Confused.

Talk about relationships in the context of Spiritual Enlightenment
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lilly83
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Confused.

Post by lilly83 » Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:49 am

Hi all, i am only new to this website and have been reading and living in presence and awareness for not all that long! But it has changed my life in an unbelievable way. I have been on my spirtual path for years now but it isnt till now after reading the power of now, that i see the truth of human existence. I have been learning from a guy who i have been seeing who is also very present and aware and we have a intimate relationship and share these same beliefs and we truly do get along very well and can be present and aware in each others company. The thing is, he tells me that he does not want anything more from me than a friendship even though we are intimate and share an amazing connection in awareness together. Though the other night he got a call from a girl and was talking to her for awhile and left me waiting in his loungeroom for over half an hour. I felt the feeling of jealousy and i observed this, but than it turned to anger. So i went home and i just feel confused as what to do. I accept that he sais he doesnt feel the same way i do, but its what action i take next, i dont know if i can handle seeing him with other girls, so is it best that i accept he doesnt like me and cut him out of my life until i feel ready to speak to him without those feelings, or should i accept that he doesnt like me and continue to be his friend. Its hard because we have the most amazing connection and are very close, is it an ego thing to walk away, or is it the action i have to do to accept this situation. Im just confused as what to do. should i let go of a close friend as that is how its meant to be at this time, or accept it as it is and continue the friendship, im so confused.

regards
jaclyn

suraj
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Post by suraj » Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:59 am

i dont know if i can handle seeing him with other girls, so is it best that i accept he doesnt like me and cut him out of my life until i feel ready to speak to him without those feelings, or should i accept that he doesnt like me and continue to be his friend
.
Don't accept whatever the mind says. Don't believe that the guys like you or doesn't like you.And don't cut him out. That would be surely ego.
IMHO , love flows when we don't try to give it a name. Let love be.
:) Even I am struggling with the same dilemma as yours and here I am lecturing to you.
I AM

fifi
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confused

Post by fifi » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:13 am

Hi lily83 :) Try relatating to him when theres something to relate about

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Re: Confused.

Post by redindira » Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:56 pm

From your post I am not able to make out whether you have read "The New Earth" by Eckhart Tolle, where he discusses thoroughly about the EGO and the Painbody.
Some quotes from The New Earth-
"The Primary cause of Unhappiness is never the situation but your thoughts about it.Be aware of the thoughts you are thinking.Separate them from the situation, which is always neutral, which is always as it is.Be aware that what you think, to a large extent ,creates the emotions that you feel.See the link between your thinking and your emotions.Rather than being your thoughts and emotions, be the awareness behind them.
Don't seek happiness(in your case friendship/relationship).If you seek it, you won't find it,because seeking is the antithesis of happiness.Happiness is ever elusive,but freedom from unhappiness is attainable now,by facing what Is rather than making up stories about it.Unhappiness covers up your natural state of well being and inner peace, the source of true happiness.
Anger,resentment,Jealousy etc.strengthens the ego enormously by increasing the sense of separateness, emphasizing the otherness of others and creating a seemingly unassailable fortress like mental position of "rightness"."
Last edited by redindira on Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
indira

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sparks
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Re: Confused.

Post by sparks » Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:58 pm

Hi and welcome to the board. :D

When I read your post, I remembered some dialogs from Byron Katie's Work on relationships. The one that stuck out the most was about a woman whose husband had been having an affair. She still loved him but wanted him to stop the affair...he didn't want to. With Katie's help, she was able to honor her feelings of "I love you and I'm leaving." Leaving does not have to be done in anger or jealousy, it can be done out of an honoring of one's feelings about something.

The second thing I noticed (I may be wrong) is that you're not sure what the "right and conscious" way to handle this is. There is no such thing. There is only letting yourself be as you are, acting or reacting the way you do, while noticing and allowing it to be as it is. Can you talk to him while being angry and jealous, knowing you're being that way, and letting it happen anyway? There's a very different energy to that kind of interaction. There's a space that allows things to be as they are, and creates a place of mutual sharing without condemning, even when very strong feelings are being expressed.

The problem comes in when there is a lack of the watcher. The ego doesn't like to be seen as jealous or petty, or to feel the pain of such things. It will try to use spiritual practices to avoid pain and always appear to be in control of everything. True feelings need to be acknowledged, especially since they can often point out areas where you are abusing yourself for the sake of ego.

Eckhart mentioned somewhere (during a lecture, I believe) that people who try to be "spiritual" will do things like suppress anger because it's not "spiritual" to be angry. That suppressed anger eventually explodes outwards as depression, which is anger that is not allowed.

What about jealousy? If you suppress it, you make it worse. If you allow it, you might realize that you're depriving yourself of freedom in hopes of having something work out. That's trying to manipulate events through self-sacrifice. That's not love. Love is freedom...freedom given to oneself and others. If you want a relationship and he doesn't, acknowledging and honoring that you feel that way will somehow change things. You might end up still being friends with him and feeling perfectly ok seeing him with other women, because by honoring yourself you realize that you don't want what he's giving. It's hard to describe, but the love that is present when you value yourself and honor your inner space is very healing. Something you wanted very badly no longer bothers you because you sort of feel like you're open to something even better happening for you.

I don't know if I've expressed this very well or not, but the main point is this:
Before worrying about how to be with someone else, you need to look inside and see how to be with yourself. Denying your feelings is being in an abusive relationship with yourself. The only way to learn about yourself is to let yourself be as you are while watching and allowing whatever comes up...even the dark, destructive side. :mrgreen:

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Suzanne
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Re: Confused.

Post by Suzanne » Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:35 pm

lilly83 wrote: we have a intimate relationship /The thing is, he tells me that he does not want anything more from me than a friendship even though we are intimate
Dear Jaclyn,

I'm confused, too. You're intimate together, yet he says he's looking at other women?

Doesn't sound like he's all that present, to me. Nor enlightened.

This is old fashioned, but, honestly, if you don't have a mutual agreement for monogamy, then being intimate will cause feelings of hurt. You don't trust him, and so, personally, I'd advise you not to be intimate with him, either.

And if he doesn't want anything more from you, then what do you really have?

Sounds like classic committment issues to me. Do you really want this? If this is not the way your true self feels it should be, then unattach from him and find your own peace. :wink:

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lilly83
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Re: Confused.

Post by lilly83 » Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:23 am

Thankyou for all your replies. I continued in this relationship with this guy sharing what it is we have, we share our ideas and thoughts about the spiritual world and talk about the books we have read etc, we talk about everything under the sun and still being intimate. Though the other day he told me that he is leaving to go live in perth in australia where im from to work over in the mines, probably in janurary and it brought many emotions up for me, and i let it all out how ifeel about him. I told him how it is hard for me as i feel more for him and he doesnt, and he just said that he could only emphathise with me as he doesnt share the same feelings. Apart of me felt upset that he had continued this intimate relationship knowing how i felt about him, but then it was my choice to continue to stay and beintimate with him, so i dont feel any anger towards him what so ever. We both agree that we share a kindred connection, but he obviously doesnt see it in the way i do. Its hard to let go of someone who i know is a true soulmate of mine, but i have accepted the situation is as it is, and is meant to be this way for the good of myself. i surrended to the situation as this is how it is and nothing will change this situation. I told him that i need time to heal from this situation and then i will be able to remain his friend, as its very rare to find the connection we have, and i wont let my ego get in the way of our friendship. It has taught me about when you surrender to what is, to a situation that is deemed bad by the ego, that when you do surredner to what is, you do feel that inner peace that has no opposite, and it is these situations that are deemed as 'bad' by the ego, that are for our higher good.

Suzanne, you wrote that it sounds like classic commitment issues, he told me the last night isaw him when we had a big chat about this, that he does have personal issues to sort out before he can think of being serious, so he does have commitment issues, but see i cant hold on to the false hope that he will one day resolve that issue and what to be with me, i have to detattch from my feelings from him and as you say find my own inner peace. And im old fashioned aswell, thats why this situation has confused me for the year we spent being intimate together. hope this makes sense!

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lilly83
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Re: Confused.

Post by lilly83 » Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:25 am

sparks wrote:Hi and welcome to the board. :D


The problem comes in when there is a lack of the watcher. The ego doesn't like to be seen as jealous or petty, or to feel the pain of such things. It will try to use spiritual practices to avoid pain and always appear to be in control of everything. True feelings need to be acknowledged, especially since they can often point out areas where you are abusing yourself for the sake of ego.
:mrgreen:
This is so true and i complertely understand what your saying, it makes so much sense to me now reading this and i cant explain how this one paragraph has helped me, but thankyou.

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Suzanne
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This has been a learning experience, for sure!

Post by Suzanne » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:24 am

Dear Lilly,
I think it's great that you are living in the world and letting your heart have its way. Sorry this didn't become a partnership for you. That is a loss, but you'll be stronger for it. It won't destroy the real you, just the fairy tale wishes we all grow up with and have to abandon, eventually, to get to real peace.

Eckhart would be saying, "Nothing is permanent. All dissolves. Everything is in a state of flux. The attempt at permanence is an illusion, a myth, guaranteed to cause suffering." Sorry you had to be the one to prove it to all of us! :cry:

With all the suffering, I still think you're ahead of some people I know who never even attempt a partnership, and never leave themselves vulnerable to these lessons. You get an A+ for trying! As they say, "you have to pay to play." I guess it's time to pay, and it's not going to feel too good.

After he's gone, and you get some distance from it and can turn around and look at your relationship in one large glance, the lessons will come, and you'll be wiser for them. Every relationship is a gift. Just remember we're all part of the whole, and the emptiness you're about to feel is not as real as it first seems. Let it all go and you'll eventually be lighter and freer and enjoy the life you have more fully. I'm living proof of that.

Take care! Big hug!
Suzanne

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sparks
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Re: Confused.

Post by sparks » Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:56 am

lilly83 wrote:
sparks wrote:Hi and welcome to the board. :D


The problem comes in when there is a lack of the watcher. The ego doesn't like to be seen as jealous or petty, or to feel the pain of such things. It will try to use spiritual practices to avoid pain and always appear to be in control of everything. True feelings need to be acknowledged, especially since they can often point out areas where you are abusing yourself for the sake of ego.
:mrgreen:
This is so true and i complertely understand what your saying, it makes so much sense to me now reading this and i cant explain how this one paragraph has helped me, but thankyou.
Glad it helped. :D

That's what we're all here for. It's like a potluck...everyone contributes something and you get to pick what works best for you.

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Re: Confused.

Post by erict » Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:09 am

The way I see it, it is the most typical egoic phenomenon, this need to be the only one/the most important one in a romantic relationship. Few things hurt the ego as much as this does. If you look at it rationally, does it make any sense to give up a good thing - an incredible bond - just because the other person doesn't wish to limit himself to you only (thus satisfying this deep egoic need)? But these things, they are not rational, and it is terribly painful for a fragile ego to be in such a situation. Who knows what is the right thing to do?

I think that in the end, "relationships", "monogamy" and all that are just a part of our story. Maybe life would be easier, to focus less and less on the "story" and more on each experience as it comes along. Isn't it kind of stupid, for example, to decide in a moment of pain that you are never going to be close with a certain person again, and then some time later, you find yourself in a situation, where being close feels like the most natural and "right" thing to do, and not do it just because you've previously decided otherwise? Anyway, I think I'm trying to make a simple point in a very long and complicated way. Don't seek to fix/resolve the situation, just do what feels right in each moment as it happens.


Suzanne wrote:I'm confused, too. You're intimate together, yet he says he's looking at other women?

Doesn't sound like he's all that present, to me. Nor enlightened.
So anyone who becomes enlightened functions only within the limitations of monogamy?
"Be sincere; don't ask questions out of mere interest. Ask dangerous questions—the ones whose answers could change your life."

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Re: Confused.

Post by Sw Anand Devagni. » Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:57 pm

Dear Jaclyn,

Although I am under no circumstances an expert in relationships, my Being recoiled when I read the phrase 'cut him out of my life'. As I would respectfully put it, it seems to me that this is most definitely an ego strategy which belies the fact that you may be testing him subconsciously to see whether he comes back; whether he really loves you.

May I point you to 'Stepping Out of Fear' by Krishnananda which offers very practical and yet profound penetrating insights into the workings of our pain body.

Much love,

Sw A D.

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lilly83
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Re: Confused.

Post by lilly83 » Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:50 pm

hi Sw A D.

Your right by me cutting him out of my life, i think it is an ego strategy subconsciously to test whether he will come back to me or not. But the strange thing is now, iv had time to accept it and i do feel a sense of peace about the whole situation, sometimes i do feel the emotion of sadness but i just observe it let it flow and it goes away and its not appearing as much as it did. Iv noticed that when i directly observe the emotions that come about by fear or the ego wanting to resist what it is, they diminish when you just focus and observe how they react in your body and they do eventually dissolve and become weaker and weaker every time they appear. I wont be cutting him out of my life, we have too much of an amazing connection to cut him out, and im sure my feelings for him will not be as strong as they were, and when he does be with another women then so be it, i may be with another man by then haha! just kidding but you know i guess you have to have a sense of humor about life and not take it so serious. I know now that i am on another learning path which is why this has happened, so really there isnt much to dwell upon, my soul is taking a new course in life, and all i can say is bring it on.

lilly83

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Suzanne
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Re: Confused.

Post by Suzanne » Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:25 am

erict wrote:So anyone who becomes enlightened functions only within the limitations of monogamy?
I don't think monogamy is too much to ask in an intimate relationship, no. Trust is the foundation of a close relationship. He had not made it clear to her that he wasn't going to be monogamous, and that's when this thread started.

As long as partners are honest about the nature of their relationship, they are of course free to create it together in their own fashion. But Lilly said she didn't think she could bear to see him with other women. Thus, her suffering.

In any case, I would never presume to know what all enlightened people think/feel/believe about anything. Of course, they would all be different.

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Re: Confused.

Post by tikey » Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:14 pm

I just dont understand anything from that situation. It seems to me that at least one of you is unenlightened, but somehow I understand your pull towards
him lilly (I'm not a girl, but I have a similar expirience with a girl). So you feel that you deeply relate, you deeply feel that there is "something" beetween
you. Heh.Strange but I had the same. But the question is that: do you truly "live" that specialness, do you laugh together and feel inseparable, or do you
only talk about spirituality. Man, if you were both "spiritual" not "egoic" Im sure that you would LIVE the spiritual life rather than TALK about it.
And when (I supposethe problem is with YOU Lilly not with this boy) you would live spiritually (you would get rid of your ego, your problems, all the
unneccecary baggage you propably bring into this relationship) you would together join in communion and then he would REALISE that
you are really the "girl for him", and this "connection" beetween you and him would propably work, and you wouldn't have those problems as "I see we
are made for ourselves, but he can't see it".
You have to show him. You have to live what you know, not only know this and keep telling him that you know this and that he should know this too.
Lilly I talk from my own experience. I had a girl in my life which I admired greatly, but I was completely, maximally "ego trapped" so being with her
I was always talking about my problems, and yes somehow about spirituality and psychology. And I realised she has the same "insight" as me and that
(if I just would be "normal") we could make a great pair, and I thought even that we are "destined to be together". It may be truth, but somehow
she didn't see what I have seen, because the ego is the mechanism which pull you away from your destiny. And now as we are not meeting anymore
(she finally met other "normal" boy) Im practicing the power of now and I realised that when I step out of my ego, I can realise my own destiny, make that something, what is called "self realization" , I can call her and then this "connection" happens and then suddenly she sees in my the same I see in her.
That's possible for you Lilly too!!! I hope you understand of what I'm saying cause it's a bit weired stuff to mess with the mechanics of life. That's
the difference between "spiritual" and "wanna be spiritual". The first live it, the second think about it. I'm good at theory, but maybe, somehow the
knowledge I just passed to you will not fit your needs... I don't know. Let me know if it helped you.

Keep it up, don't loose hope, and don't misinterpret "being surrendered" with "taking no action towards this boy" true surrender is tha action itself.
It's the best action you can take. That's why it's so powerfull.

See you soon on other topics and stay in touch with yourself, make a breakthrugh and realize your own truth. Go, go, go!
Im just a cloudless sky :)

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