Painful and long separation notice

Talk about relationships in the context of Spiritual Enlightenment
nutrition
Posts: 344
Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 12:15 pm

Re: Painful and long separation notice

Post by nutrition » Thu May 21, 2009 9:49 am

Thank you karmarider for your helpful post. this forum is excellent.
I do not live in the U.S. and the situation i am in, in the country where i live, does not allow me to take action right now, mainly for economic reasons. So i do understand that:
karmarider wrote:Acceptance is the absence of resistance to what is. It's doesn't mean you have to put up with your husband's manipulation. From what you have written, your husband has created a situation for himself where he can guiltlessly take advantage of you. Allowing him to to do that is not acceptance. Sure, love your husband, understand his pain, see that ultimately we are all blameless...but also protect yourself.
However, i am in a place right now where the pain that i have to live with everyday has brought me to practice presence almost constantly. i do not have a choice: i either do that or go into traditional medicine with all the antidepressants that in the past caused me severe health issues. i can't live the situation now. no action can be taken. i have to accept what is.
My husband has had this behaviour on and off for the past 7 years. we have been married almost 20 years. it started right after we moved to this new country when he had an affair claiming i was making him unhappy (i had a very dense painbody, i have to admit). he then told me he wanted to separate and at the end decided to stay for my son. he claimed he needed to fall back in love with me and later on he said he succeeded. after a while, about 3 years, my pain body became dense again and he repeated the same process saying again that i was making him very unhappy, he did not love me any longer and that the fact that he is approaching his 50s makes him realize that he has the right to be happy with another woman. Even better, be alone for a while and then start dating other women. he said he would stay in the marriage till my son graduates and lives for college in August. With what i know now, reading ET, i can see his unconsciousness very clearly, and what he says hurts less and less.
I know i can't find salvation in the future, however, at this point I hope I will be able to take action in august . I do not want to hurt my son by taking action now and not having a place for me or my son to go, or money to help us both.
Andy and Robin, thank you for your book suggestions. I am not able to purchase anything at this point as I do not have a credit card. so whatever i can find in bookstores here i buy when i can, but not much is available. fortunately i have all of ET books and I can see him on youtube.
blessings

nutrition
Posts: 344
Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 12:15 pm

Re: Painful and long separation notice

Post by nutrition » Thu May 21, 2009 10:29 am

I wanted to make a correction on my previous post. This:
nutrition wrote: i can't live the situation now. no action can be taken. i have to accept what is.
Should read as: i can't LEAVE the situation now. no action can be taken. i have to accept what is.
thank you

nutrition
Posts: 344
Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 12:15 pm

Re: Painful and long separation notice

Post by nutrition » Fri May 29, 2009 9:00 am

I just wanted to touch bases again. I had a brief talk with my husband and he said that what has been missing and what he is seeking in another relationship is intimacy. he said there is too much history between us (basically too much past) for intimacy to be present (he said we never had it in our relationship as he always feld judged and criticized). this history between us would require an enourmous effort from his part in order to get past it. he is not willing to put any effort in our relationship any more. and even if he were to be willing he would not know where to begin as all the feelings towards me are gone and he only experiences indifference for me. he said it has been years now that he feels this way. he also added he wants a woman who views things the same way he does and that he can be happy with. he always felt that i make him nervous.
I understand that intimacy means being accepted for what we are, not judged. or is it something else.? is intimacy also viewing things the same way? i guess if two enlighted persons were to be in a relationship they would view things the same way, meaning, the world of form would be seen for what is. not taken seriously.
please see if you have any helpful pointers for me
blessings

Tony-S-Ma
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Re: Painful and long separation notice

Post by Tony-S-Ma » Fri May 29, 2009 11:30 am

In an enlightened relationship, the partners become each others enablers. They align with each other. Or they make each other more aware and more secure in expressing each others' individuality.

I can relate with your husband somewhat. In my failed marriage, I often felt that I was not able to satisfy my ex's desire to be more secure financially. Not that she openly expressed herself about it. Eventually, she left me for a much more wealthy man. Perhaps, you need to search within yourself for the part of you that is not satisfied with your husband. When this dissatisfaction is buried in your subconscious, you can not recognize it consciously; however, your husband can pick it up emotionally.

From a male perspective, I can always sense whether a woman is critical of me in intimacy. Jon and Kate Plus 8 on tlc has a failed marriage written all over it. We can see Kate is very critical of her husband without doing so consciously. Jon has no chance to express his individuality.

Many husbands are like little boys who need feel secure in order to express themselves as individuals. A critical wife( consciously or unconsciously) will drive true intimacy from an insecure husband to seek somewhere else to express.

The feeling function usually matures much later in men than in women; therefore, it is often better for a woman to marry an older man. An emotionally more secure husband is more able to handle criticism from a dissatisfied wife and to improve himself accordingly. Oriental women are more adapted in making their husbands feel secure in the emotional department. They seem to know instinctively what is man's natural short coming.

Please understand, I am not saying that it is the woman's fault. I only wish to point out there is probably an emotional development gap between you and your husband, and you may have to be more tolerant of his emotional insecurity and help him to develop a more secure emotion if you wish to continue the relationship, or you may find this information helpful in your future relationship.

If there is also intellectual development gap between you and your husband, you will have a double job of teaching him intellectually as well as emotionally. That is too much work. It is better to dump him unless you are a superwoman.

nutrition
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Re: Painful and long separation notice

Post by nutrition » Fri May 29, 2009 11:57 am

Tony-S-Ma wrote:
I can relate with your husband somewhat. In my failed marriage, I often felt that I was not able to satisfy my ex's desire to be more secure financially. Not that she openly expressed herself about it. Eventually, she left me for a much more wealthy man. .
Thank you Tony.s.ma,
this is helpful to me as it comes from a male perspective. unfortunately my husband feels he can't satisfy me and he is the one to leave the relationship contrary to what happened to you with your ex.
Tony-S-Ma wrote:When this dissatisfaction is buried in your subconscious, you can not recognize it consciously; however, your husband can pick it up emotionally.
mine was not burried. I told him over and over and over how unhappy i was with everything. But this was more than a year ago. for more than a year now i stopped all complaining. he says however that years of complaining "broke" something inside of him. he can't risk it any more with me. it was too painful.
Tony-S-Ma wrote: A critical wife( consciously or unconsciously) will drive true intimacy from an insecure husband to seek somewhere else to express.
maybe I am wrong Tony, but at some point, after a few years of marriage between to pretty unconsciuos people (which is 99% of the world population) a wife (or husband) becomes critical....or not?
Tony-S-Ma wrote:Please understand, I am not saying that it is the woman's fault. I only wish to point out there is probably an emotional development gap between you and your husband, and you may have to be more tolerant of his emotional insecurity and help him to develop a more secure emotion if you wish to continue the relationship, or you may find this information helpful in your future relationship
a good friend of mine told me the other day :Nutrition, sorry to say this, but i really believe that a failed marriage is most of the time a woman's responsibility. and she pretty much said that i was not able to intuitively understand how much my husbanad suffered my disapproval.
Tony-S-Ma wrote:If there is also intellectual development gap between you and your husband, you will have a double job of teaching him intellectually as well as emotionally.
the gap between my husband and i is all encompassing. he put up a wall for more than a year now and he is totally indifferent to me. nothing i do seem to impact him. this is the thing that puzzles me the most. he is after all a human beeing. how could he be so distant from me for a whole year or more while leaving with me under the same roof, working in the same place...maybe he is truly enlightened!
Tony-S-Ma wrote:Jon and Kate Plus 8 on tlc has a failed marriage written all over it. We can see Kate is very critical of her husband without doing so consciously. Jon has no chance to express his individuality.
Sorry i did not katch the meaning of this, who are they?

thank you again TonySma
blessings

Tony-S-Ma
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:07 pm

Re: Painful and long separation notice

Post by Tony-S-Ma » Fri May 29, 2009 12:53 pm

he put up a wall for more than a year now and he is totally indifferent to me. nothing i do seem to impact him. this is the thing that puzzles me the most. he is after all a human beeing. how could he be so distant from me for a whole year or more while leaving with me under the same roof, working in the same place...maybe he is truly enlightened!
This seems to be man's natural ability. A man does not bother as much by emotional neglect as a woman; and he is able to do neglect another person emotionally more effectively. One is able to control one's emotion with a well developed mind (or thinking function).

Generally, a man naturally thinks more than he feels. Thinking focuses; therefore, when he focuses on neglecting you emotionally, not much of your emotional expressions will be caught in that narrow focus.

A woman naturally feels more than she thinks. Feeling covers; therefore, when you try to get his attention with emotion, most of it will be wasted because he is focusing on ignoring you.

Robin
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Re: Painful and long separation notice

Post by Robin » Fri May 29, 2009 1:14 pm

Tony-S-Ma wrote:
he put up a wall for more than a year now and he is totally indifferent to me. nothing i do seem to impact him. this is the thing that puzzles me the most. he is after all a human beeing. how could he be so distant from me for a whole year or more while leaving with me under the same roof, working in the same place...maybe he is truly enlightened!
This seems to be man's natural ability. A man does not bother as much by emotional neglect as a woman; and he is able to do neglect another person emotionally more effectively. One is able to control one's emotion with a well developed mind (or thinking function).

Generally, a man naturally thinks more than he feels. Thinking focuses; therefore, when he focuses on neglecting you emotionally, not much of your emotional expressions will be caught in that narrow focus.

A woman naturally feels more than she thinks. Feeling covers; therefore, when you try to get his attention with emotion, most of it will be wasted because he is focusing on ignoring you.

:shock: oh, boy I am a woman in a male form. My wife is the tuff, thinker not showing feeling. And I am too all feeling with a lot of thinking too. Being for a week in the situation nutrion is would really get on me. I had this now for some weeks with my wife and it was nearly killing me. I am a bit better now but it really got onto my ego and was driving me nuts. She could give me the cold shoulder for weeks, I cant do such a thing I suffer too much. And I am a man. In that way I feel doubble bad as I cant talk with other men about it. They would think I am hen pegged or a sissy. :( So I guess I better get enlightend soon or become myself a silent ice face. :?

Robin

nutrition
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Re: Painful and long separation notice

Post by nutrition » Fri May 29, 2009 1:54 pm

Tony-S-Ma wrote:Generally, a man naturally thinks more than he feels. Thinking focuses; therefore, when he focuses on neglecting you emotionally, not much of your emotional expressions will be caught in that narrow focus.
TonySma, i thank you for this. My husband is of scandinavian origins and pretty much all is family has a generally cold attitude when they decide so. for ex. his dad can go years without speaking to his siblings. or my husbands sisters can go months without speaking to eachother.
this is very scary to me as my husband always said: once i decide something and i put my mind to it. that is it.
so he put his mind to ending this and he can go for years at a time giving me the cold shoulder...no problem for him. Now i see it. before i thought he was super-human made of steel
Robin wrote:oh, boy I am a woman in a male form. My wife is the tuff, thinker not showing feeling. And I am too all feeling with a lot of thinking too. Being for a week in the situation nutrion is would really get on me. I had this now for some weeks with my wife and it was nearly killing me. I am a bit better now but it really got onto my ego and was driving me nuts. She could give me the cold shoulder for weeks, I cant do such a thing I suffer too much. And I am a man. In that way I feel doubble bad as I cant talk with other men about it.

Robin, i can't speak for Tony, however i am sure he is trying to help me here by giving me an example i can relate to. but lots of man are also like you, Robin. in the country where i live most man are just as you describe yourself to be. my own brother is like you. his wife is cold and he suffers for it. but lots of men of northern european discent are very much like my husband. i knew they were cold but till Tony's post i was not able to figure out how they could sustain that coldness for as long as they choose to. i was almost mis-interpreting his coldness for detachement and semi-enlightenement, but i see now that he is way too much in his head. also i am sure, he does not have many thought-emotion patters like I do (and maybe many women do) but he probably has only a few thoughts about me and lots of fantasy thougths about an ideal relationship he envisions he said that the idea of a better relationship is what keeps him going. so, hope for salvation in the future.

Robin
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Re: Painful and long separation notice

Post by Robin » Fri May 29, 2009 3:08 pm

Robin wrote:oh, boy I am a woman in a male form. My wife is the tuff, thinker not showing feeling. And I am too all feeling with a lot of thinking too. Being for a week in the situation nutrion is would really get on me. I had this now for some weeks with my wife and it was nearly killing me. I am a bit better now but it really got onto my ego and was driving me nuts. She could give me the cold shoulder for weeks, I cant do such a thing I suffer too much. And I am a man. In that way I feel doubble bad as I cant talk with other men about it.

Robin, i can't speak for Tony, however i am sure he is trying to help me here by giving me an example i can relate to. but lots of man are also like you, Robin. in the country where i live most man are just as you describe yourself to be. my own brother is like you. his wife is cold and he suffers for it. but lots of men of northern european discent are very much like my husband. i knew they were cold but till Tony's post i was not able to figure out how they could sustain that coldness for as long as they choose to. i was almost mis-interpreting his coldness for detachement and semi-enlightenement, but i see now that he is way too much in his head. also i am sure, he does not have many thought-emotion patters like I do (and maybe many women do) but he probably has only a few thoughts about me and lots of fantasy thougths about an ideal relationship he envisions he said that the idea of a better relationship is what keeps him going. so, hope for salvation in the future.[/quote]

Where do you live? My wife is too from northern europe. Maybe they are all cold people. I am too not from the northern parts. This silence thing kept me wondering too, i too thought that she is more spiritual and I am only a fat feeling ego. :oops:
Robin

nutrition
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Re: Painful and long separation notice

Post by nutrition » Fri May 29, 2009 3:14 pm

I live in Italy.
But there is a big difference between you wife and my husb, she wants to be with you. my husb tells me he wants to leave me and since he has been cold for a long while and no sex for a long while he might mean what he says when he says he will leave in a few weeks.
why is your wife so cold? what does she not do? or do?

Tony-S-Ma
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Re: Painful and long separation notice

Post by Tony-S-Ma » Fri May 29, 2009 9:00 pm

:shock: oh, boy I am a woman in a male form. My wife is the tuff, thinker not showing feeling. And I am too all feeling with a lot of thinking too. Being for a week in the situation nutrion is would really get on me. I had this now for some weeks with my wife and it was nearly killing me. I am a bit better now but it really got onto my ego and was driving me nuts. She could give me the cold shoulder for weeks, I cant do such a thing I suffer too much. And I am a man. In that way I feel doubble bad as I cant talk with other men about it. They would think I am hen pegged or a sissy. :( So I guess I better get enlightend soon or become myself a silent ice face. :?
There is a natural attraction between Thinking strong/feeling week and Feeling strong/thinking week. Not a male and female thing. Robin and nutrition can empathize with each other and help each other out. People either learn from this type of relationship by growing the weaker part of their functions and become happily together after Feeling strong/thinking weak thinks a lot more, and the Thinking strong/feeling weak feels a lot more.

Imbalance occurs when one partner grows faster in one function, in case of nutrition, she thinks a lot more now. And this really irritates the weak feeling of her husband. He may not be able to handle it unless he is into awakening business to increase his feeling to cover your increasing focus in life.

In Robin's case, you still have the chance to develop your thinking side to match with your wife's intellect. You need to stimulate her thinking side with your growing thinking function. The weakness of many is that they tend to rely too much on their strong function to make through life. Robin, you need to suffer to use your thinking more to control your feeling. Not jut use sheer will to control your feeling. That is using feeling to control feeling. It will not work.

Psychology Tony

p.s I can relate to Robin on the emotional side somewhat. I am a lot more emotional than my ex; and I can also out think her; however, I just can not satisfy her of her worldly wants because I hated the worldly things. I felt that I loved my ex a lot more than she loved me during my marriage. She was my first adolescent love. I was hopeless romantic until I got married at age of 30. After I came to Canada for ten years without much contact with her, I went back to China to marry her without even one proper dating. I was crazy about her in my mind and emotion. That was really a very very very foolish thing to do. However, I refused to listen to anybody about it. After the marriage, the worst thing I did to her was turning on the cold shoulder when I was into the non-worldly. I was really glade that she have found a wealthier man that I was relieved the responsibility of satisfying her worldly wants.

nutrition
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Re: Painful and long separation notice

Post by nutrition » Sun May 31, 2009 5:48 pm

Tony-S-Ma wrote:
Imbalance occurs when one partner grows faster in one function, in case of nutrition, she thinks a lot more now. And this really irritates the weak feeling of her husband. He may not be able to handle it unless he is into awakening business to increase his feeling to cover your increasing focus in life.
TonySma thank you. I thought i was less into thinking now that i follow ET teachings. i really do not want to develop more thinking that i already do. my mind goes 1,000 miles per hour and now i also wake up at night with an super active mind which i try to come down by use the power of now. and it works at times.
I would have to say that my husband has been super cold since he announced he wants to separate (almost a year ago). before that he was a lot more affectionate and he would express his feelings. i was always very critical of him and nagging, harping etc... so at the end he stopped expressing any opinion or feelings for fear of being attacked.

Tony, i see that you were able to let go of your ex. That is the stage i am in right now. i have to let go of my husband. he is ready to end the relationship. there is nothing left between us. nothing he wants to talk about with me, explore, plan. if i talk about things i know he is very interested in, he does not keep the conversation going. he says a couple of words and that's all. it is getting worse and worse as we are getting closer and closer to my son's departure for college. i have to admit i do not have the strenght for all this any more and handed over to the Source (god) as i alone can't endure the pain of having to soon face this separation. i know i should leave in the now, i do most of the time. but also i have to start planning a little for the future and when my husbad gradually, every day more, pulls away from me then i realized i really have to let him go. (i am thinking about speding a whole month in the states and trying to make arrangements to find someone who needs a housitter. )
how do you let go of someone you love deeply and accept for whom he is without reservations. how do you do that without breaking your heart. mine is broken already and i can barely function these days. i know ET does not recommend prayer but i have resorted to that as i feel destroyed inside most of the time and it takes me a lot of concentration to keep present and still.
thank you for all your help
blessings

Robin
Posts: 97
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 2:11 pm

Re: Painful and long separation notice

Post by Robin » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:58 am

nutrition wrote:
Tony-S-Ma wrote:
Imbalance occurs when one partner grows faster in one function, in case of nutrition, she thinks a lot more now. And this really irritates the weak feeling of her husband. He may not be able to handle it unless he is into awakening business to increase his feeling to cover your increasing focus in life.
TonySma thank you. I thought i was less into thinking now that i follow ET teachings. i really do not want to develop more thinking that i already do. my mind goes 1,000 miles per hour and now i also wake up at night with an super active mind which i try to come down by use the power of now. and it works at times.
I would have to say that my husband has been super cold since he announced he wants to separate (almost a year ago). before that he was a lot more affectionate and he would express his feelings. i was always very critical of him and nagging, harping etc... so at the end he stopped expressing any opinion or feelings for fear of being attacked.

Tony, i see that you were able to let go of your ex. That is the stage i am in right now. i have to let go of my husband. he is ready to end the relationship. there is nothing left between us. nothing he wants to talk about with me, explore, plan. if i talk about things i know he is very interested in, he does not keep the conversation going. he says a couple of words and that's all. it is getting worse and worse as we are getting closer and closer to my son's departure for college. i have to admit i do not have the strenght for all this any more and handed over to the Source (god) as i alone can't endure the pain of having to soon face this separation. i know i should leave in the now, i do most of the time. but also i have to start planning a little for the future and when my husbad gradually, every day more, pulls away from me then i realized i really have to let him go. (i am thinking about speding a whole month in the states and trying to make arrangements to find someone who needs a housitter. )
how do you let go of someone you love deeply and accept for whom he is without reservations. how do you do that without breaking your heart. mine is broken already and i can barely function these days. i know ET does not recommend prayer but i have resorted to that as i feel destroyed inside most of the time and it takes me a lot of concentration to keep present and still.
thank you for all your help
blessings

Hi nutrition,
My heart goes out for you and I really feel deep connection with your pain. The situation you are in is very pain full because you are hanging in limbo where you have to wait and nothing is clear. In my life I experience these situations as the place where the ego gets real easy so strong that I end up in panic. Wanting to fix the now, not being able, not wanting to finish something which might have some hope etc.
The Source/God is my only refuge, the place of space and love. Sometimes I run away from it but when the pain gets too strong I pray and leave it over. It feels for me like a cramp around my heart is losing up and I can breathe again and be in the space. I noticed too that warmth and love are floating in the dry and dead inner me.
But when the thinking and worrying starts the battle is on, something in me wants to have control, wants and needs and is afraid and when I believe, only I can fix it, yes, need to fix it I am near to fall into the painbody and start a mess. Then being tired and worn out I turn to God again and find open arms. I wonder myself why I am not hanging around more with the source and have a good time instead of choosing suffering all the time.
I don’t think there is anything wrong in prayer, its wonderful and I can’t see nothing in ET s teaching talking against it. There is a kind of prayer which will get you into a mess so, and that is when you don’t let go and give the mess to God and want to work it with praying it into the way you want it. Trying to change and control instead of a capitulation and a turning over. I learned that thing but I still take the mess back again when I left if and the circle of suffering and not suffering starts again.
Its strange that ego and the battle with it.
I wish you all the best in the world and a peaceful and loving experience in God
Yours
Robin

nutrition
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Re: Painful and long separation notice

Post by nutrition » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:12 am

Thank you Robin. Yes the pain body has taken me over totally and what you said is right on target: i want to fix it, can't let go of this relationship. i need it to be the way i wanted to be. it is not going to happen. the pain body has been very strong as now it has a lot of pain to feed on. i am learning to stay with it and not let it take me over completely, but today i really had to drag myself to work, but i did it. the temptation was to give in but i decided to be present and deal with the now. it has been a year now. i think i am one of those that has a 99% active pain body so i have a big battle and staying present is the key. this forum really helps, ET books and the podcasts i listen to help as well.
Robin, is all the pain you feel related to your relationship as well?
blessings

Robin
Posts: 97
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 2:11 pm

Re: Painful and long separation notice

Post by Robin » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:47 am

nutrition wrote:Thank you Robin. Yes the pain body has taken me over totally and what you said is right on target: i want to fix it, can't let go of this relationship. i need it to be the way i wanted to be. it is not going to happen. the pain body has been very strong as now it has a lot of pain to feed on. i am learning to stay with it and not let it take me over completely, but today i really had to drag myself to work, but i did it. the temptation was to give in but i decided to be present and deal with the now. it has been a year now. i think i am one of those that has a 99% active pain body so i have a big battle and staying present is the key. this forum really helps, ET books and the podcasts i listen to help as well.
Robin, is all the pain you feel related to your relationship as well?
blessings
No, I see that relationship is the tool which the ego uses and I might use for enlightment or suffering. I am struggling with the meaning of life, love, faith, death, sickness and the worlds mess. I dont know what happend with me as I was not like it when I was young. After I got kids I changed a lot and became afraid of life, wanting to protect them and noticed that I could not. I was living in a dream running my show and several things in my life made me to wake up and I got real sensitive. The most freedom, love and peace I have being in the presence with God, but I am running away all the time and up being the type of guy who put his finger into the fire and pulls it back. Thinking how wonderfull it feels not to have the pain but after a while I stop the finger right back into it, as stupid as it can be only to experience a kind of faked life. That is what ET calls the life drama and BK my story. When I noticed it I gave up on playing my game and became nacked, this state of mind has the real chance of life if I let go. But often I want a quick fix not believing that I am love and I am in God and need nothing. I believe instead the egos needingness and the bad feelings of panic and feel terrible. Again I am starting the merry go round and end up with God. The problems I have in my relastionship are deeply related how I feel, I noticed that when I am happy and releaxed in the source, my wife is different too. We are all connected I believe.

all the best
Robin

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