Being Human

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Re: Being Human

Postby smiileyjen101 » Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:35 am

I've seen many dances in my time, and many that have moved me to tears and deep felt emotion.
...
I've been really moved by some dance, but can't say whether there has been any representations of my particular form of pain in dance.

I'm sure no two people are moved by exactly the same things for exactly the same reasons.


I didn't see it personally though, still not sure why everyone felt he did what he claimed he would do.

Previously in this topic we've discussed 'frequencies' and resonances - I'm not sure for 'all' the audience and online audiences and those that were affected by the song and the dance, some times in really deep pain sadness it rings at a frequency all on its own - higher/finer/sharper than a paper cut.

Having written that though I noticed some things in interpreting your offerings ... you are 'looking' at/for it - as expressed in your words "I didn't see it ,
and yet recognising that the audience were using their interpretive 'feeling' senses - "everyone felt"

I also noticed ... word usage has its own resonance that once it leaves the sender it is in the 'eye of the beholder' - the receiver

... the words 'personally though' - that's already denoting separation - isolating your person, albeit with an almost apologeticness, it's still 'stand alone', stand outside of this.

Another word used is 'claimed' - if ever you want to throw cold water on anything say someone 'claimed' something it already tells everyone it's a lie just waiting to be uncovered :lol: If you've ever done any media analysis you'll know the benign word is 'said'.


If you look up to my earlier response you may see this again -
somewhere along the way there was a shift. Somewhere along the way all the pre-judgements were laid down in favour of going 'with' him - of giving him (my) heart and soul in trust, accepting that yes there are fears, yes there are memories and sad emotions that lay dormant, protected by layers of hardening against such innocence and beauty and authenticity as to allow yourself to so fully 'feel' and be one with the music.


For whatever reason his 'performance' didn't 'resonate' with you, didn't 'touch' you - now whether it was because you were using your eyes 'looking' for 'something' and you're not going to find feelings with your eyes -

or whether it was not being willing to 'merge' with him and 'feel' the expression, for whatever reason.

I did already say his introduction was audacious, to absolutely lay it on the line as he did - many would shrink back from that, even if they don't realise that's what they're doing. The tittering was both 'go on then prove it' - this 'claim' (defensive / deflecting) and mentally 'separating' - that's the point of the judges and the audience in such an arena, which is also why I felt it was an act of courage - being that vulnerable, that naked, that open to sharing on the feeling level in such an arena - one of 'competition', one of 'winners' and 'losers' one of open judging - in some ways I think this was also part of what blew one the judges away. Over history it's been the open, nakedly authentic, openly sharing souls that have been persecuted by those who fear it as a mode of being.

For whatever reason it didn't resonate at a like vibration with you. In the interaction though - as a 'receiver' we hold the 'power' of valuing (or not) anything, we hold the power whether or not to merge with a particular frequency at a particular time, we hold the power whether or not to let go of our 'position' and move or let ourselves be moved.

I am certainly glad though so many people were moved by his interpretive dance and were able to enjoy his performance and don't doubt that people genuinely felt what they did.


There's something both socially 'correct' and spiritually 'wistful' about this statement David. Do you often let yourself go when it comes to pain of this sort?
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Re: Being Human

Postby DavidB » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:13 pm

I found the song quite moving, but after watching the dance 3 times, I have to admit that I really am still quite in the dark.

some times in really deep pain sadness it rings at a frequency all on its own - higher/finer/sharper than a paper cut.


I have found in my own experience, that sadness, when allowed to be as it is, without judgement or interpretation, is really quite beautiful. On a spectrum of emotion, I would have to say that sadness is parallel, yet opposite to Joy. Sadness is very deeply felt and really quite beautiful.

Having written that though I noticed some things in interpreting your offerings ... you are 'looking' at/for it - as expressed in your words "I didn't see it ,
and yet recognising that the audience were using their interpretive 'feeling' senses - "everyone felt"


The limitations of language.

or whether it was not being willing to 'merge' with him and 'feel' the expression, for whatever reason.


I am willing, offering complete surrender, no resistance, or none that I am aware of. I am certainly more than willing to expose any hidden resistance though, that is why I was so curious in 1st place of course.

Do you often let yourself go when it comes to pain of this sort?


Yes, of course, whenever the situation arises.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: Being Human

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:32 am

: ) Jen said: Having written that though I noticed some things in interpreting your offerings ... you are 'looking' at/for it - as expressed in your words "I didn't see it ,
and yet recognising that the audience were using their interpretive 'feeling' senses - "everyone felt"

David B said: The limitations of language.


For me it's not really a limitation as much as an authentic expression - sensory uptake focus > translation > reformatting > expression, that is able to be noticed. It's not really important, and it's not something I stress about, in my work I 'create' and 'interpret' authentic expression so I'm aware of it, the modalities of that process above and where modalities of the sensory uptake focus shift - as in the second post in this thread as to the available sensory stimuli.

Most folks 'give away' the pathway by the language they use. If you go back to what is available in stimuli and what will you notice/define by the explosion of available stimuli in any given moment it appears to me that you sensory recognised - now whether that was by feel or by visual, or audio cues the 'feeling' impact on some audience members was apparent to you


Now of course these available stimuli come in multi-modal clumps so it is often hard to define if one mode is more active than another. It was just interesting for me that you didn't say "I didn't feel it .... everyone felt' or 'I didn't see it... everyone saw' - so by the 'see it'.... 'everyone felt' you are switching modalities of processing. The audience members and myself that were affected opened and focussed through the feeling sense, whereas you were looking for the visual performance to touch you. If you go back to thinking about the dances that have moved you .... it's likely they did something visually spectacular, or the combination of the visual cues were gob smacking for you - if you are more tuned into your visual mode of standing under a thing.

It's the funniest thing to 'unpack' conversations between folks who are using different modes of interpretation and expression. It's been noticed that when someone is keenly paying attention they tend to fall to a 'favoured' modality to give them the most cues - be that audio, visual, tactile, or read and write (word use) ... three guesses which one I honed in on here ; )

It's just another area of awareness that can open things up if we notice both our own stream / flow of stimuli path and the modalities we are using, and the flow and modalities being used by others. From there we can learn to widen both the stimuli in noticing and the stimuli interpretation out expression.

As I said earlier, it's not something I stress about, I use it professionally and it has some positive benefits, not unlike understanding the different 'love languages' there are different 'experience of' flows of modality.

On things that are experientially important or when we're in awareness we can widen our focus to a knowingly multimodal awareness. If we are at odds with a thing we can learn to follow back the stimuli path and maybe re-route it if necessary or widen it out.

In some ways this does go to why two people can experience exactly the same moment and have totally different perspectives of it.

These things are used in education and training, and in marketing and entertainment (movies, concerts etc) now, providing stimuli across the modes to capture the attention and processing of the most possible number of participants, rather than the old way of the lowest common denominator.

The acronym VARK stands for Visual, Aural, Read/write, and Kinesthetic sensory modalities that are used for learning information. Fleming and Mills (1992) suggested four modalities that seemed to reflect the experiences of the students and teachers. Although there is some overlap between them they are defined as follows. [For a detailed description of the initial construction and limitations of VARK, and for other works on learning styles, see the bibliography and the seminal article.]

Remember life (and work) are multimodal so there are no hard and fast boundaries.

(Explained in more detail and somewhere online you can do a 'test' to see if you lean more naturally towards any particular modes or combinations of modes - )
http://www.vark-learn.com/english/page.asp?p=categories


Show me an example of something that really moved you David, I'm always curious :)
Whatever you were hoping to 'see' didn't occur in this instance. What he was hoping to share in feeling, just didn't have an open pathway to flow through.
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Re: Being Human

Postby DavidB » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:28 am

Show me an example of something that really moved you David, I'm always curious :)


I was going to find some movie that I found moving but then I though, movies are just acting, so I decided not to use that example. It's sort of the same with dance too though I thought. This is not to say that the actors and dancers don't really draw upon real emotion to express what they intend, I simply prefer to offer an example of real-life spontaneous emotion instead.

There have been so many, I hardly no where to begin. I was watching a TV show last night, where victims of assault who had either died or been seriously injured were discussing their 1st hand experiences or the experience of being a loved one that had to go through the protracted death of their family member. The raw emotion, honesty and bravery of these people as they spoke about their experiences and what they have learned from these experiences, really choked me up.

Have you ever watched intervention? It's a documentary where people suffering from addiction are confronted by family to encourage them to go to rehab and recover from their illness. I find this very moving.

I used to suffer from very low self esteem and very poor self image. Ive been with my partner now for over 11 years, and it was her love and devotion that helped me to see that my thinking and perception was terribly distorted. When we first started going out, I was terribly unwell mentally and drank to excess every day. Even though I hated myself and could see no good in me, she loved me unconditionally and saw in me those things I could not see for myself. She loved me totally and allowed me for the first time in my life, to see that I was worthy of being loved.

I remember the first time she called me gorgeous. I thought, she must be talking to the wrong person or have me mistaken for someone else. Me, gorgeous? No, I'm retched.But she said many beautiful things and treated me beautifully, with love and affection. I'd never been treated with such unconditional love, ever.

She helped me to see that I was indeed loveable and I could also share that love with others. If it wasn't for her, I'd probably be dead now. She helped me to awaken from darkness, she helped me to see the light.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: Being Human

Postby smiileyjen101 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:00 pm

David thank you for sharing your experiences. Empathy is a wonderful connective uptake of stimuli processed in love.

I love how you speak about your partner's love for you allowing you to see your beauty in the mirror of her. Do you realise now you always were / are gorgeous?

Unconditional love is ... the 'light'. It's pretty amazing how little of it it takes for someone to feel/experience it and how easy it is to share it.

On movies and artistic experiences, if we can get ourselves out of the way we can connect on vibrational levels whether something is 'real' or 'dramatised' with the same 'energy'. It's how fears (false emotions appearing real) or things of the past relived or things projecting from the future can also touch us and become stimuli we are processing in the present.

The journey of being human in all its fullness and contrasts. Authenticity shines doesn't it.
Respect allows a person to drop many of the cloaks of deception, be that self respect, or respect from another, its intensity is quite compelling, albeit disrespect has the same level of intensity.
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Re: Being Human

Postby DavidB » Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:32 pm

Unconditional love is ... the 'light'. It's pretty amazing how little of it it takes for someone to feel/experience it and how easy it is to share it.


Indeed.

I see unconditional love as absolute acceptance. Unconditional love is... truly knowing that no one is ever responsible for anything and therefore, forgiveness is always and infinite. :)

This reminds me of a final phrase from Yeshua before dying on the cross, "forgive them father, for they know not what they do."
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: Being Human

Postby smiileyjen101 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:36 am

In interplays and interactions things mentioned in this thread are arising around me at the moment
- sense, vibrational resonances and frequencies, egoic and awareness communing, the mis-takes of victimhood (the slowest of all frequencies in impotent fear).

A person dear to me, who was intimately aware of my acceptance of many things outside of my 'control' and my attitude of gratitude and acceptance, enjoyment and enthusiasm has amid amazing synchronicities been totally unexpectedly (for him and his) diagnosed with a fast moving cancer.
We met just prior to the diagnosis after many many years of not seeing each other and found our easy 'in synch' had not been diminished by the years.

We met again rather sooner than he had thought, in order to progress a project more quickly than he thought we would, after the diagnosis.

Like the mention of Melissa Etheridge's approach to those that would see her as 'victim' of breast cancer and her acceptance of it, he is pragmatic and very medically knowledgeable, but he compassionately sees others around him falling apart.

When we met post-diagnosis we hugged and I asked him how he was (not in that condescending fearful way.. just as 'me' as I always am).
He said 'I'm okay, I'm the same person that met with you a few weeks ago, but everyone else is falling apart around me, so that's difficult.
I smiled and said "Yep, you haven't changed, it's just new information, and don't I know how that is!'
He looked very thoughtful for a moment, weighed it up and nodded.
'You're right you know, it's just new information.'

We broke off to 'get to work' and in his heart I felt him wondering how he could impart that to those that love him and now fear for him.
He's extremely respectful of others' boundaries and it will be an interesting journey for him on so many levels.

I am so grateful ... for it all.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: Being Human

Postby kwes » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:57 pm

Can it be that the human label itself hinders us from moving beyond it? I feel like when I move past the physical body, I actually become more in control of it.
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Re: Being Human

Postby smiileyjen101 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:53 am

Nice noticing kwes, particularly in view of having just read your other thread about your journey in awareness :D

eg: when you are sitting 'with' a tree you don't 'notice' that you are a human being and they are a tree. Even more so you don't notice the other adjective-descriptive labels attached to both of you - eg: elm or oak, tall or small, wide or narrow, & male or female, awakened or not.. you are just in harmony 'with' the eternal energies that make up both of you, brought together in this moment.

When you 'move past the physical body' you recognise the vessel / instrument that it is - it's both magnificent in its intricacies and clumsy compared to the energy that powers through it.

In terms of how this applies to examples in your other thread eg:
+ Nothing was forced. I was riding life in the moment and yet it was the most synchronus time of my life. i.e. I would show up at the train station without checking times or schedules and the train would pull up 30 seconds later...

When you are 'one' with what is every thing 'appears' helpful and in harmony. Even if the train didn't pull into the station for 30 minutes you would be 'one' with whatever 'is' in those moments until it did, and when it did you would still feel appreciation for its arrival (gratitude & generosity). ET talks about this in terms of being present while 'waiting'.

Being out of harmony with what is would be bemoaning that a train just left the station two minutes ago and the next one is not due until 30 minutes later, judging 'what is' and aligning them in terms of 'good' or 'bad'.

The 'disharmony' you describe in the other thread is kind of elements of this - in compassion turned judgemental 'sadness', one does see the descriptive 'labels' and the brain tries to process them and sort them in terms of 'good' & 'bad'.. This is the human condition too, elements of our evolution in our species - the fall from grace & the 'knowledge' (separation of) of good and evil.

The 'necessity' of thinking one is moving their life forward is a grasp at control and over using 'doing' to alleviate fear of 'being', the 'goal' then becomes a means to an end - a life that others will agree is worthy etc - whether that is 'working towards' getting ahead in a culturally accepted state or if not doing this for oneself and ones' family, then the other 'acceptable' pathway is 'helping others' - the journey of sacrifice. We are a funny species. In order to 'help others' we need to simultaneously promote and continue the fear - and the problems of the world, and so we get lost in the spiral of insanity of creating and solving, rather than being.

In equilibrium one can both do and be in harmonious awareness - like with the tree or the train - watch events unfolding as we are participating (doing) or watching a flower - there was also violence and struggle for their petals to emerge within the perfectly synchronistic nature of nature of the rains and the sunshine turning up at exactly the right time, like the worm interacting with the earth to create the composition of the earth that held and fed the seed to colour its petals 'just so' from the mineral contents interacting with the roots etc.

Balance can be had in doing and being, and one can be aware of both in movement and motion whilst responding to 'what is' in a participatory nature, even when something 'feels' violent - 'change is the 'violence' that throws us headlong into our future;.
Think of your self as the train that 'turns up' at the right place at the right time :D
eg: if someone is concerned about you not planning and doing to their level of comfort, remember that is not 'about you' that is their perception within their journey - something about you being 'free' of the concerns they think you should be concerned about denotes how tightly they are holding on to that perception.

In terms of other people judging and sharing their concerns about your journey -
If it were only in concern for you a smile and 'I'm happy' from you would alleviate their concerns. (make sense?)

If it is their own concern about the 'rightness' of their journey if they see you happy and are unhappy themself, you may be like a prickle in their consciousness.

If however one is bludging off another's (or collective societal) efforts for their needs and taking without giving equal in return, then some balance needs to be restored for that relating to come into harmony, which is why some would say 'Oi, get a job!!' if we spent all our time sitting under a tree and still expecting to eat the fruits of another's work.
If we are a gardener sharing the fruits of our work and receiving fruits of another's work, then harmony is in progress and nobody would give a hoot about how much time one spends sitting with a tree.

:D
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Re: Being Human

Postby DavidB » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:17 am

I've been away for a while, traveling to the middle east and to Europe.

The experience of travel I am grateful for, as anything that can broaden my consciousness is welcome, although sometimes not always enjoyable. For instance, traveling to places that were outside of my usual localized contextual sense of consciousness created within myself an awareness that I had not before encountered, a sense of expansion that felt somewhat overwhelming and disconcerting for a while. The expansion of consciousness left me feeling ungrounded, vulnerable and confused, as I struggled to bring theses qualities of expansion and groundedness together in a way that could be both complementary and at the same time unmanipulated by what my mind desired. Interestingly, this feeling of vulnerability and confusion didn't occur until I was back home and had to reorient back to my usual lifestyle and environment.

My point is, sometimes life presents opportunities that are not at first easy to accept, as we may become uncertain or maybe even frightened of what may be presented. It can be challenging to remain present through these difficulties trusting that there will be a fortuitous outcome, one where the evolution of consciousness can find an avenue for expression. We don't always know what to do or how to cope and sometimes this can be potentially overwhelming frightening. Which is to mean, sometimes we may feel we are unable to trust in the conscious development going on beneath our own human awareness because we are unable to see the completed picture before it is finished. Acceptance sometimes becomes a luxury rather than a certainty.

I recently read a book, which was the last thoughts compiled by the recently deceased Christopher Hitchens entitled "Mortality", of whom I loved dearly for his towering intellect and for his sobering judgments for which he was always happy to share quite generously. He died from esophageal cancer by the way, probably brought about by his smoking and drinking. None the less, I am saddened by his unfortunate passing.

I recommend that you read his last book, it is a generous insight into the process of cancer treatment and all it entails as one approaches the imminent demise of health, coping with the multitudes of challenges toward death. I for one am grateful for Christopher's sharing. Being human brings with it the inevitability of death for all of us, and having his insights makes death that much more human and that much more comforting.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: Being Human

Postby smiileyjen101 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:21 pm

Welcome back DavidB, nice to see you posting.
DavidB wrote:
The experience of travel I am grateful for, as anything that can broaden my consciousness is welcome, although sometimes not always enjoyable. For instance, traveling to places that were outside of my usual localized contextual sense of consciousness created within myself an awareness that I had not before encountered, a sense of expansion that felt somewhat overwhelming and disconcerting for a while.

The expansion of consciousness left me feeling ungrounded, vulnerable and confused, as I struggled to bring theses qualities of expansion and groundedness together in a way that could be both complementary and at the same time unmanipulated by what my mind desired.

Interestingly, this feeling of vulnerability and confusion didn't occur until I was back home and had to reorient back to my usual lifestyle and environment.

It's funny-niggly isn't it, when one is outside of their 'normal' environment there is no one or no thing to confine the notions of 'who you are' and reflect them back to you in your 'assumed' way, and so you are, as you say more 'expanded', you can totally 'recreate' yourself if you desire.

and then on top of that whichever way you 'are' (abroad or back home) a few weeks later there is a sense of 'missing' the other, a disorientation that feels sooooo as the culture shock effects permeate our senses.

Coming 'home' with these expanded perspectives, as the excitement of our return settles and people go 'back to their lives', we notice things that were taken for granted before - customs, beliefs, opinions, relationships - in a 'wider' conception. Hence the culture shock and sometimes yes difficulty in re-integrating.

Can you imagine what it was like for the astronaut-moon walkers? :shock:
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Re: Being Human

Postby DavidB » Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:21 pm

OMG I couldn't even imagine the disorientation incurred from a journey into outer space, the mind boggles. As much as it would pain my human earth bound self to experience, that journey into the ether would have been immense.

Much more close to home though, I have found myself mellow, much more willing to accept, albeit with consideration, many more points of view.

I might even say at this point, that consciousness may have its own agenda and I am stepping out of the way.
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Re: Being Human

Postby rideforever » Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:43 pm

DavidB wrote:I recently read a book, which was the last thoughts compiled by the recently deceased Christopher Hitchens entitled "Mortality", of whom I loved dearly for his towering intellect and for his sobering judgments for which he was always happy to share quite generously. He died from esophageal cancer by the way, probably brought about by his smoking and drinking. None the less, I am saddened by his unfortunate passing.

I recommend that you read his last book, it is a generous insight into the process of cancer treatment and all it entails as one approaches the imminent demise of health, coping with the multitudes of challenges toward death. I for one am grateful for Christopher's sharing. Being human brings with it the inevitability of death for all of us, and having his insights makes death that much more human and that much more comforting.

I can find a soft spot for Hitchens.

But like all "atheists" he was a coward. He spent years becoming famous crucifying the religions, when a short trip to a meditation centre would have shown him it was all true.

But he was too in love with his anger, his tirade, and himself.

Courage - YES. But it takes no courage to sit in a lynch mod of baying atheists saying : "Those people over there are the problem."

How utterly ordinary.

He was wrong. It is not the end. He will come back and back and back ... that is the punishment.

Death is liberation, but for that you need to be awakened. Maybe next time Hitch.

Perhaps atheists don't understand the SCALE of what awakening is. This small monkey-species who can't find his trousers in the morning has only a very faint chance of connecting to the mind of god.

It is the cessation of all that you are, the surrender of your entire identity ... nothing remains. It is choosing a kind of suicide so that the Truth lives through you. And the understanding that this is the way as "what you are" has no future.

I recommend you don't read his book because cowardice we already know.
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Re: Being Human

Postby Webwanderer » Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:27 pm

rideforever wrote:He was wrong. It is not the end. He will come back and back and back ... that is the punishment.

Punishment? It sounds like you are suggesting that life in this human experience is a kind of hell. I know that some subscribe to this perspective, endless rounds of incarnation to work off lifetimes of karma. There was a time when I saw it somewhat that way myself. The problem with that take is that the haters of the world would only come back for more pain and find more reason to hate and therefore create yet more karma to balance. The true Saints of the world are in a micro minority.

There is a more encompassing, more inclusive perspective that sees the human experience quite differently. One that suggest reincarnation is voluntary and a matter of pointed exploration into the human experience, and that all experience, when seen in the Light of Soul clarity is valuable in the expansion of consciousness for all Being(s).

Retribution and punishment is a human concept and has little place in an unconditionally Loving existence.

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Re: Being Human

Postby rideforever » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:00 am

You are right, there is a more inclusive perspective. There are many perspectives.

Once you are finished, you can awaken.

As Buddha says, there is suffering.

Meaning, you think you enjoy it, but at a deeper level you are in hell.

There is no difference between the "haters of the world" and anyone else. That is just superficial. People are unconscious, that is all.

Punishment ? Let me say suffering instead.
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