Being Human

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rideforever
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Re: Being Human

Post by rideforever » Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:51 pm

Webwanderer wrote:Abraham points out that emotions are our guide in determining whether we are in, moving toward, or away from alignment with Source, and indeed they are
How can I be sure that this is correct ? Emotions could be a mistake, something not to follow, something conditioned, something irrelevant to me ? Am I my emotions ?

And perhaps I have to develop into something that can wisely follow emotions ?
Or perhaps my emotions need to develop into something that can be wisely followed ?

How can I be sure of following them now ?

If you make a decision to follow something because someone said so - it could be very dangerous, couldn't it ?
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Re: Being Human

Post by heidi » Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:36 pm

If you stop thinking and just feel, then your response will arise from a place of informed skillful means that will be beneficial to all including you. That's been my experience, anyway.
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Re: Being Human

Post by rideforever » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:29 pm

heidi wrote:If you stop thinking and just feel, then your response will arise from a place of informed skillful means that will be beneficial to all including you. That's been my experience, anyway.
Emotions are just thoughts of the body - aren't they. Why should they lead you anywhere more real than thoughts arising from the 'mind' ? It's a question. I am asking it because I don't want to go the wrong way.
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Webwanderer
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Re: Being Human

Post by Webwanderer » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:39 pm

rideforever wrote:How can I be sure that this is correct ?
How can you be sure anything is correct? Not a rhetorical question. What is the best measure of determining what is correct, specifically for you? We all have to make this determination for ourselves. We can take someone else's pointer, but eventually we are going to have to make a judgment based on the the experience we had from following another's suggestion.

This is not a bad thing at all. We all profit from the experience and wisdom of those that have come before us. The challenge is which pointers we consider worth exploring and which are set aside. But here we are back to where we started. How can you be sure the choices we make are the correct ones? At its base it's no one's responsibility for your choice of what's right but you. The good news is that once you see, through direct experience, the value of the choices you made in the life course you follow, you own it as your own. What others may think or say becomes a whole lot less relevant.
If you make a decision to follow something because someone said so - it could be very dangerous, couldn't it?
Sure, but living in ignorance also has its own issues. That's why one is wise not to follow another's pointers simply on their word alone, but through a sense of you own inner guidance. But what is the nature of that inner guidance? What is its language? If not how something feels on a consciousness level, then what?

Emotions and what one feels are not the same thing. One feels emotions. Emotions are the sensual/experiential byproduct of thought and action. What I am suggesting that you explore/experiment with, is feeling your emotions in the context of a spiritual guidance system to gauge the quality your thought and experience. Not in the sense of right or wrong, but in the experiential value of how you perceive your life. It's just a kind of litmus test to help guide you through life's experiences and give you feedback on how you are perceiving things. Take it or leave it, it's up to you. But at least you have some actionable insight on your painful, and happier moments.

WW

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Re: Being Human

Post by smiileyjen101 » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:48 pm

emotion is part of the 'after' thought, the bit between sensing and reacting based on the cognition of the stimuli.

Emotion is interpreted by filtering the combination of stimuli.

It may be perceived before thought manifests, or it may be in reaction to thought that has already manifested.
rideforever, are you aware of when your energy stiffens, when you are resisting something and you grow a 'thicker skin' to separate you from whatever it is you're hardening yourself against?

Whether the 'thing' you are resisting is a thought, a fear, an emotion, an action, a set of circumstances or any thing, you have 'read' or interpreted some elements of stimuli to mean threat to self.

Do you understand the difference in your energy vibration when you were in panic the other night and when you're being light-hearted?

Love energy is high vibrational.

Fear is slowed down and thickened.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: Being Human

Post by rideforever » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:21 pm

smiileyjen101 wrote:rideforever, are you aware of when your energy stiffens, when you are resisting something and you grow a 'thicker skin' to separate you from whatever it is you're hardening yourself against?
Yes I am, I am very aware. But I am not this body so this has nothing to do with the question.
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Re: Being Human

Post by rideforever » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:27 pm

"What is the best measure ?"

There is no measure because if you measure anything then you are not engaged in the truth. Truth cannot be something you weigh. Why not ? Because if it is a matter of your opinion, in what sense is it Truth ?

"We all profit from the experience and wisdom of those that have come before us"

Before I ask again - how can you be sure ? - I would say that mankind has repeated the same mistake over and over for 500,000 years - there is no learning, or little learning. And personally I am looking for more than a drop every 500,000 years.

I am not looking for "inner guidance" or something vague. I would like instructions to find what I can unquestionably know to be the truth, now.


Emotions : now I have heard that people should follow or trust their emotions. People in many disciplines say this. My question is why ? Why are they going to get you anywhere ?
Last edited by rideforever on Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Being Human

Post by smiileyjen101 » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:45 pm

I am not looking for "inner guidance" or something vague. I would like instructions to find what I can unquestionably know to be the truth, now.
You keep skimming across the surface of the lake saying I want to know what's at the bottom, but I don't want to get wet.

I want to know what's at the bottom but I don't want to believe you that it's okay in there.

I want to know what's at the bottom but someone should hold my hand and be my truth for me.

And if someone gives me their truth I can stand above the water and say how do I know that's the truth? And in doing so feel right about not dipping my toe in there.

Dive in rideforever, the water's fine.
Nobody's going to push you in.


.... I know, I know, you'll say why should I believe you?
Do or don't, nobody's invested in your choices except you. You're the one searching.
No choice is wrong, it just brings a different experience.

I'm reminded of the notion 'piss, or get off the pot'. :wink:
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com

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Re: Being Human

Post by smiileyjen101 » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:00 pm

Emotions : now I have heard that people should follow or trust their emotions. My question is why ? Why are they going to get you anywhere ?
Quite simply you've missed the point/s. Nobody is telling you to trust your emotions. They're telling you to be conscious of what it is you are feeling... the whole beginning of this thread was to point out all the incredible depth of stimuli available and that some 'choose' to focus on some stimuli more than other stimuli and then interpret them into thoughts and emotions. Sometimes these interpretations are made awarely, sometimes mis-takenly.

The 'mis-takes' that humans make are because of their interpretation of stimuli. Whether it's filtered in love (open to what is) or fear (closed - making enemy, obstacle, means to an end).
ww said: Emotions and what one feels are not the same thing. One feels emotions. Emotions are the sensual/experiential byproduct of thought and action. What I am suggesting that you explore/experiment with, is feeling your emotions in the context of a spiritual guidance system to gauge the quality your thought and experience.
heidi wrote:
If you stop thinking and just feel, then your response will arise from a place of informed skillful means that will be beneficial to all including you. That's been my experience, anyway.
smiileyjen wrote: emotion is part of the 'after' thought, the bit between sensing and reacting based on the cognition of the stimuli.

Emotion is interpreted by filtering the combination of stimuli.

It may be perceived before thought manifests, or it may be in reaction to thought that has already manifested.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com

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Re: Being Human

Post by rideforever » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:23 pm

rideforever wrote:I would like instructions to find what I can unquestionably know to be the truth
smiileyjen101 wrote:I'm reminded of the notion 'piss, or get off the pot
You choose your approach. I'll choose mine.
smiileyjen101 wrote:Sometimes these interpretations are made awarely, sometimes mis-takenly.
All interpretations are ... interpretations. I.e. not reality.

That is the meaning of the word interpretation.

If you take the events of your body mind to be you, then you are identified with it.
Last edited by rideforever on Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Being Human

Post by DavidB » Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:55 am

How can I be sure that this is correct ? Emotions could be a mistake, something not to follow, something conditioned, something irrelevant to me ? Am I my emotions ?
It isn't correct. Abraham is a human like the rest of us and is subject to error like the rest of us.

No you are not your emotions, emotions are the bodies response to either an external stimulus or a thought. The body doesn't know the difference between the two, so will respond the same in either circumstances. Emotions can most definitely be mistaken and often are mistaken, they are however a good indication of your true feelings about any given situation and from that perspective always need to be validated, but not ever considered to be an appropriate response to every given situation. Emotions can often be irrational, and require the virtue of temperance in order to maintain balance.
And perhaps I have to develop into something that can wisely follow emotions ?
Yes, you need to be the best judge of any given situation and be able to judge when any given emotion is an appropriate or inappropriate response to any given situation.
Or perhaps my emotions need to develop into something that can be wisely followed ?
Indeed!
How can I be sure of following them now ?
It takes time and work. You spent up till now in your life developing those automatic emotional responses, it takes time and work to sort them out into appropriate and inappropriate responses. For example, if an emotion causes suffering, then we can be pretty sure that the emotion is dysfunctional. It is our task to transform that emotion into a functional emotion. We have the power to do this.
If you make a decision to follow something because someone said so - it could be very dangerous, couldn't it ?
Of course! Wise words.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

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Re: Being Human

Post by smiileyjen101 » Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:34 pm

All interpretations are ... interpretations. I.e. not reality.

That is the meaning of the word interpretation.
(Interesting) interpretation is past tense of interpret -
1.to give or provide the meaning of; explain; explicate; elucidate:
2.to construe or understand in a particular way
So how did you construe your reaction to this thread, how much stimuli were you aware of in your processing of it?
Were you open, in awe at the reminding, or closed minded?
rideforever wrote:
I would like instructions to find what I can unquestionably know to be the truth
You find your own truth by its resonance.

In order to know it you must feel it. In order to feel it and know it you must be aware of the resonances of it. Everything has a resonance in the frequencies of creation in motion.

Find something you know unquestionably to be the truth - state it, feel it, feel the energy level at which it resonates, feel the effect on your senses it has being one in harmony (meeting of harmonics) with you... re-member - now you have a 'measure'.

As earlier suggested fear resonances close down (shrink) your ability to experience all manner of creation energies.

Love opens you up to them.

Nobody can tell you your truth, and I sure don't want to sound evasive or new-agey here - only you can re-member it, become one with it by re-cognising - becoming aware / cognisant of what is real and what is not. And again you cannot project to that in the past or in the future, you only have the available stimuli and understanding of it in any clarity in this moment as explained earlier in this thread.

If you take the events of your body mind to be you, then you are identified with it.
My awareness of energies in motion and my cognisance of them go waaaayyy beyond my body. I've spent many long years open to life energy and creation in all its gory and glory. When I notice a 'different' or unusual frequency I pay even more attention until I am able to place it along the scale of energies. I've shared some of that stuff in another thread in the Beyond the Physical section.

This thread is about recognising energy manifesting and understanding the eternal energies while in human form and how incredibly magnificent it is, as are all parts of creation, the infinite perspective.

Infinite Perspective

Each and every one of us is part of the infinite perspective
seeing reality through our own individual awareness.

Without one of our views
there wouldn't be
absolute fulfillment and completeness.

Akiane Kramarik (age 13)
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: Being Human

Post by Sighclone » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:34 pm

I would like instructions to find what I can unquestionably know to be the truth, now.
Here they are:

1) You are using the wrong tool (your fine mind) to discover the truth. With that tool, and its infinitely discriminating criteria, you will never find the final truth. Never. Never.

2) Considering #1, your fine mind can, however use an ancient phrase, which, from your vast reading is "neti, neti" - meaning "not this, not this." Which is to say that something the mind can understand, recognize, measure, criticize and manage cannot be the truth. This reality is why Ramana's enquiry "Who am I?" works. To discover who you are using the mind has the benefit of ending the use of the mind for the purpose of finding that truth of identity, perhaps after countless hours and months of trying. See #1.

3a) OK, having swallowed #1 and #2 for at least the duration of this post, what else is available? Meditate.

3b) There is that thing called "the heart." For serious thinkers like you, the heart is perhaps best understood as "intuition." For people like you who appreciate the masculine approach (cf. Barry Long), the next step, trusting intuition is harder. It's keystone first step is called "surrender." There is a Zen phrase: "To yield is to conquer." Yielding is a 'stand down' order to the mind. That, is, as a reminder, one of the benefits of regular meditation.

3c) You are probably familiar with Jung's principle of synchronicity (see Wikipedia for a fair review.) As part of the yielding, and fine-tuning your antennae of intuition, become aware of the daily events in your life...are any of them actually pointers? Is there a "message" from the universe trying to get through your big egoic mind, rideforever? (I ask this with great respect, sir....I had a big mind in the driver's seat for 60 years. Harvard, many honors, significant jobs, etc. Learned lots of compelling partial truths with it, too.)

4) The truth will arrive as a 'recognition,' which varies in intensity. It will result from Grace. All seeking will end, but all resolving will not end. Resolving continues, probably for years.

I think Rupert Spira's "Presence, Volumes I and II" represent the best current work on nonduality...he talks about the seamlessness of experience. Arguing about concepts is not the path to awakening.

Be well,

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Being Human

Post by smiileyjen101 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:47 am

Sighclone said: the seamlessness of experience.

Arguing about concepts is not the path to awakening.
I went to an expo yesterday full of all manner of awakening pathways, health alternatives for body, mind and spirit. It was an interesting experience and so full of synchronicities all I could do was smile like an idiot.

There were people there sharing and learning or availing themselves of all manner of massage techniques, healing techniques, knowledge sharing from singing drums to clairvoyance to chakra energies to homeopathy, to aura readings to reflexology, shamanism, nlp, modern witches and wizards, publication houses, iridology, kineisiology, food, ngo charities all 'selling' their ideas, their knowledge, their experiences.

I brought some literature home and in one of them read - The Power of Sound - speaking of the vibrational frequencies of human and plant and animal uptake and scientific experiments with EEG examinations based on arousal from sound that generates from emotional, physical and/or environmental stimuli. The scientist Dr Hans Berger looked at the influence on brain waves and 'states' and how in response to stimuli our brain responds in electrical activity that becomes its own electrical transmission in waves of varying intensity that can also be measured in hertz and has influence on our physiology on a cellular level. The author if this piece John Levine, notes that Berger found evidence of alpha (8-12 hertz) relaxed and beta (12-25 hertz) alert states and that we necessarily need to spend time in both alpha and beta states for our well being.
Too much in one or the other creates imbalances and now they're creating music to tune into alpha states because our environment and current lifestyles tend to overplay beta frequencies.

It seems wherever I look these days 'science' is 'proving' what has already been long known by the ancients who were once demonised and violate for saying or working with any of these movements of energy and the reading / interpreting of them.

And now they hold expos to share these things and people pay money to gain this insight that was once freely shared.

We are a very strange species indeed.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: Being Human

Post by coriolis » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:54 am

Sighclone wrote: I think Rupert Spira's "Presence, Volumes I and II" represent the best current work on nonduality...he talks about the seamlessness of experience. Arguing about concepts is not the path to awakening.

Be well,

Andy
Having just finished Volume II I agree.
Will soon start over again with Volume I with a view to absorbing even more, more deeply.
Look deeply inside yourself and try to find yourself.
The ensuing failure is the true finding
---- Wu Hsin

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