Do you want or need your partner?

Talk about relationships in the context of Spiritual Enlightenment
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citronella49
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Do you want or need your partner?

Post by citronella49 » Fri Dec 26, 2008 12:25 am

If I feel like I "need" my bf, does that make me less of a person?

If he feels like he doesn't need me... that he is a complete person without me... does that mean I cant do anything for him cause he has no need for me?

If I want my bf, or if he wants me... is that ego?

If we should just be happy with the present then what is the point of a relationship? I thought a relationship is good because you can complete each other, and help each other...
I just want to understand

Glycine
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Re: Do you want or need your partner?

Post by Glycine » Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:29 pm

The need that you describe sounds more like egoic clinging. The mind thinks we need a lot of things in order to be "complete."
The "rock bottom" point of a heterosexual relationship is to have babies. Of course, our complex minds can get a lot more than that from a relationship.
Don't force your relationship - all your interactions should originate in love. If it doesn't work, be at peace with the consequences.

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domokato
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Re: Do you want or need your partner?

Post by domokato » Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:28 pm

citronella49 wrote:If he feels like he doesn't need me... that he is a complete person without me... does that mean I cant do anything for him cause he has no need for me?
In presence, you do not need your partner. You just enjoy and so love him/her :). That may be hard for the other to understand if he/she's never had that kind of relationship before, so it may cause "problems" with them. And you can make those problems a part of you too if you're not conscious of it.
~housecat

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eputkonen
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Re: Do you want or need your partner?

Post by eputkonen » Thu Jan 01, 2009 2:43 am

citronella49 wrote:I thought a relationship is good because you can complete each other, and help each other...
You can not complete each other...for you are already complete.

You may help each other, if the other is willing to receive help.

It is not because of need that I remain with my fiance, it is just a decision on both our parts to be together. You could call it a want...but really isn't even a want (that is something that makes you unhappy if you don't get it or it ends/leaves). Desireless desire is closer.
If we should just be happy with the present then what is the point of a relationship?
This is said because you think that happiness can not be had unless you are in a relationship. I am happy in the present, but it is more enjoyable with the added flair of the relationship. My relationship with my fiance is not because I want to be happy...I am happy regardless...it is that I enjoy the added complexity and dimension of the world game with the addition of my fiance. Happy regardless, but an additional enjoyment that could not be had alone.

Not anything last forever...our relationship will end one day (there is nothing I can do about it). Even if the separation is not in divorce (like so many these days)...death will end the physical relationship one day. I know and accept fully the end of the relationship and the uncertainty of when the end will come...so I enjoy every day we do have.
Namaste,

~ Eric Putkonen
@EngagedNondual on Twitter
https://www.youtube.com/EricPutkonen

citronella49
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Re: Do you want or need your partner?

Post by citronella49 » Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:09 am

I wish I could wrap my mind around what you guys are saying, especially eputkonen .... I just dont get it

All my life I have "known" that a person gets into a relationship with another person because they want or need that person... which means we are less of a person if we are alone... also, I WANT children, I cannot bring myself to accept the idea of never having kids or a family, that is the absolute most depressing thing I can imagine... so I just cant accept that possibility, I would cry so much and wan to die... I think thats why Im not happy now, cause I just cant be happy with now...

:( Im really trying, I am... but its just not working... I hear what you all say, but I just cannot understand it... I dont know why... I know what I want... and thats the problem, I want so much, I want everything to be different, all the time...

I keep seeing my friends get married and have kids and I think terrible things like "man, she/he isnt even pretty, how are they married?" its like what am I doing wrong, that I cant get my bf to marry me and want to have kids with me? its cause Im never happy, I know that, cause I am never just happy with the way things are, and he senses that and doesnt like it, so he isnt going to start a family with me unless I can be happy, so I have to change, but I just CANT!!!

Thinking about this make me tired, I wish there was just a shot i could get that would change my mind... really I just cant do it on my own.
I just want to understand

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Re: Do you want or need your partner?

Post by Sighclone » Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:33 am

Your boyfriend doesn’t love you. How can I say that? Well…if he knows no more about you than we do here, he knows you want to marry and have kids soon…now. He also knows that you want to make some changes in your personality and way of viewing the world. And these are the two most important things in your life right now.

And he is doing absolutely nothing to help you in either one, and I think he is actually hindering you in both of them. So, very simply, he does not love you. Someone who loves you even a little bit would try to help in both of those areas which are so important to you.

So, your bf is a convenient excuse for not getting what you want. (The more you stay with him, the less likely it is you will evolve or get married.) And, moreover, if you leave him, then you won’t have an excuse to tell yourself and others for not changing and not finding a loving mate. I write this knowing that he may be a member or guest here and might read this. I hope he will get all huffy and defend himself…not to me, but to you.

And I hope I’m all wrong about him. But I don't think so.

Self-realization doesn’t happen overnight to 99% of the people in the world. The Advaitists and Zen practitioners warn that it could take years. I myself spent 35 years meditating and “it” didn’t “happen.” Kiki had the same long struggle. Adya took 15 years.

So if you are in this forum or fascinated with ET for a quick fix, you are going to be sadly disappointed, I’m afraid. Deal with the things in you life you can control, which does not appear to be your bad thought-habits, right now. So accept those for the moment. You can control where you live, however.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

Glycine
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Re: Do you want or need your partner?

Post by Glycine » Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:40 pm

citronella49 wrote::( Im really trying, I am... but its just not working... I hear what you all say, but I just cannot understand it... I dont know why... I know what I want... and thats the problem, I want so much, I want everything to be different, all the time...
You might be approaching the situation from the wrong perspective.
From my experience, you shouldn't use Eckhart's teaching to obtain "things". You use it to realize your true nature.
You cannot use "Being", but rather "Being" is guiding you. Listen to it! Be at peace!
Last edited by Glycine on Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Do you want or need your partner?

Post by Webwanderer » Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:28 pm

Citronella, the primary focus of this forum is to provide an atmosphere for discovery of one's true nature in life. It is to offer an opportunity to discuss with others of similar interests the teachings and pointers of Tolle and others who have discovered the imaginary nature of the mind based identity and what it means to be genuinely awake. The value of such awakening is to bring clarity into our experience of life as it happens.

As that clarity develops we gain perspective into the nature of our problems and appreciation for life as it is. It doesn't mean however that those problems just disappear. With clearer perspective, we are freed from our judgments of the wrongness of how things are and our fears that they will not change. So long as you remain focused in your desire for another to change, and your unhappiness for the way things are now, clarity and the beauty of living fully in this moment will elude you. Life is only lived now. Never can it be lived in some future time.

Consider your history for a moment. How much of your life has been spent in joyful appreciation of your experience compared to unhappiness/depression/anger/frustration etc that you have lived through. If you have not lived in true love for being alive, apart from external factors - if you have lived in resistance for life as it was and constant hope for better tomorrows - then getting married and having children is unlikely to change that. It could even compound it.

The ego/mind just creates more judgments on the present, more perceptions of things being wrong, and more desire for different tomorrows. The ego's dominance depends on distracting awareness from a clear perception of living life now. It is a clear demonstration that it's ruling our lives when we live in fear.

If you have ever lived in joy and appreciation for life in your history, reconnect with it. This is not a suggestion to live in memories of a better time, but rather to regain a sense of gratitude for the beauty in life as it is in this moment. It will always be now. You can live nowhere else. By creating imaginary future scenarios in our minds we sleep walk through our opportunities to live fully.

Recognize the distinction between thought and awareness - it is key. It is the difference between who/what we are, and who we imagine our self to be. Who/What are you? Rest awhile in that inquirey. It will help bring you clarity.

WW

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domokato
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Re: Do you want or need your partner?

Post by domokato » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:17 pm

citronella49 wrote:I WANT children, I cannot bring myself to accept the idea of never having kids or a family, that is the absolute most depressing thing I can imagine... so I just cant accept that possibility, I would cry so much and wan to die... I think thats why Im not happy now, cause I just cant be happy with now...
its like what am I doing wrong, that I cant get my bf to marry me and want to have kids with me? its cause Im never happy, I know that, cause I am never just happy with the way things are, and he senses that and doesnt like it, so he isnt going to start a family with me unless I can be happy, so I have to change, but I just CANT!!!
Do you see the cycle here? You think you won't have kids, so you're unhappy. And you think your unhappiness is causing your bf to not want to marry you. And you think you won't have kids if your bf doesn't marry you. And we're back to square one. First, notice this is all in your head, just thoughts, and is about the future, and none of it is real. Second, realize what you can change - yourself. If you can be "happy" (or rather, at peace), then that will "solve" (change) your "problem" (situation). How do you gain peace? By being present. It is primary. It's what you are. It's the only thing in your experience that doesn't change. It's that which is aware. The rest you can ignore or play with or do whatever you want with.
citronella49 wrote:Thinking about this make me tired, I wish there was just a shot i could get that would change my mind... really I just cant do it on my own.
Yes, thinking is tiring. It drains you of energy. You would do well to use it constructively instead of destructively. You can do it on your own. In fact, no one can do it for you. We can only point you in the right direction, and you seem to be headed there!
~housecat

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