Should i accept someone i love, wants to surrender life

Talk about relationships in the context of Spiritual Enlightenment
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gosp
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Should i accept someone i love, wants to surrender life

Post by gosp » Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:03 pm

Hello, this is my first post, I'll try to be quick and concise.

Should i accept someone i love, wants to surrender life?

I have a friend, I know for a year which commited serious suicidal attempts 3 times, last one was 2 months ago.

She says she has no hopes now, she is numb all the day, stay alone and play videos games whole days. She has so much anger. She's fearing rejection so much. She tells me she is attached to the one she became even she know she's wrong because it's impossible for her to change as she says.

I try my best to help her see a different reality, that she could think different. I am the only person she's talking to and somehow believe. But everytime i try to explain or express hopes she's allergic to it, her ego doesn't accept any help and keep saying its impossible.

I'm lost, i see my words doesn't make her change after months of conversations. She's getting deeper in her problems. What can or should I do? I know we all have different paths but should I accept her choice even it means she's letting herself die? If i accept that, what it makes me.. I want to be here for her.

tchest77
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Re: Should i accept someone i love, wants to surrender life

Post by tchest77 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:36 am

Very sad situation for your friend, I'm very sorry for your sadness and theirs as well.

She really needs medical mental health attention, and there could be free services and perhaps even anonymous services available online, and perhaps even a service that would go to her home. However, in either case, if she is seeming like she is suicidal, then you need to call the hospital and have her committed. This sounds bad, but I know a psychiatrist, and was told that if someone is suicidal and I am aware of it, then I am responsible for getting them help. There are a lot of services out there that will help, but going to the hospital to be evaluated is a step in the right direction, hospitals have protocol to situations like this, and you could call her nearest hospital to find out what that may be.

She needs serious help! Someone in this much pain can't even understand hope, hope doesn't exist for this person since pain is in charge. This is a person that could be healed and helped with the right intervention, and you aren't her psychiatrist or a mental health expert, and her healing will take time.

Outside of the above, all you can do is listen and demonstrate love. Actions will always speak louder than words, and this person is in desperate need of love and perhaps medication and an expert to help her to sort through her life.

You do not accept that someone wants to die, never! You have no control over them, but your influence and assistance can help, not guaranteed, and not your problem in the end, but necessary to help. If this was you, would you want to be left alone and then rationalized that you are in charge of your path? Or, would you, once stable, be thankful of the love and support of someone who did whatever they needed to do to help?

A good friend will put their relationship on the line in order to do what the right thing is to do.

gosp
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Re: Should i accept someone i love, wants to surrender life

Post by gosp » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:36 pm

Thank you for your reply tchest77, She spent one year already in hospital few years ago. I am in a situation where I can't call anyone, I don't know her exact place and name. That's because she's lacking trust a lot and being so much alone.

I pay attention to her a lot, but I have my limits too, I can't support being 100% of my time with her. And when I'm not around she's making up things on her head, thinking I don't like her, or gonna leave her. She's so much afraid of rejections that she's acting so much suspicious to everyone.
She can get angry for days and stop talking for a tiny detail, even when I did explain myself.

The thing is I'm not her therapist yes, but I try to help her even. I've been telling her, that consuming drugs, alcohool, smoke, starving is not good for her. But even she knows that, she doesn't care for herself, saying "well, whatever, I'm dead already inside". But I can clearly see it makes a difference when she don't consume it. The thing is, she said she tried already, that nothing new can happend, it will be the same.
And I've seen her try to make a move, actually she's asking too much for herself when she does, which, not surprisingly end up with a failure. That why she's thinking she can't make it.

She doesn't want to be helped at all. So I don't know what I can do appart from being there when she needs. But it's difficult for me seing that she's doing it to herself, being somehow aware of what she does and that I can't do anything.

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smiileyjen101
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Re: Should i accept someone i love, wants to surrender life

Post by smiileyjen101 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:38 am

Hi gosp, I'm confused - how can you be 100% with someone who - "I don't know her exact place and name"?

All you can do is be aware of how you are, and what you are triggering and experiencing fear about, and there are many examples in your post. Who will you be if she takes her own life? - you will be you, doing what you could within your awareness, capacity and willingness, distinctly compassionate, but separate to her doing whatever she does within her awareness, capacity and willingness.

The transfer of emotions between you both appears to be ... forgive me... not love (the equilibrium of gratitude and generosity). It appears more fear-based, there is a feigned rejection-dependency, closeness/distance, victim-hero-villain scenario playing out where characters change states.

While she emits helpless fear, it's what you experience by transfer of her response ability, to your responsibility.

It's not healthy for either of you. The more others adopt the responsibility for this person's choices, the less she exercises her own response ability.

While I agree that one should do what one can - within reasonable capacity - beating yourself up for not being able to help where it is not possible, by her choices and design, is you playing into the hero-victim-villain role play.

This may sound harsh, and I apologise for that. It comes from harsh reality in experience. You are not response able to manage another's life, or for their choices - full stop. To judge another's path is flawed by lack of knowledge of what their path actually is.

Sit with that.

How are you? Would you benefit from discussing this with a qualified counsellor? Call a helpline maybe?

Do any of the things you are thinking play in to the same sort of helplessness that your friend is playing into?

Embrace the serenity prayer - for your self, not for any other - that is -
call forth and enact the courage to do that which you can do,
call forth and embrace the serenity to accept that which you cannot do,
and, sit in peace with the wisdom to know the difference.

Wisdom, is merely knowledge, gained in experience and implemented with love. (Traci Harding)

My knowledge gained in experience, of friends who were helped by friends, and by professionals, but who had their mind set on taking their own lives:
Some succeeded, some did not.
Some who did not succeed live in agony, others in relief;
Some who did succeed, ended what they considered suffering too great to live with. Whether that was 'true' or 'false' is not, and never was, anyone else's to be able to decide for any other.

(As hard as that is for us to accept.)

There are many things I would like to say to you, for your health and well-being.
When presented with information / situations like this, it is hard to stay centred and healthy yourself, look after you. Like in an aeroplane emergency, you need to put the oxygen mask on you first, note only so that you remain able to survive, but also because without your own oxygen mask on, you will not be able to assist anyone else.

Recognise that you will be thrown into the emotions of grief, they are tricky at the best of times, but are especially difficult in these scenarios. Understand your emotions and learn how to manage them healthily.

Be particularly aware of boundaries, what is yours, what is not yours.

Make sure you are not being played by someone who thrives on this sort of attention, it is a terrible betrayal of trust and gratitude/generosity. When it is a genuine cry for help, in which the person can be helped, the person usually provides avenues for that assistance to be given, even if they put road blocks in at the same time.

The tricky part here is, (and either could be true), is the person being evasive and elusive because they really have the intention to succeed, or is it to string out an attention seeking thrill, that makes them feel alive and cared for?

Even professionals have a hard time distinguishing the difference. Hand it over to professionals in whatever way you can, but do accept that none of us is right all the time.

There is a book called 'Too soon old, too late smart'' by Dr Gordon Livingston (who lost one son to a terminal injury, and not too long after, another son to suicide). It has many gems of wisdom in it, but one that particularly resonated regarding his son's suicide was that it impacts those around them because it tells you that you are not enough, you doing, being, all that you can, is not enough for them to carry their pain. Not with you, and not for you. Whether in time they would have grown stronger, will never be known. Whether there was any more that could have been done, will never be known.

Humans by their nature are uncomfortable with uncertainty. Those left behind are left with these uncertainties.

The uncertainties abound within the experience of the person expressing these desires as well.

Ultimately, you can shine a light for her to find her way, but only she can choose.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

tchest77
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Re: Should i accept someone i love, wants to surrender life

Post by tchest77 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:03 am

I'd like to give further advice but first need some background:

Have you talked to her on the phone?
How long have you known this person?
Did you ever meet this person face to face?
How did you meet each other?
How old is she?

gosp
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Re: Should i accept someone i love, wants to surrender life

Post by gosp » Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:15 am

Hello smiileyjen101, thanks you for your wisdom reply,

While reading you, you just light out some aspect of my relationship with her that I was trying somehow, to ignore.
I think I was dependent to her, I mean I took the responsability to make her feel better which can't work obviously, but I've been blind on this because my deep nature always sees hopes specialy when it seems there is none. In short it was like: "You can't help yourself, Okay I am going to do it, follow my advices".

I always had that kind of problem in my life with friends or family, I was giving advices to few people, trying to make them change for their own good.
I know by now how wrong it is, stupid to say but I'm not god. In add as you can guess, I was/am lacking self-esteem a lot, I'm terribly affected by others judgments. I was probably feeding a need to feel usefull and alive by helping others.

By now, it's been around two months, she broke up for the second time with me because she says our relationship was making me unhappy.
She almost never asked me for help, she told me multiple times she would end it if she feels I get affected by her, that why I don't think she try to get my attention or steal my time.

I started Yoga, Meditation, read books on the subject (and the one you mentionned, which is really good, thanks). I feel calmer and Im making a forward about my depression.

I kept contact with her, we talked 2 days ago, and we have been able to talk about things she would have never wanted to hear about before. We know for one year now, and what makes me think I can help her it is because, I see her point of view moving by time. 6 months ago she was denying everything in block. Now I could make her questionning herself, her choices, her behaviours, and so on.

I am quoting her when I say the following, She says to me I am the only person she consider, with my kindness and that she felt I was really understanding her.

I reached a point where she giving me trust (and god knows that was difficult, she was so much on defence with everyone), that I can slowly speak about everything, and questionning things without making her react violently (which she does with others). She still having hopeless talks, but I really feel our conversations make her minding.

I don't want to be in relationship with her anymore, even I have feelings still. I try to put the right distance, but I admit it's hard, the nice thing is, we respect each other need for silence or time.

My question would be, I feel I have a positive effect on her, I mean our talks, but it is hard for me not to give advices, not to contradict her choices (smoking, starvation, point of view). You are saying and others (like therapists) that we can't actually help others, they are responsible for themselves and will pick in the other one what they need to learn. Should I stop giving advices ?

Isn't it really wrong to ignore some aspects of her life? (not eating, some drug, lack of sleep) even she says it's too difficult to change.
I feel like putting importance or pressure on thoses things would make her more distant and less receptive but on the other side, It seems so much important to me, that in my thinking that fixing it is a must have to make a forward.

Can someone feel better without thoses basics? (food, enought sleep, addictions). In fact it is a endless downing loop. Her life condition makes her feel bad which makes her consumre more of this. I don't know where to start cutting the loop (addictions or thoughts or boths)? Again I'm not taking responability, I ask it because when I get time to have such conversation, I also give her my point of view.

Finally, tchest77, I know her for 1 year now, we had on phone multiples times yes and I did not meet her as she lives in another country. We are both 27.

Sorry for my late reply and thanks you both.

Hope to see you soon there again.

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smiileyjen101
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Re: Should i accept someone i love, wants to surrender life

Post by smiileyjen101 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:16 am

Hi gosp. You are obviously a very empathetic person, and that needs careful attention - what is yours, what is not, where are the boundaries?

I'm glad to hear you are reading more and opening up to your own learning experiences.
My question would be, I feel I have a positive effect on her, I mean our talks, but it is hard for me not to give advices, not to contradict her choices (smoking, starvation, point of view). You are saying and others (like therapists) that we can't actually help others, they are responsible for themselves and will pick in the other one what they need to learn. Should I stop giving advices ?
I have this thing that can often be misunderstood - but if you sit with it - 'no choice is wrong, it just brings a different experience'.
So ... if you do 'contradict' and 'give advice' you and the 'other' will have an experience as you go through that interaction.
If that is the experience you and they want then you will keep doing it in interactions.

If it does not bring you joy and exhibit the gratitude and generosity that is love for self and other --- is it 'right' for you? Is it the experience that you would consciously choose for yourself? and, the other gets to ask them self the same questions and decide for their self.

What do you choose to experience?

Granting full freedom to others to be - do - experience - what they choose, and limit only what you choose to experience is the negotiation of unconditional love.

And yes, it's tricky at times.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

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