Knowing when breaking up is the right thing to do

Talk about relationships in the context of Spiritual Enlightenment
minniegirl
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Knowing when breaking up is the right thing to do

Post by minniegirl » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:52 pm

Hello all,

I will give a brief background on my current situation. I was with a man for a little over 5 years. Broke up a year ago, but still remained in a "dating" stage to try to work on the relationship. Now, a year later, I have finally decided that after a year of trying to reconcile, that things simply aren't going to work out and I have called it off for good. I seem to be in conflict with myself (ego I believe) about what has taken place. Before, I wanted to blame him for everything and now I want to blame myself. It's like my ego wants to lay the blame some place in order to make it feel better - which is not right. There is no blame to lay here for anyone or anything. What's done is done and now it's time to move on. What I am really struggling with is my search for "permission" to have finally broken up with this person. It was an unhealthy relationship, tons of pain and hurt on both sides, amazing pain-body issues, etc.... Does Tolle ever speak of when the time is right to leave a "bad" relationship and move on with your life, especially when one (such as myself) is embarking upon this new journey of awakening and enlightenment?

Thank you.

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heidi
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Re: Knowing when breaking up is the right thing to do

Post by heidi » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:11 am

I'm not sure Tolle speaks to this situation, but I will. :)
You are so right to leave the ego out.
There's a Rumi quote I just love when it comes to these things.

"Outside the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there's a field.
I'll meet you there." -- Or don't meet because you chose not to.

When it comes to this stuff there's no right or wrong, there just is what is.

You're veering clear of that which no longer resonates with you.
Heidi
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wonderment on the third wave

happns
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Re: Knowing when breaking up is the right thing to do

Post by happns » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:06 am

Hi Minniegirl, I'm new to this forum too...
On Eckhart's newly improved official website under "media" you can find four excellent video clips each under 10 minutes - one of these has the title of The End of Suffering - you may be re-inspired
Vanessa :D
Here is a new spiritual practice for you... don't take your thoughts too seriously - Eckhart from Stillness Speaks

minniegirl
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Re: Knowing when breaking up is the right thing to do

Post by minniegirl » Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:59 am

Thank you both for your kind words. Can you point me to his site and the videos?

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Re: Knowing when breaking up is the right thing to do

Post by happns » Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:39 am

minniegirl wrote: Can you point me to his site and the videos?
Here is the direct link minniegirl
http://blog.eckharttolle.com/eckhartmed ... rttolleom/

Enjoy :D
Here is a new spiritual practice for you... don't take your thoughts too seriously - Eckhart from Stillness Speaks

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Re: Knowing when breaking up is the right thing to do

Post by Sighclone » Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:32 am

Welcome minniegirl! Eckhart actually warns against relationships in which one is enlightened - see PON pages 145-164, esp. p. 161 in which he warns that an enlightened person is so easy to get along with that the ego in the other is threatened...
Another useful source on this is John Welwood's "Toward a Psychology of Awakening", the third section of the book, on relationships. Waking up is unlikely to increase the number of potential partners, but it will decrease the need for one to feel complete.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

minniegirl
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Re: Knowing when breaking up is the right thing to do

Post by minniegirl » Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:59 pm

Sighclone, thank you so much for your post. I did read the pages you specified and had a hard time understanding. In this relationship that has ended, neither of us were "enlightened". However, I've embarked upon this journey to enlightenment and awaking because I no longer want to suffer. I am tired of all the craziness that my mind produces. I want a better way to live. The man that I broke up with said he wanted to embark upon this journey as well. I hope he does. But I feel that this relationship has run it's course (at it's current level and with the current people involved). I was tired of suffering and making others suffer (as Tolle pointed out). Enough was enough. This brings me to the pages you mentioned, if neither of us were truly enlightened, then how does that fit in to this picture?

Thank you and trying to understand.

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Re: Knowing when breaking up is the right thing to do

Post by weichen » Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:27 am

It was an unhealthy relationship, tons of pain and hurt on both sides, amazing pain-body issues, etc.... Does Tolle ever speak of when the time is right to leave a "bad" relationship and move on with your life, especially when one (such as myself) is embarking upon this new journey of awakening and enlightenment?
Hi minniegirl, here is my two cents.

Embarking upon this new journey of awakening and enlightenment has two components.
1. Free a lot space through disidentifying from the old mind conditioning (seeing little me as self, and wanting this little me to rank high).
2. Use the space to manifest beautiful form. This means to create beautiful new services to humanity, receive recognition from public in various forms. This aspect is the material success. Most novice spiritual seekers lack this component!

Your last relationship (that gives tons of pain and hurt) did not break for several years, it means the relationship also had lot of mutual benefit. So my gut feeling is that you would probably be fine if you had decided to stay with him. The tons of pain and hurt that you receive from his words and action (For example: inconsiderateness, rudeness, lying, demanding, puting you down, taking you for granted.... ) are fuels for deepening enlightenment. But as long as you do not use the pain and hurt to enter higher identity to liberate space (not used the space for material success), It is almost a guarantee that you would also suffer tons of pain and inflict tons of pain in the next relationship.

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Re: Knowing when breaking up is the right thing to do

Post by Sighclone » Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:43 am

Growth is growth. I respectfully disagree with weichen that you are doomed to suffer in the next relationship. Suffering is a path to enlightenment, according to Eckhart, and according to his record of his personal experience, but it is not a requirement, according to others (Adyashanti, Loch Kelly, Dzogchen Buddhists.)

Eckhart does not comment, to my knowledge on when to do anything, including hook up or break up with anyone. But he does counsel us to look inside for the answers.

You say:
There is no blame to lay here for anyone or anything. What's done is done and now it's time to move on.
Sounds like good advice from you to yourself!!

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Knowing when breaking up is the right thing to do

Post by aquarius123esoteric » Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:26 pm

Dear Friend - for as long as you have learnt the lessons you were meant to learn in this partnership, there is no reason why you should suffer when you move on into another relationship. The way I understand this life is that we ourselves are responsible for our own character and everything that is in our lives. Here are a few of my insights into this:

The Universe is constantly trying and testing us to see how far we have got thus far with the development of our character and what degree of spiritual maturity we have reached. Humankind’s final evolutionary goal is to accomplish the perfection that is in our Creator. In this sense perfection means wholeness and full integration of all the qualities and aspects of our true parents, Father/Mother God, which each one of us contains in seed form. That is why carefully paying attention to Saturn’s lessons has never been as important as it is now. For human souls the planet symbolises the stern and undeviating celestial schoolmaster, whose justice is perfect. Wherever this planet’s energies are involved everything has to be right and must be done for real. In the great school of life on the spiritual level no soul is allowed to get away with fudging anything.

With love and light,
Aquarius
Last edited by aquarius123esoteric on Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Knowing when breaking up is the right thing to do

Post by nusoul » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:20 pm

Hi all & Minniegirl
Thank you for posting these questions (as well as to everyone for their responses) as I find it speaks similarly to how I feel about my own relationship situation.

After being introduced to this new path over the past year and a half, I have tried to move my unhealthy relationship (of 6 years on and off) into as Eckhart says "a spiritual practice" for me. As I was getting used to it all, I did slip in and out of wanting more from my partner and not accepting situations that were out of my control - which often led to outbursts of negative conflict both at my partner and within myself. My main concerns at the time were that I felt he did not take the relationship or my feelings seriously, whether he was seeing other women, or that he did not want us to progress as a serious couple. During some fights, he did try to explain he did not want to be serious right now but that he loves me and still wants me in his life - it went in cycles as I didn't want to accept the result of his feelings, and I tried to push harder to make him mine.

After a major heartbreak during discussing the current state of our relationship, I fell back into my thoughts and would constantly be fighting within myself which made me very depressed. I realized all the suffering brought on by my ego after feelings of doubt, jealousy, insecurity and expectations pushed my bf away. I did try to move back into my spiritual practice and decided to work things out with my partner on a different level. We aren't technically 'together' now, but I spend time with him in the state of Now .. which I find lifted so much pressure on me trying to make things work. I find now that I can just enjoy the company and accept who he is and what he wants.

Since I am still adjusting to the state of the relationship now as a spiritual practice, I often find feelings of jealousy, inadequacy, loss and fear of infidelity on his part come up when certain situations or new information arise. I let myself feel the emotion and try to release the negative thoughts, but my question is .. am I missing an intuitive aspect of it all? When is it right to confront him about how I feel if I start feeling like a doormat or should I just let things be as it is, because it IS just my projection of the future and my fear of him hurting me again? Am I scared because I 'feel' like I love him and do not want to let go and that I am only expecting more from him?

Am I slipping out of consciousness again when I let myself think about the relationship -often seeing it as past & future?

I have been struggling with this for quite some time. I appreciate any views on this.

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Re: Knowing when breaking up is the right thing to do

Post by Sighclone » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:30 pm

Welcom nusoul! If you began that relationship when you were unconscious, it probably has deep egoic energies which remain. If he is not marching towards awakening himself, then anything you talk about with him will fall on deaf ears. And that entire experience you are having will be, in and of itself, a big barrier to intimacy.

Do get a copy of John Welwood's "Toward a Psychology of Awakening." The last third of the book talks about relationships. It's a rare topic, and this guy is excellent. (PhD counseling psychologist and long-time meditator and nondual scholar.)

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Knowing when breaking up is the right thing to do

Post by nusoul » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:01 pm

Thank you Andy for the quick response!
Sighclone wrote:If you began that relationship when you were unconscious, it probably has deep egoic energies which remain.
I had never thought of it this way, this really made me go hmmm!
The thing is, even if he doesn't touch the subject of awakening his consciousness (would he really have to change?) then won't the actions I take during my spiritual practice somehow affect the way we interact with each other? ie. 'I won't be expecting, so he won't be drawing away' or 'I will learn to accept the relationship for what it is, so he won't feel pressured' <--- this one is a big insecurity I have in terms of making myself more vulnerable to him taking advantage of the fact I don't want to put pressure/expectations on situations (so he would then feel free to do whatever/see whomever).

We are very physically intimate, and even without the physical I feel an unspoken connection to him. But I think I feel insecure when I slip into the addictive state in the relationship - when I find myself falling for him again and wanting things to be complete and secure, him being my one and only & viceversa.

Thanks! I'll have to definitely look into that read

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Re: Knowing when breaking up is the right thing to do

Post by Sighclone » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:22 pm

nusoul -

Nonduality is not a religion. But to most people it's "spiritual", religions are "spiritual" and they get lumped together. Let's say you decided to become a devout Catholic. You went to church every day. But your bf didn't give a hoot. Would not that alone be enough to cause stress in the relationship?

If you are beginning to view and experience the universe in an entirely different way, and your bf is not, how does that work, on any level? Maybe it can, nusoul...I'm not saying you guys can't make it work...but a huge new element has entered your life and he's not interested???? How is that loving, or even respectful?

That said, be wary of the phenomenon called "Spiritual ego." Said another way, it's "holier than thou." It's bullshit, and completely opposite of awakening.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Knowing when breaking up is the right thing to do

Post by nusoul » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:45 pm

Thanks Andy

No ya I completely understand what you're trying to point out - oops my mistake in referring to 'spiritual practice' a bit much .. but there was a line in PON under the 'Addictive to Enlightened Relationships' section (I think) that always stuck with me about trying to make relationships ALMOST as a spiritual practice .. it always seems to calm me down when I think of it that way (I'm still trying to remember some of the eye opening stuff I've read :? )
Sighclone wrote:If you are beginning to view and experience the universe in an entirely different way, and your bf is not, how does that work, on any level? Maybe it can, nusoul...I'm not saying you guys can't make it work...but a huge new element has entered your life and he's not interested???? How is that loving, or even respectful?
This is soo true because he has touched a little bit on some 'buddhist basics' i guess, and after he found out I was experiencing something different I think he kind of understood but at the same time didnt really believe I was serious about it because I would fall into the same mind patterns (not really bringing the tools into fruition). He always has a calm exterior but I can sense he falls into his own mind patterns as well that make me question the relationship.

I don't know maybe I'm not making sense, but I feel like i'm in my mind too much when it comes to him and its something I want to continue trying to move away from.

I find I have been somewhat successful in detaching myself, not the clinger. But I wonder as you said before, if I started the relationship unconsciously and there are egoic energies still there, would that mean I should let him go and also the pain-body energies i've attached to him and the aspect of being with him??

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