Help

Talk about relationships in the context of Spiritual Enlightenment
lancealmekian
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Help

Post by lancealmekian » Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:03 pm

I don't know if it's right to put all these here, but I need help.
I have been in this relationship for 5 months but a part of me (my ego of course) wants to get away from it all and break up with the girl I'm with (who is about to give birth to my kid).

She's a really sweet girl, simple, intelligent and down to earth, only problem is (and thoughts of this makes me REALLY anxious) I think she's not beautiful enough for me and although a lot of people say she is pretty ,me , I just have issues when it comes to beauty -- I've had it since highschool and college, because I never got to hook up with any chick those days -- I was lacking the confidence that I have now, I was only able to get confident enough when I studied pick-up arts over the internet (which I think triggered my long-repressed anxiety and depression -- I got them just February of last year) but I think it might have screwed with my mind because eversince I learned how to attract women I always had this thinking that I was alpha and I deserve nothing but the best.

Whenever thoughts of her not being beautiful enough for me, thoughts of her not being a virgin anymore and thoughts of me just being caught up with this unfair situation that my girl's not good-looking come into my mind I immediately get into panic mode (my heart pounds, my head hurts, I get sweaty all over and I wanna break up with her) but when it subsides I just cool down a bit and say to myself "don't be crazy, she's got nothing to do with this, it's your mind playing you a moment ago" then I give her a hug and feel as if there's nothing else in the world I belong to but in her arms (that's when the thought I love her comes in).

I have been studying ET's work and putting some to practice but it really is hard to defeat my anxiety (I know, you guys may say I don't need to defeat it, I can learn to live with it and enjoy it, but I think I won't be able to make my girl and my unborn kid happy if I don't get rid of it).

Please help. There isn't a lot of great shrinks here in the Philippines.

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coriolis
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Re: Help

Post by coriolis » Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:52 pm

So you know that it's only a thought that says "She's not beautiful enough for me".
Then you are probably also aware that "beautiful" in the context of "She's not beautiful enough for me" is also no more than a thought built from your thoughts about the thoughts of others' thoughts on what "beautiful" is "supposed to be".

She's a really sweet girl, simple, intelligent and down to earth

In actual practice what could possibly be more beautiful than that?
And no girl you're with for long is going to remain a "virgin" is she?
And any other girl you wake up next to in the morning is not going to look as "beautiful" as she did the evening before when your more alert brain was projecting it's fantasies on her.
So your quest for a girl who is "beautiful enough for you" will work out to be no more in practice than a dog chasing after it's own tail.
See it, love it, and enjoy raising the child you and your "truly beautiful" girl have invited into this world.
Look deeply inside yourself and try to find yourself.
The ensuing failure is the true finding
---- Wu Hsin

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Webwanderer
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Re: Help

Post by Webwanderer » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:32 pm

Well said coriolis. Be clear lancealmekian, so long as you define beauty on looks alone you will never experience beauty in its true essence. Appearances are transient, they cannot last. True beauty however, deepens over time and manifests in ways that is beyond the eyes ability to perceive. If you are honest in your search for beauty you will only recognize it through your heart. You already know this on some level or you wouldn't be laboring over it.

Be honest with yourself. Be willing to live with truth and integrity. The alternitive is to allow ego to drag you around chasing whims and imaginings.

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Onceler
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Re: Help

Post by Onceler » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:53 am

Web is dead on.

Put beauty aside, do the right thing. Your child has nothing to do with mom's beauty. My humble advice.
Be present, be pleasant.

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Re: Help

Post by fifi » Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:01 pm

Hey :( see if this helps....

Just kneel down with her or whatever seems fitting. back to back( get comfy, put a candle on or something you enjoy being around)

Get comfy, sit comfy back to back.lean on each other. be in your body and the feelings, she be in her body and with her feelings , breathe with her. Allow whatever images/thoughts/emotions you have of her and anything else to melt away down the river. ask her to send her your energy through your top part of the back,(whatever that may be) through the movements of her breath. sense the energy without thoughts/judgements and mind stuffs.

when you have absorbed enough of her energy.....

and then ask yourself if you resonate well with her energy she sends. when images or,/feelings/smells/tastes/sounds appear.....there will be your answer. all else that happens will come from your spirit that knows best whats best for you. Your not here to please others, your here to be at the service of your spirit :D

lancealmekian
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Re: Help

Post by lancealmekian » Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:22 pm

Onceler wrote:Web is dead on.

Put beauty aside, do the right thing. Your child has nothing to do with mom's beauty. My humble advice.
Thanks, I shall follow your advice.

@ fifi

I am willing to try anything, and I really wanna try this, just that I don't know how to melt anything away down the river... :? uhhh perhaps you can teach me some more? Oh and I love the last part of your reply, my being at the service of my spirit and all.

@ web wanderer

Yes on some level I know... that's why I'm struggling... it's just that there are times when I feel bad because of the fact that there has to be a struggle... awww... :( that's another thing about it I guess... just thinking that there is a struggle when there shouldn't be makes me super anxious.

Uhhh how do you guys stay conscious and observe your minds without being swayed by your emotions... or how do you handle anxiety/panic attacks? Some quick tips would be really helpful, I appreciate it.

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Webwanderer
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Re: Help

Post by Webwanderer » Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:57 pm

lancealmekian wrote:Yes on some level I know... that's why I'm struggling... it's just that there are times when I feel bad because of the fact that there has to be a struggle... awww... :( that's another thing about it I guess... just thinking that there is a struggle when there shouldn't be makes me super anxious.
That is a major part of the struggle, thinking there shouldn't be one, judging ourselves as deficient when we don't measure up to some idea of "rightness". It's okay to struggle. It's just how things are given the current content of conditions and the ego/mind's distorting perceptions. Freedom comes from our willingness to be with those conditions without judging them (or ourselves) as wrong. Everyone has struggles of some kind and yet we persevere, so it must be okay to have them. Is anything so satisfying as overcoming difficult challenges?
Uhhh how do you guys stay conscious and observe your minds without being swayed by your emotions... or how do you handle anxiety/panic attacks? Some quick tips would be really helpful, I appreciate it.
Recognition of being without mental definement. It is the ego/mind that creates the circumstances for anxiety and panic attacks. The constant spinning of stories based on fear of what might be fuels the emotions that cause us concern. You can't excape the emotions once active, but you don't have to continue feeding them with more imaginings and judgments. Just observe (sensually) whatever feelings are present - anxiety, fear, anger, depression et al. Relax with them without resistance, justification or thought of any kind. Feel them fully without any attempts to analyze or justify or understand. Without additional fuel they will burn out and clarity can return. Once free of strong emotions it becomes easier to observe random thought and the ego based inclination to create self-serving perceptions.

lancealmekian
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Re: Help

Post by lancealmekian » Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:29 pm

Thank you so much for the immediate reply. Can you tell me how to feel without thinking? I'm finding it difficult to feel the emotion (anxiety, depression whatnot) without describing what it is that I am feeling, and when you describe something, you use your mind right? Like for instance, when I'm feeling anxious, I feel like my chest has some void that needs to be filled, and my breathing gets shallow and the back of my head pulsates and it hurts (I have no medical condition that causes that though). Isn't that just me trying to divert my attention and not really trying to resolve the problem by facing it head on?
When you say feel it sensually, how do you exactly do it? How do you prevent the mind from labelling whatever it is you're feeling?
Oh and sorry if sometimes I sound so demanding, I am humbly asking for your advice, if there was only a quick way to kill my ego I'd have done it a long time ago... I want you all to know that you all are doing a very helpless person (me) a very huge favor... thank you sincerely for all your output.

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Webwanderer
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Re: Help

Post by Webwanderer » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:06 pm

Can you tell me how to feel without thinking?
Put your hand under the faucet and adjust the water temperature as it flows over your skin. Perceive the nature of that temperature without discribing it in any way. Be open to the sensation without interpretation. Just feel the water as it changes temperature, warm and cool - hot and cold are just words. Be curious, not descriptive. Descriptions and words are just labels that offer no reality in and of themselves.

Now look around your room and observe the objects you see without the usual labels you normally assign them. A lamp does not change its funtion just because it has no identifying label. Next pretend for a moment that you have no name. Do you not have a sense of being regardless of the name you were assigned at birth? Live for a few moments in the simple awareness of being awake.

In the same way one can feel any sensation without the need to define it. Sensations have unique charactoristics regardless of any descriptive terms we may assign them.

Adopt a sense of unknowing wonderment in your life. You're on a life-long ride to an unknown destination, and the scenery (read experience)is always new.

There is more to say on the subject but I'm short on time. Maybe some of our other posters will chime in to offer some tips on making the distinction between thought and sensation.

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kiki
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Re: Help

Post by kiki » Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:28 pm

To begin with, the idea that you have to kill the ego is one that is counter-productive because all such efforts only keep the ego going. Instead, come to see that the ego isn't real; when that is seen to be the case then there will be a dissolving of identification with ego. With that disidentification the ego will still arise but will no longer cause the trouble it currently does; one will no longer get sucked into it and get lost there.

Use times when you aren't feeling emotional turmoil to simply look at things without commentary - just return again and again to what's actually before you, the naked sensory input of it. When you find that you've strayed into thought return to what's actually real. This will be training ground for when you do experience emotional turmoil. When that happens, turn attention very closely to what is actually felt, the naked sensory input, and when labels about those sensations arise return again to the actual sensation. Do this again and again.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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astaroth
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Re: Help

Post by astaroth » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:01 am

Your struggles with the ego (which is a struggle with something what is not real) won't be succesful, as it has been said before. As long as you are still identified with what you call "me", your personal story, with "your" thoughts. This story is nothing but thoughts.

I would advice you not to make your goal to overcome what you want to be rid of. Instead, find out what you are. If this is seen, what is mentally labeled as a "problem" will still be there, but the perspective from which it is seen will have changed. And this change of perspective is the only thing that will give you freedom. The root of all "problems" is the identification with yourself. Don't waste your time pulling weed. Solving "problems" is like pulling weed. Believe me, there will grow new weed as long as you haven't found the root of all the weed, the identification with yourself. Wake up from your story, see that it is only a story, wake up from yourself.

Find out what you are. I say "what" instead of "who" because what you really are doesn't have a name, nor a gender. There is always something which just sees every kind of thought which tries to describe what you are. What you really are could be called life or even god, whatever you want. No thought can describe what is looking through your eyes, what is the seeing, because this thought then is seen again. There is no self, as the Buddha said. The thoughts about the thought-constructed protagonist in this world, about you, are percieved by a nameless something. You are the seeing, not the seen.

What flows out of this seeing which you really are is the present moment. All your life there has been the pure seeing in the background, not noticed, because the focus was on the content of the seeing. If you have found out that you are nothing inside the present moment, not the story called "me", you will find out that you are not from this world, hehe :lol:
When you are inside the story of yourself, at the borders of the present moment there is time. When you are in the reality of now, at the borders there is only an endless nothingness.

Imagine all your life has been a movie in which a guy called "lancealmekian" played his part very well, because he believed in his screenplay. And suddenly this guy finds out that he is not "lancealmekian". He is what is sitting in the cinema. The movie maybe was not always nice. And maybe there will be new trouble inside the movie. But the guy in the cinema doesn't care at all what may happen to the protagonist in the cinema. The observer is not disturbed. Never. The seeing doesn't care what is seen in the present moment.

Behind the names, what is looking through your eyes is the same what is looking through your girlfriend's eyes.

When you have found out for yourself (because seeing it for yourself is the only thing that will give you freedom, no kind of mentally understanding or accepting), when you have found out, try this: While speaking to your girlfriend focus, only for a moment or two, not on what she says while she is speaking. Look at her, look at how she moves her face while talking. For a moment, don't care about the content of her talking. It is important to focus on what she says, of course. :lol: But this time, leave the world of doing, the mentally-created world and enter the world of being, while looking at her. You may look very strangely at her :wink: but you will see how seriously she is playing her part, as you also used to do and this will make you smile. A smile of compassion and love and also a bit of amusement, because people who are playing their imagined protagonist's part with all seriousity do actually look a bit funny. :lol: This is what I would call "seeing with the heart". Of course, you can also do this while she is reading the newspapers, for example. But it was most intesive to me while speaking to somebody. One last advice: After you have done this, focus then again on what she says, before you lose what she is talking abuot. Otherwise she will think you are on drugs :wink: or daydreaming while the opposite is the case: You are awake. Maybe, with some practise, you will find out how to focus on the doing (the content of what she says) and the being at the same time. But this understanding is also very, very new to me, I have not so much experience.

But if you have seen what you are, everything else will take care of itself.

Enjoy life free of the belief in yourself,
astaroth
...you might remember me from such educational films as "Zen for couch-potatoes - The wisdom of never doing anything" or "Buddha from da hood - Was he a brother?"

lancealmekian
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Re: Help

Post by lancealmekian » Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:37 pm

As long as you are still identified with what you call "me", your personal story, with "your" thoughts.
What do I need to do to disidentify with "me"? Isn't "me" the only "me" there is?
I would advice you not to make your goal to overcome what you want to be rid of. Instead, find out what you are.
How? What am I? What am I looking for and how do I find it?
Wake up from your story, see that it is only a story, wake up from yourself
How?

Please, tell me how I do all this. I am willing to do anything to change, for her.

Just to share something with you, after 2 weeks of trying to do the things I saw here I felt like there was a relief, but it was all temporary... now I still feeling anxious...

A part of me wants to get away from this situation and just give up this struggle, another part of me says she's worth it, not to mention that it won't be a good thing to abandon them, her and the unborn child in her, I'm not that kind of a man, and besides when I don't feel anxious I feel like there's nothing more real than the love we share, that it's the greatest thing that's ever happened to me (that feeling is fleeting though... it goes away really quickly).

When I'm at work, totally distracted, I don't feel anything to bad, but then all of a sudden a thought comes to mind telling me there's something I need to deal with... a problem that needs to be resolved... then I go to spin mode, I feel anxious, my breathing gets shallow and my chest gets a burning feeling, then I result to thinking that I SHOULDN'T be in this reality... that I should be somewhere else... that I should get away from her... and the thought scares me a lot... then I start looking for a spot where I can cry and then I cry a lot (often I cry in her arms)...

Tell me, when you want to do something that's not right (but some feeling says it is), is it the thinking prior to the wanting that makes you feel like you wanna do it? If so, then it's a thought that caused it, right? Then if that's it, how do you all cope with that thought? Or do you even try to get rid of it at all? Or do you just do what feels right even when it isn't really right?

Please help, I am humbly asking for your advices, if I were in front of you all I would lay myself prostrate in front of you to show that I'm dropping my ego, my everything, because I wanna learn... this is something really important to me... I love her and I don't wanna make her cry and I certainly don't wanna abandon my kid.

Thank you.

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Re: Help

Post by kiki » Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:59 pm

I am willing to do anything to change, for her.
Consider very carefully what you've just said. You would "do anything to change for her". That is one ego attempting to change itself to please another. Can't you see that that is the very thing awakening dissolves? If you want to wake up in the hope that you will win her that is simply a misunderstanding of what this is all about. Wake up and then how things unfold one way or another doesn't matter. If it still matters after you've awakened then you haven't awakened. Waking up doesn't necessarily solve "problems" to what would be your current view of a resolved problem- it might, but that isn't what awakening reveals. It reveals that there are no problems to begin with and whatever a situation is is just fine the way it is. There is no sense of loss, of something missing that will make you "happier". That's the illusion, that something else will bring lasting happiness.

Review the portals from The Power of Now and use them regularly, as well as practice self enquiry by finding this person who has all these problems - ask yourself "What am I really?" and look for something substantial and real that is always real. When attention is taken off mental activity by using a portal there is a better chance for consciousness to reveal itself to itself. Let there be the discovery of consciousness and that will then be your guide and teacher. From consciousness it will be seen that thoughts are just illusions - consciousness will direct action, as it always has, but without the intrusion of the ego resisting that action. It's that resistance to the unfolding of life that is the core of every "problem", and that resistance is at the behest of an illusory "me".
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: Help

Post by Webwanderer » Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:56 am

lancealmekian, you cannot escape your pain by trying to change who you are. Change will come by recognizing who/what you truly are, and have always been.

Your confusion comes from your identification with thoughts and beliefs about who you think you are.
lancealmekian wrote:What do I need to do to disidentify with "me"? Isn't "me" the only "me" there is?
"Me" is an individual sense of identity that feels and believes itself separate from the world it perceives. Don't confuse that with awareness, or being observer of all content and experience within ones field of perception.

A "me" identity is one made of labels and specified charactoristics. "I am a man", "I am a pitiful man", "I am a confident man", "I am black, white or brown", "I am a lawyer", "I am a cab driver", "I am a lousey boyfriend", "I am lonely", "I am smart", "I am dumb". All these, and a thousand more, are arbitrary discriptions of a conceived identity one calls "me". Combine these identifyers with some emotion charge, look through them as a defining lens, and the me feels quite real. It then becomes the window through which one interacts with the world. The mind will support this conceptual identity by continious and consistant internal dialog, redefining everything it perceives in terms of these previously adopted identifyers. This is how false identity is created and maintained. This is the "me" imagine yourself to be.

There is however another perspective. In the short run it is "I am". It is the sense of being that exists without limiting or defining labels or concepts. It is forever present as temporary labels change and evolve. If you will forget for a moment that you have a name, or a specified identity, or a past, or some desired future. For a moment forget that those things within your view have labels, or that language of any kind actually exists, strip away all beliefs about life and time and space. Just be aware in this moment, free of any mental content, and open to the truth of what ever is present. That remaining perception, that field of awareness that previously held all those concepts you just removed, is your fundamental nature. It may be filled with anything, but it is not the filler. It is clear aware potential, infinate and eternal. It is love incarnate.
Tell me, when you want to do something that's not right (but some feeling says it is), is it the thinking prior to the wanting that makes you feel like you wanna do it? If so, then it's a thought that caused it, right? Then if that's it, how do you all cope with that thought? Or do you even try to get rid of it at all?
It's not so much the thinking or the desire, it's identification with those thoughts and desires. "I think this", or "I want that". These are manifestations of a separate me identity. They will rule your experience until you see them for what they are - from what you Essentially are. Perspective trumps motivation. Desires will come and go. Some will be fullfilled while others will not. Which is best? Who can say until after the fact. (Maybe not even then) But seeing the ongoing stream of thoughts, desires and events as just ever changing content within an over-riding perspective, makes their outcome just another experience within a lifetime of unique adventures - some painful, some delightful, but all with the potential to teach us something about life in form.

To the degree that one can experience events and people through a sense of love and acceptance, to that degree one may find peace - even in the worst of storms.

lancealmekian
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Re: Help

Post by lancealmekian » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:13 pm

Thank you so much, Webwanderer, I really appreciate what you just posted.

Just so you know, after having read this, it immediately gave me peace... something I almost thought I'd never have again. I'll work on making it last because it's fleeting. I guess this concept of thinking takes time to sink in huh?

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