How Are You Managing?

Talk about relationships in the context of Spiritual Enlightenment
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spatialbean
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How Are You Managing?

Post by spatialbean » Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:49 am

Relationships with others is a hot button for me when it comes to my pain body and/or knee jerk reactions. I have lots of questions but I will just ask one for now.

How do you handle topics that come up with others that are so far flung from your current world view?

I have one particular relative that I love dearly. Her ideas about the state of the planet right now are so different from mine, though. She sees the current state as the work of the devil being in control of the planet and insists that things are worse than they ever have been in the history of the world. I know that things are critical, if you look at them from one angle, but I just don't share this world view and I don't think things are hopeless. And even if they are...well... we are practicing detachment. Love it and let go at the same time. All things must pass...(thank you George)

As an example, today she said "Things are so bad now." in relation to the two hurricanes and how we are all going to hell in a handbasket and I responded "But so much good comes out of the bad..." I didn't try to go into "please define "bad" for me...we don't know what is good and what is bad...etc...

What are your thoughts?

Claudia

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barbarasher
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Post by barbarasher » Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:26 pm

Claudia,

I join you in awaiting the wonderful answers to this question from the member so this forum.

I have the same issue with my mother, who is more depressed than usual lately. I asked why, she said because of "THE SITUATION". I really don't even want to know, but did ask a few times, and she just says, "We are at war" or something and I believe I really do not want to hear the rest.

Guest

Post by Guest » Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:09 pm

A world view is a thought.
A thought is a ripple on the surface of being.
It matters because it is a part of the all, but compared to the all, it does not matter absolutely.
My thoughts, your thoughts, their thoughts.....
All just waves on the surface of being.
Though the winds of change stir up waves
The center is always still
Always quiet
Always there, nothing more...
Just being
That is me
That is you
That is them
And beyond even these distinctions the changeless silence in which subject and object, saviour and sufferer, seeker and guru are merged into the still, indivisible One.
What else is there that is not just the play of an imagined reality?

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summer
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Post by summer » Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:24 am

My family and relatives can trigger my pain body in a instant. It can feel very frustrating often.

I mean, I can be listening to an Eckhart tape, or watching a beautiful sunset, and presence seems to fill my whole world. I finally know who I am.
And then the phone rings, and my mother is nagging about something and whoosh!!!!! I am a whiney little kid again :lol:

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Post by Jim » Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:35 pm

Hi,

Interestingly..., over the course of civilized humanity, war has been the predominate state.... statistically 93% of the time.
At 7%, peace time is hardly the egoic reality for the human race.

Eckhart says in his first book... "The collective egoic mind is the most dangerously insane and destructive entity ever to inhabit this planet."

Obviously, when we fall out of full presence…., the thoughts that are flowing thru us are heavily influenced by the collective egoic mind. This includes our reactions to those around us…, especially those we have a long history with.

I enjoyed the post by the guest about thoughts being but a ripple on the surface.

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spatialbean
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Post by spatialbean » Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:55 pm

I guess my question is more of what do you do? Mostly I just don't respond when internally there is an urge to respond. To say "There is another way to be in the world."

Barbara...is this your situation as well?

Ultimately yes, just ripples, but when to speak? Tolle's book is a ripple as well, but thank goodness he put the ripple in our view. He decided to speak.

I guess that is my answer, to speak what I know and let the receiver decide whether or not to pick it up, as you would make a decision on a book. If it speaks to you, you want to hear more, if it doesn't you let it go and walk away.

Jim
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Post by Jim » Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:46 am

Hi spatialbean,

I know you asked directly to Barbara, but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

In my experiance, what comes out of my mouth..., my *reaction* in daily relationships is either an acceptance or non-acceptance of what I'm receiving.
In my case, there is much non-acceptance rising in family and close relationships... in things that they say or do, their views and actions...

I am finding more and more often that I don't get so personally involved in anyones expressions..., the things they say or do. Having the understanding that we are all in this crazy world together, I know that my thoughts and feelings are not better than anyone else's, just different.

As probably with most folks, my wife and I both have some *totally* unconsious members in the family. And I find these to be some of my best teachers. Not that I recognize them as wrong (which i do), but they help me to awaken to the insanity of this world, in which opens me up to allow Presence to come forth.
2 cents,
Jim

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spatialbean
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Post by spatialbean » Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:53 am

Thanks Jim! Worth more than 2 cents!

Claudia

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barbarasher
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Post by barbarasher » Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:16 am

spatialbean and all,

I responded to your post because I identified with it and was hoping for some answers like you were, I suspect.
Mostly I just don't respond when internally there is an urge to respond.
Yes, that is what I do too.

I find that people rarely change their mind by convincing, and just enjoy a good (or bad) sparing (like a small battle) of opinions about any subject, especially one about which they are upset. Their ego gets into it so much that I don't find the interaction beneficial to me in any way.

I tend to think that what Jim says is reasonable, meaning
I don't get so personally involved in anyones expressions...,.
and that If I go around recognizing everyone else as wrong, I just suffer.

So I try to let them be, and let me be and not suffer and not take their situation personally and try to love them but not get too involved with the pain they are in because it sucks me in either because of my very sympathetic/empathic nature or because they are looking for someone to blame.

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Post by wildcrabink » Wed Nov 02, 2005 2:28 am

I always think it's interesting to watch what's going on with nature during tragedies. When I watched video footage of the tsunami or of hurricanes or even the World Trade Center crumbling, I always notice that there are birds flying around completely unaware that a "tragedy" is taking place underneath them. They just go about their business. I always wonder when I'm walking through a shopping mall which people are carrying a heavy burden of tragedy with them at that instant. Perhaps someone close to them has just died or maybe they are living with a horrible domestic situation. Yet I still continue on to the food court to purchase a smoothie which to them may seem somewhat heartless. The reality is we only consider it a personal tragedy when something we have identified with gets destroyed. If someone is saying the devil is destroying the world then it is my guess that they can't otherwise explain why things they wish were permanent are suddenly changing form. And maybe that thought will be the beginning of their awakening. Perhaps it is an occasion for you to rejoice inwardly?

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Post by Egoicmidget » Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:38 am

This subject brings to mind the observer the one present to observe the ego as it yearns to react and take charge using old emotional patterns.
I try to smile at my own reactions if I can catch them in time. :)
I find if I can be in that role(the witness or observer if you wish) I don't react because the ego is not there to defend it's imagined self.
Reaction is always based on non-surrender and a need to defend the illusory self. The ego.
My 2 cents

Thanks
John

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Post by CopperTop » Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:00 pm

Relationships with others is a hot button for me when it comes to my pain body and/or knee jerk reactions.
This applies for many of us. The answer lies in observing and responding, as apposed to reacting.

How do you handle topics that come up with others that are so far flung from your current world view?
Perhaps not by ‘Handling” them. Do not focus on them. Do not argue with them. Do Not judge them. Do not evaluate them. Do not try and follow them, or ‘Figure them out’ -- Just simply listen to them. Observe them. And perhaps most of all, Love them.
I have one particular relative that I love dearly. Her ideas about the state of the planet right now are so different from mine, though. She sees the current state as the work of the devil being in control of the planet and insists that things are worse than they ever have been in the history of the world.

Perhaps this is true. Is there any harm in agreeing with her? Does it threaten your state of presence or who you are to agree with her?

A personal perspective on that topic would be this:
Things are in a bit of a critical stage. The “Devil” and even “evil” its self are irrelevant. But certainly such “forces” could be perceived as being responsible with all that we currently face. - We of-course being the human race and that of our planet.
The question is; who is at risk here? The planet or us?
One would imagine the planet is getting quite tired of everything that has been done to it recently. It is need of some well deserved therapy, and a bit of a re-charge. Sooner or later our mother earth may very well make repairs to its self. That is good for the planet, but not necessarily good for those of us living on the surface of that planet.
So it all comes down to semantics – Who or what is in danger? – and what be the true or root source of such danger?

The above perspective is only shared as an example. If it is too irritating to your pain bodies to agree with her, then just listen. Offer examples that will agree with her, but at the same time, may very well support your own perspectives.
If nothing else, perhaps you can offer questions that will challenge her to think about things a little deeper, perhaps also challenging yourself. And certainly if you can enter into such “thoughts” together, then the pain bodies will be eliminated and the egos lose their hold upon you.



I know that things are critical, if you look at them from one angle, but I just don't share this world view and I don't think things are hopeless.
Things are only hopeless when we make them so. Many would agree that it is very easy to fall into hopelessness. So why should the opposite be so difficult to obtain?
have the same issue with my mother, who is more depressed than usual lately. I asked why, she said because of "THE SITUATION". I really don't even want to know, but did ask a few times, and she just says, "We are at war" or something and I believe I really do not want to hear the rest.
Perhaps you should listen? But Only listen. As to say do not judge, do not try to rationalize, you do not even need to understand. Just listen.

If depression is present, then certainly the ego is in control. Do not feed that ego. Just simply allow it to be, observe it, and in doing so you may very well allow it to pass. Do not fight such egos. Simply allow them to be, observe them, embrace them, and then perhaps they will cease to be.
I mean, I can be listening to an Eckhart tape, or watching a beautiful sunset, and presence seems to fill my whole world. I finally know who I am.
And then the phone rings, and my mother is nagging about something and whoosh!!!!! I am a whiney little kid again.
Happens to us all; the trick is to ‘Respond’ as apposed to ‘React’.
Perhaps something that may help, next time you feel this happening, just allow it to be.
Observe if able – such things can sometimes be difficult though – but even if your unable to observe it, after the fact, do not make a problem out of the fact you reacted as apposed to responded. If you make a problem out of it, then that is exactly what it will be. If however you just allow it to be, you may find yourself responding more than reacting.


weichen
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Respond to anything with stillness

Post by weichen » Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:43 pm

Originally posted by Summer
My family and relatives can trigger my pain body in a instant. It can feel very frustrating often. I mean, I can be listening to an Eckhart tape, or watching a beautiful sunset, and presence seems to fill my whole world. I finally know who I am. And then the phone rings, and my mother is nagging about something and whoosh!!!!! I am a whiney little kid again
Great topics Summer!

I am doing very very very poor in this area myself, but I think I am improving with ET's "stillness response to everything" technique. It rarely resolved my mental anxiety completely, but it often crack open a temporal opening (my mind, for at least a second, was OFF running old thinking and was ON helping me to see some truth).

Sometime I see the wisdom immediately during the encounter if stillness cracks open a big opening, I am able to take correct action such as giving that person a hug. Often stillness only cracks a small opening, take some steam (momentum) away from old reactive mind, I am still feeling very bad, but my mind quiets down faster, (my stillness,i.e. not talking back, not criticising, not even commenting also help the other person to quiet down faster), several minutes after the encounter, (while what has happened in the encounter is still fresh), I always receive new insights, although it is delayed.

As soon as I receive a wisdom, I wrote that down in my jounal, reinforcing to my mind that how stillness help me successfully deal with that encounter, and let my wife read my jounal.

Here are some wisdom I have wrote down
1. when my wife is complaining, just give her a big hug, sometimes she forgot about what she was complaining about. Maybe complaining is just her way of asking for a big hug.
2. my mom often criticize other people over the phone, but if I keep calling her every week (rather than every month), she stops criticizing other people. Maybe my mon's criticizing other is due to dissapointment to me (her son)
3. if my wife keep criticising one person for a few dozens of time (hugging her did not help). When she is quiet, I reflect to her that she has been criticising that person for so many times and asked her if her intention was to condition her mind to assert herself in the next encounter with that person (or other people in similar situations), that seem to quiet her down.
4. no matter how wrong I believe another person is, he must have at least one point to teach me. When a person claims that "the elephant is just like a rope", instead of rolling on floor laughing, learn from that person, he has a point there.
5. when I catch myself getting angry at another person easily, it often has nothing to do with that person, it could be I have been dissapointed at myself lately, or I have unresolved issue with that person.

the wisdom I received would be very different from yours, you are on your own growing path, but STILLNESS can accelerate your growth as it has done so to mine.

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Re: Respond to anything with stillness

Post by sharon614 » Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:32 am

(I don't know how to get a quote in that white box, but someone just wrote:

5. when I catch myself getting angry at another person easily, it often has nothing to do with that person, it could be I have been dissapointed at myself lately, or I have unresolved issue with that person.

the wisdom I received would be very different from yours, you are on your own growing path, but STILLNESS can accelerate your growth as it has done so to mine.[/quote]"



This was very helpful to me. I found myself getting angry very quickly
at my boss. And it's only been a year. I know I have unresolved issues.
I'm just not quite sure how to resolve them. But stillness is a great start.
I try being still at various points in the day. But there seems to be
a button that I can't even find, let alone bring my consciousness to it.
This button is way under the surface. It's pushed and I go like a robot.
Wish I knew what to do.
- Sharon

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Post by Atash » Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:11 am

World views are determined by self-identity. Make sure that you have really let that self-identity go, before believing that someone else is deluded by her own self-identity but believing yourself to be seeing things as they are.

People who have let go of their identities and their egos don't get the urge to correct their loved ones. They accept what is, even if they intend to change it. ET describes a 3-way choice: acceptance, change, or get away from the situation. Acceptance is always an option and sometimes the only one.

The answer for the original question is that you handle drastically different worldviews by listening with full attention. If appropriate, ask questions. If you were really paying attention, you will be more likely to ask intelligent, nonconfrontational questions. Accept the beliefs and the actions of the other person, even if you don't agree with them and/or would like to change them. Nobody is ever going to tell you "You were right, and I was wrong. I'm glad you showed me how I was wrong." At least, not sincerely.

You rarely (only in emergencies, or when it is really important) need to tell anyone that they are wrong. Their own contradictions will do that, if you ask the right questions.

If the person objects to the questions, stop asking them, because when that happens there is no point in continuing. If that is the case, you might simply listen with an occassional "I understand" (even if I don't agree), and just let it go.

If you want to change the other person's point of view, accept your success or failure such as it is.

I suggest trying not to directly contradict people. It's usually unnecessary. If she said "things are so bad," because of the hurricanes, first acknowledge that hurricanes do cause pain and misery. Then would be your chance for talking about the positive angle, such as opportunities for helping the victims (in fact that would be a good time to hit her up for a donation!). :wink:
The bird flies out of its shell, which is the world. The bird flies up to God. The name of that God is ABRAXIS.

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