have an 'unequal' relationship in terms of what is okay, and what is not.
What is with the mention about work?
Also when i do my best at work.


But he's soooo unsecure....once i said i love my dauther above everything and he became angry and offended.

Someone you've been dating for three months want to be more important in your life than your daughter? .... what part of this RED FLAG!!!! are you not taking seriously?


These things will not get less intense, they will get more.

Do yourself one favour Imago ---- BE honestly, authentically YOU.
Love, honour, cherish and respect YOU first, to do otherwise would be doing him no favours.

Wonderful post, thank you so much.
I think the only answer is: it's a typical "love" of the ego, attachment, fear of lost. This is what i sense about him. He's a really good man, but his ego so strong. I dont think i can get anything better in this society, i think this is the "normality": you have to stay with me otherwise im angry, i help you but you have to make me feel important ecc...
Just like a contract: doing something in order to get love back (Erich Fromm - "the art of loving").
I've tried to force myself but it doesnt work, so i listen to your suggestion and just be myself, with no convention. I dont like any convention, especially in this field.
I'll say living together is not for me, at least not now.
He's rich and can also help me a lot, but i feel uncomfortable at the way his happiness depends on me, otherwise will take revenge.
Btw: do you have any experience of an enlightened relationship? How can real love work in close relationships?? I'm starting to feel pessimistic....
People can't tolerate loneliness and need to stay together most of the time, thats what i see. Im not like that, i feel terribly good just being in the present moment...there's nothing to add. People say that "i can't love" because im not very attached....no idea....maybe i'll be alone forever, who knows....
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Re: he wants to live with me, plz give me suggestions

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sat Sep 26, 2015 1:41 am

Imago said: I dont think i can get anything better in this society, i think this is the "normality": you have to stay with me otherwise im angry, i help you but you have to make me feel important ecc...
Just like a contract: doing something in order to get love back (Erich Fromm - "the art of loving").
I've tried to force myself but it doesnt work,


It might be common, but that doesn't make it 'normal' - normal is only what we choose to accept and repeat.

Of course it doesn't work as love. It works as trade & as long as the partners stay happy in their contract of trade there is no problem. But if they're calling it love, and pretending it's love, or hoping it's love, of course the façade will crack - it's not love, it's trade. Some can be honest and happy about relationships of trade, some even prefer it to love if the terms of the 'contract' are fair and agreed to honestly. It would be more honest to say I trade you, my company, my affection my attention, my whatever.. for your ...whatever, than it is to say I love you, if there is a 'thing' or 'condition' attached.

He's rich and can also help me a lot, but i feel uncomfortable at the way his happiness depends on me, otherwise will take revenge.


Can you turn this around and see how unfair - unloving, disrespectful it is / would be for him - for you to put him in that 'role' and hold him to it? In a way, you doing what you accuse him of - making him responsible for your happiness or sorrow.

Love scores no points and holds no tally, it just is freely given & gratefully received in whatever form it manifests that generates an experience of gratitude & generosity in balance.

Btw: do you have any experience of an enlightened relationship? How can real love work in close relationships??

Love works in close relationships or any relationship through one source alone - the person experiencing it.
The quality of the experience totally depends on the awareness, capacity & willingness of that one person.

Like Di said above, no one can control you unless you let them, this is true.

If you love yourself - love (are grateful for & generous to),
honour yourself - (do no thing in awareness that will bring regret),
cherish yourself (hold precious & be kind and nurturing to) &
respect yourself (be as love would be, honestly, for honesty is the highest form of love)
then you will know what it is and how it feels, and how to express to love, honour, cherish and respect others and to be loved, honoured, cherished and respected by others.

You can't demand that they do this, you can only notice IF they do, and try to notice if the lack of is in their awareness, capacity or willingness.

And because you love, honour, cherish & respect yourself and others you will be able to navigate & negotiate the trickier bits of boundary setting & keeping in a relative sense.

In one of the CWG books (book two) it explains this very well. What love is, and isn't. I've posted the gems I found in it both here & in my blog (link below). One of the things that ring soooo true and clangs like a very loud bell when it's out of whack----
Love is without need - because it is without need it seeks nothing not wishing to be held, to give nothing not joyously welcomed.'

Basically ^ this respects boundaries.

In a healthy relationship boundaries are awarely respected, and when we overstep the mark (it's likely we all carelessly do at some time or another- giving 'advice' where it's not wanted, labelling, putting our fears on others etc) we instinctively know / feel the imbalance & correct it, & in gratitude & generosity apologise - taking responsibility for it, even where no offence has been taken - forgiven... but mindfully. It's just 'different'.

People say that "i can't love" because im not very attached....no idea....maybe i'll be alone forever, who knows....

That would very much depend on the definition of 'love' being measured against.
Maybe you 'can't trade' because it feels less than loving, cherishing, honouring & respecting yourself and others.

There are worse things than being alone Imago.

But in essence, we're never alone and we can love and be love freely.

If I were to set you homework :wink:
Consider and write out what each of these words means, looks & feels like to you -
to love,
to honour,
to cherish,
to respect.
Learn to notice, 'read' and 'interpret' them in relation to your self and to & from others.
Check in with them in your decision making & experiences.

They are four things that once aware of the power of them ... they just change the world inside & out :wink:
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Re: he wants to live with me, plz give me suggestions

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sat Sep 26, 2015 2:14 am

When you've done your homework & considered the above, you might appreciate this answer more than you might otherwise. :wink:

Imago said: Btw: do you have any experience of an enlightened relationship?


Gratefully, joyfully, yes, I do, it's not solid or static or to be found in any one person, but in many of the relationships that encompass friend, companion, lover & confidante, in family & friends & acquaintances & stranger encounters - experiences as well as in intimate relating. It's not up to any one person but our self how we experience, contribute to and participate in relating.

While I don't think it's necessarily 'enlightened', sometimes it's just when we freely, honestly BE. It's when authenticity meets authenticity, when love overwhelms fear, when honesty is appreciated - even if a little uncomfortable.

It feels a little like this - like two people in whatever experience saying YES! to this -

The Invitation by Oriah Mountain Dreamer

It doesn’t interest me what you do for a living.
I want to know what you ache for and if you dare to dream
of meeting your heart’s longing.

It doesn’t interest me how old you are.
I want to know if you will risk
looking like a fool for love
for your dream, for the adventure of being alive.

It doesn’t interest me what planets are
squaring your moon...
I want to know if you have touched
the centre of your own sorrow,
if you have been opened by life’s betrayals
or have become shrivelled and closed
from fear of further pain.

I want to know if you can sit with pain
mine or your own
without moving to hide it, or fade it, or fix it.

I want to know if you can be with joy
mine or your own
if you can dance with wildness
and let the ecstasy fill you
to the tips of your fingers and toes
without cautioning us to be careful
to be realistic
to remember the limitations of being human.

It doesn’t interest me
if the story you are telling me is true.
I want to know if you can disappoint another
to be true to yourself.

If you can bear the accusation of betrayal
and not betray your own soul.

If you can be faithless and therefore trustworthy.

I want to know if you can see Beauty
even when it is not pretty, every day.

And if you can source your own life from its presence.

I want to know if you can live with failure
yours and mine
and still stand at the edge of the lake
and shout to the silver of the full moon,
“Yes.”

It doesn’t interest me to know where you live
or how much money you have.

I want to know if you can get up
after the night of grief and despair
weary and bruised to the bone
and do what needs to be done
to feed the children.

It doesn’t interest me who you know
or how you came to be here.

I want to know if you will stand
in the centre of the fire with me
and not shrink back.

It doesn’t interest me
where or what or with whom you have studied.

I want to know
what sustains you from the inside
when all else falls away.

I want to know
if you can be alone with yourself
and if you truly like the company you keep
in the empty moments.

By Oriah © Mountain Dreaming,
from the book The Invitation
published by HarperONE, San Francisco,
1999 All rights reserved


When you know these things of yourself, only then can you appreciate and encourage them in others.

Any others - any any any other that you meet along the way, in any any any form of relating.

How then can you ever feel 'alone' or separate to or from others?

Can / could / do you stand naked - naked of material things, of mind constructs, of roles and expectations, and just BE wherever, with whoever in this moment and not be restricted by your constructs of yourself or your construct of them?

(it may not be other people's 'normal', but it can be yours, and it's a ton of fun to share it with others who appreciate it!! :D )
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: he wants to live with me, plz give me suggestions

Postby imago dei » Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:41 pm

Dear Smiley,
thank you so much for your posts, i need some time to understand and realize everything, so i will read and read it again.
It's a very hard moment for me....i love my new bf but he can't simply realize the way i am, i guess....i know he´ s suffering and i feel bad about it...he simply can't understand my way of enjoying him and the relationship, but still be happy alone with myself. People say it's cold and distanced (and im not at all).
My best friend said it's "bad" to be this way, to tell your partner "i'm happy with or without you", it's not romantic and cold. This is how this society works.
I found the power of the here & now at 24, stayed for years long single and now im trying to have a "mainstream" relationship...
What is considered "normal" seem to be dependence and attachment, avoidance of loneliness...you have to stay together all the time and this is what is called "love".
Btw i want to share my life with him, but im hurting him coz his expectations are not fullfilled.
Lets see what happens.....Now i read your posts again, they are very useful Smiley.
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Re: he wants to live with me, plz give me suggestions

Postby imago dei » Mon Sep 28, 2015 2:17 pm

Smiley, i read everything and agree with most things. I truly love myself and live the present moment - born again at the age of 24.
Btw, just everyday exemples: in a close relationship between man and woman, both are not attached to each other....i mean how can it works?? Will they stay for hours without talking? For one week separated from each other?? For me it's pretty normal, but i guess that 99% of people who see it as no interest and coldness. This is what happens to me nowadays with my bf....people say it's no love....
I might sound stupid, but these things cause me problems with my bf...
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Re: he wants to live with me, plz give me suggestions

Postby smiileyjen101 » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:57 pm

I saw a quote yesterday that said 'in every head there is a world' and it's true. In each head there is an idea - based on experiences and interpretations of what a thing means - a picture of the world. How it is, and how it 'should' be, all by individual interpretation.

And these worlds are all different - not right or wrong, just different.

The homework I set, for you to understand in your world what love, honour, cherish and respect means to you, what they look and feel like to you, how you interpret them and recognise them, will allow you to understand that they are just one possible interpretation of those things. Your bf's interpretations of them, even your friend's interpretations of them will be different based on their view of the world.

Again, different is not wrong, just different.

Difficulties arise when one world collides with another that is unwilling, or incapable, of accepting differences in interpretations. We think it's the 'thing' or the 'act' that is 'wrong' and upsetting us, but it's really the underlying interpretation of what a thing is.

So, if one person says - love is this, and another says - no, no, love is that... what they're really saying is I recognise love when I see, feel, hear ....this, because that's how it is in my world (in my head).

Again, neither right nor wrong, just different interpretations.

If you know and can express what it looks, feels, sounds like to you, you can offer that interpretation as the basis of your understanding.

So in your case - your bf is saying (maybe, forgive me for interpreting on his behalf) that when two people want to spend all their time together then it looks, feels, sounds like his interpretation - his world view, his mind's belief, of what love is. When people spend time apart the 'absence' is interpreted as not caring - not love.

Others might recognise love as the energy that flows between people regardless of how far away they are, or how long since they've seen each other - it's a feeling of connection with no bounds in time or distance.

There is a difference in 'connection' and 'attachment'. Connection is without condition, attachment has conditions attached to the connection.

None of which help you with your bf :wink: unless you can agree to hear, to listen to, to appreciate, to leave room to understand each other's worlds.

That doesn't necessarily mean to agree with them, or to adopt their world view as yours, or have them adopt your world view as their's. It just means to hear it, to acknowledge it as different interpretations and accept that it exists in difference.
If both are willing (& capable) to do this, honestly, then genuine free appreciation and understanding can grow between people while acknowledging and accepting their differences. Joint decisions can be made taking both world views into account, accepting that compromise may be necessary - but those compromises are still acceptable - genuinely in a way that doesn't generate regret or resentment.

Instead of taking offence one factors in the world view of the other. At our core one thinks the best, rather than the worst, of the other, in gratitude & generosity for self and other we recognise that we're all doing the best that we can with what we have and the world view that we hold in our heads.

My parents eg have totally different world views, have they clashed at times and been misinterpreted, absolutely - but their 'connection' stays just as strong as it's always been, allowing them to give space to each other's interpretations of things. Now after more than 60 years with each other they can more accurately interpret each other's behaviours and words etc because they have the evidence of what things mean to each other.

In many ways the more different our interpretations of the world are, the more we can widen our own world views and learn to 'open our minds' to interpretations we could not even imagine. We probably learn more from differences than we do from similar world views.

Understanding our own world view, looking after our own boundaries, allow us to freely explore the world views of others without getting lost in them, or in trying to change them or convince them to have ours.

Look not to the qualities of the attachment and attraction - look to the quality of the connection.
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Re: he wants to live with me, plz give me suggestions

Postby imago dei » Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:54 pm

You know what, smiley??
Yes, i agree that of course everyone has his own interpretations of love and relationships, most people interpret love = always together
I dont agree with it, i think you can't love if you can't stay alone...
Btw i want to give up and adapt myself to the mainstream conception...life will be much easier, instead of living like a steppen wolf like till now.
I want to force myself.
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Re: he wants to live with me, plz give me suggestions

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:32 am

Btw i want to give up and adapt myself to the mainstream conception...life will be much easier, instead of living like a steppen wolf like till now.
I want to force myself.


You are free to experience whatever you 'want' Imago - just remember you did the creating of it. ;) (and don't blame others for the situations you find yourself in.) You can be having an experience & watching it at the same time.

You may find life is easier, or you may find many things you 'assumed' may not be quite correct.
It's all an adventure, you can change your 'mind' any time you like.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: he wants to live with me, plz give me suggestions

Postby imago dei » Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:48 pm

smiileyjen101 wrote:
Btw i want to give up and adapt myself to the mainstream conception...life will be much easier, instead of living like a steppen wolf like till now.
I want to force myself.


You are free to experience whatever you 'want' Imago - just remember you did the creating of it. ;) (and don't blame others for the situations you find yourself in.) You can be having an experience & watching it at the same time.

You may find life is easier, or you may find many things you 'assumed' may not be quite correct.
It's all an adventure, you can change your 'mind' any time you like.

Exactly.
I want to open myself to this new "traditional" experience....why not, i think it would be pretty narrow minded not to try new experiences. I know it would be hard for me at the beginning, i live now alone and have the feeling that i'm totally free....But it might be only a prejudice of my mind.
So: let's try it, there's nothing to lose ;)
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Re: he wants to live with me, plz give me suggestions

Postby imago dei » Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:54 pm

Btw in many buddhist poetries they describe love as not needing the other, staying also distant from him without feeling alone...i've been like that for years, but if everyone was like that no family would exist. I start finding it a bit sad.
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Re: he wants to live with me, plz give me suggestions

Postby far_eastofwest » Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:27 pm

Hi all, haven't been here for a yearish. Haven't checked some of my email accounts for six months.... lol ....
Imagio.... a few things stand out (probably missed something as i didn't read it all, but i remember you).
You want 'space, own time etc' an alos 'nice love/man".
These may appear to be conflicting needs, however one does not need to exclude the other.
I've moved in with my partner after many years.
He too stated " i want someone to come home to" and also "i want peace and quiet when i get home and to be left alone" at different times in past.
Like... how do you do that?
Pretty simple really.... some double doors to divide the lounge and living areas.... a spare bed when its too hard to sleep with him.... we do stuff together but also have our own time.
Worked out pretty well, he has Npd btw and not in a 'mild' form so not the 'easiest' of persons to have a relationship with.

Seriously, its not so hard to 'live together'. In fact I can't imagine I would want someone sitting by my side every night, eating every meal with me, doing all things together. I have a dog and she does that, bless her heart, she is my shadow. I love the dog, but she is a dog, and my partner, he is a person not a dog so has different gearing.

I'm pretty 'mainstream'..... just made my own stream.

I clarify things, if i want to sleep alone for a night that it is not some 'mood' and all is well. People can't tell this by just looking at you. I suggest i'm off to sleep alone as I can see that he just needs his 'space' some nights or is all (can't describe what someone is like when they are all in their head, like having another world going on there). We hold hands and say goodnight first. It is NEVER as a result of a conflict, when there are conflicts we sleep together, thats not a variable.
Space is not to create distance but to bring us closer. Hard to explain.

Its worked out heaps better than expected (as Smiley says, you don't know how something is going to turn out until you do it) and though we don't spend hours together everyday hanging on to each others words or 'doing stuff together' (like wathcing tv... ugh... like thats not even together in my book) we are the couple that you see walking by with our arms hooked into each others and looking happy when out and about.
We did have some conflicts to start with but we "expected them"..... like getting two cats to live in the same home, a little fur will fly....
Think osho said 'when you hold up a hand you see the fingers.... but some see what is between them, the spaces.... the fingers may move, but the space stays the same".... Spaces are important. They are the background and contrast for the interactions.

good luck anyway
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Especially when there is no cat....
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