What is the purpose of awakening?

Forum rules
In this category please do not start new topics that aren't directly related to Awakening / Spiritual Enlightenment / Truth-Realization.

Re: What is the purpose of awakening?

Postby TemporalDissonance » Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:05 pm

DavidB wrote:Awakening is something that happens, like sitting happens and eating happens and breathing happens. Nobody every awakens, awakening happens.


Without awakening, you can't say that it is "something that happens" with certainty can you? Even that suggests a purpose.
User avatar
TemporalDissonance
 
Posts: 406
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 3:41 am

Re: What is the purpose of awakening?

Postby smiileyjen101 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:06 am

What is the purpose of awakening?


“Life is a series of natural and spontaneous changes. Don't resist them; that only creates sorrow. Let reality be reality. Let things flow naturally forward in whatever way they like.”
― Lao Tzu
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com
User avatar
smiileyjen101
 
Posts: 3681
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:44 am

Re: What is the purpose of awakening?

Postby karmarider » Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:14 am

It's a good question. Always good to ask the most basic questions.

I like this from the CWG:

“Enlightenment is understanding that there is nowhere to go, nothing to do, and nobody you have to be except exactly who you're being right now.”
karmarider
 
Posts: 2141
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:00 pm
Location: Florida

Re: What is the purpose of awakening?

Postby TemporalDissonance » Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:36 am

Thanks smilleyjen101, karmarider for the quotes.

The proposed question is one that may not have a definite answer from our limited perspective. It is more of an inquiry into what it isn't. :)
User avatar
TemporalDissonance
 
Posts: 406
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 3:41 am

Re: What is the purpose of awakening?

Postby DavidB » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:39 am

TemporalDissonance wrote:
DavidB wrote:Awakening is something that happens, like sitting happens and eating happens and breathing happens. Nobody every awakens, awakening happens.


Without awakening, you can't say that it is "something that happens" with certainty can you? Even that suggests a purpose.


Awakening is the realization that all is illusory.

If all is illusory, then there cannot be anybody there to awaken and not anything to awaken into.

Awakening or not Awakening, there is no certainty.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
User avatar
DavidB
 
Posts: 630
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:55 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: What is the purpose of awakening?

Postby TemporalDissonance » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:34 am

DavidB wrote:
TemporalDissonance wrote:
DavidB wrote:Awakening is something that happens, like sitting happens and eating happens and breathing happens. Nobody every awakens, awakening happens.


Without awakening, you can't say that it is "something that happens" with certainty can you? Even that suggests a purpose.


Awakening is the realization that all is illusory.

If all is illusory, then there cannot be anybody there to awaken and not anything to awaken into.

Awakening or not Awakening, there is no certainty.


Without awakening, "you" wouldn't come to know all is illusory including "you". Yes "you" don't exist absolutely, but as far as I can tell, relatively, you are here as an object that is perceived by my relative "me".

Why then have some illusionary people awaken and not others? Why not have awaken chickens, pigeons or dogs?

Or why not have the whole illusionary world wake up? Why only have some "puppets" wake up?
User avatar
TemporalDissonance
 
Posts: 406
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 3:41 am

Re: What is the purpose of awakening?

Postby DavidB » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:54 am

Without awakening, "you" wouldn't come to know all is illusory including "you". Yes "you" don't exist absolutely, but as far as I can tell, relatively, you are here as an object that is perceived by my relative "me".

Why then have some illusionary people awaken and not others? Why not have awaken chickens, pigeons or dogs?

Or why not have the whole illusionary world wake up? Why only have some "puppets" wake up?


Chickens, pigeons and dogs are already awakened in a sense, as they don't suffer from the human condition of creating an illusory sense of a self. It would be pretty hard to contemplate anything if you don't have a complex language to describe what you're contemplating. There would be no labels for things and therefore no concepts, no past, no future, no stories, no self needing to awaken.

Humans sense their true nature as an emptiness. It's this emptiness that causes us to feel as though there is something missing. We go searching for what appears to be missing, not realizing of course that the emptiness is who we are. We cannot find the emptiness because we are trying to find what isn't missing.

All attempts to awaken are in this sense futile, as the mind is trying to find something it can never understand. Awakening then in this sense, is simply knowing that what you are looking for was never missing, it has always been there, as your essence.

The world then is perfectly fine however it appears. Appearing as those who have apparently awakened and it appears as those who have apparently not awakened. Emptiness doesn't mind either way, it is happy being awakened and unawakened and everything in between, apparently.

The only benefit to awakening then, is that the clarity of the human experience can then become somewhat more clear, shifting from insanity to sanity. This offers us the opportunity of living in alignment with what is and therefore have a much more pleasant human experience. Life becomes lighter and less serious, nothing real matters that much any more and we don't really mind what happens.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
User avatar
DavidB
 
Posts: 630
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:55 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: What is the purpose of awakening?

Postby jimmyrich » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:08 am

This is my current understanding of our earthly life as Perfect spiritual beings.
TemporalDissonance wrote:If we are all mere actors the Awareness directs, what is the purpose of awakening?
Maybe the purpose to awaken is different for each one but I'd say I wanted to awaken because I was not really enjoying my worldly adventure any more. In some ways, awakening has made the adventure better and yet worse since I now know it's just an adventure and not to be taken very seriously any more.
Why have the actors realize they are acting in a play?
Maybe to take some of the sting out of an unhappy drama and to realize that it's just a temporary drama or adventure.
Is the ego (our attachment to our perceived "roles") preventing us from giving a great performance?
IMO, we are always giving a "great performance" and doing exactly what we are supposed to be doing in this adventure.
Is the purpose for the actors to follow directions from the director?
Yes, and we, the perfect spiritual beings here, are the directors of our own earth adventure - even if we do not know it!
To literally "move aside" from and give way to the stage directions?
Yes, by forgetting that we are Perfect beings and it's all a temporary drama to give each of us whatever experience we are here to get or give - or nothing at all!
Do the actors have a say?
Yes.
Is there collaboration?
Yes
Free will?
Yes
Perhaps a better analogy is that of puppets and their puppeteer?
We are both of them - simultaneously
That the ego is literally getting all the strings tangled?
Yes, in accordance to the needs of the adventure we are on.
Are we only to witness the play unfold so that there 's a knowing audience to the theatrics?
I'd say we are witnesses, actors and beneficiaries of this wondrous drama/adventure we have chosen to go on and decided to become unaware of or forget our own Perfect Divinity to get the most out of the adventure and trip.
This is obviously a mind-based inquiry and the mind may not provide the "answer".
In a way, there is no "answer" other than: live it and enjoy your adventure!
And that in the end all actors, stage designers, makeup artist, etcs and the ultimate director is one.
Yes, it's all the divine being who has chosen to forget and then go on a trip.
But does only the director knows all?
Yes, so long as the director has not chosen to forget their real nature.
The following quote is from Baleskar in his description of the ultimate understanding. Thoughts? Is that it? Why only investigate the ego only? Is that our limitation as humans?
Our only "limitation" as humans, is that we have deliberately forgotten our Perfect Spiritual nature in order to have an imperfect, temporary, form adventure.
“That the only thing a human being can ‘do’ is to investigate thoroughly and honestly who this ‘me’ is, who thinks he is the doer!” Excerpt From: Ramesh S. Balsekar. “The Wisdom of Balsekar.”
And come to realize that we are Perfect Divine beings out "doing" things just for the fun of it!
Just my opinions.......... :D
jimmyrich
 
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:25 am

Re: What is the purpose of awakening?

Postby TemporalDissonance » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:44 pm

DavidB wrote:The world then is perfectly fine however it appears. Appearing as those who have apparently awakened and it appears as those who have apparently not awakened. Emptiness doesn't mind either way, it is happy being awakened and unawakened and everything in between, apparently.

The only benefit to awakening then, is that the clarity of the human experience can then become somewhat more clear, shifting from insanity to sanity. This offers us the opportunity of living in alignment with what is and therefore have a much more pleasant human experience. Life becomes lighter and less serious, nothing real matters that much any more and we don't really mind what happens.


The highlighted line points to the impersonal nature of Emptiness. How do "we" know that it is really impersonal ASIDE from what teachings tells us? Is it verifiable? Or knowable? Experienced?

The "only benefit to awakening..." as you stated still suggest an "evaluation", "judgement" -- which suggest a "purpose". Whether it is a small or big "purpose", this still points to a purpose.
User avatar
TemporalDissonance
 
Posts: 406
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 3:41 am

Re: What is the purpose of awakening?

Postby TemporalDissonance » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:55 pm

jimmyrich wrote:Our only "limitation" as humans, is that we have deliberately forgotten our Perfect Spiritual nature in order to have an imperfect, temporary, form adventure.


"I" sometimes wonder why this is the case. Why did humanity "forget" our true selves? Obviously, it may not be intentional.
User avatar
TemporalDissonance
 
Posts: 406
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 3:41 am

Re: What is the purpose of awakening?

Postby jimmyrich » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:41 pm

TemporalDissonance wrote:
jimmyrich wrote:Our only "limitation" as humans, is that we have deliberately forgotten our Perfect Spiritual nature in order to have an imperfect, temporary, form adventure.
"I" sometimes wonder why this is the case. Why did humanity "forget" our true selves? Obviously, it may not be intentional.

I did it "intentionally" to provide myself with a totally new, surprising and possibly creative experience. If I had come here with full knowledge of my Divine state and all my past adventures, this earthly life might have been either boring or utterly pointless - much like hearing a joke over and over or knowing how a magic act is done - NO SURPRISE - no room for doing/being something new and different! This might be the way creation "evolves" by forgetting what was in the past and coming up with something new and different.
Just my opinion here. :D
jimmyrich
 
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:25 am

Re: What is the purpose of awakening?

Postby DavidB » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:34 am

The highlighted line points to the impersonal nature of Emptiness. How do "we" know that it is really impersonal ASIDE from what teachings tells us? Is it verifiable? Or knowable? Experienced?


Correct, emptiness is impersonal. Emptiness cannot be experienced, known, understood nor verified. Emptiness is empty, there is nothing 'I', 'me', 'you', 'we', can know about that.

The "only benefit to awakening..." as you stated still suggest an "evaluation", "judgement" -- which suggest a "purpose". Whether it is a small or big "purpose", this still points to a purpose.


It only points to a relative purpose, a perceived purpose. Both the apparent 'you' and 'me', will eventually be annihilated, so there was nothing ever done, nothing ever gained, no point, no purpose. Arising out of nothing for a while, doing stuff, and then merging back into nothing. So for all intents and 'purposes', nothing formed, nothing happened, and nothing dissolved.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
User avatar
DavidB
 
Posts: 630
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:55 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: What is the purpose of awakening?

Postby TemporalDissonance » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:41 am

DavidB wrote:It only points to a relative purpose, a perceived purpose. Both the apparent 'you' and 'me', will eventually be annihilated, so there was nothing ever done, nothing ever gained, no point, no purpose. Arising out of nothing for a while, doing stuff, and then merging back into nothing. So for all intents and 'purposes', nothing formed, nothing happened, and nothing dissolved.


Whether it is a relative or absolute purpose, it is a still purpose for the apparent "person".

Are "we" so sure that everything will merge back into nothing?

If Emptiness is indescribable, how can any "one" of us in this world know that we will all merge back into nothingness? That itself is a thought, an illusion, a hypothesis. It's not Truth. Can't "we" see the contradiction in that?
User avatar
TemporalDissonance
 
Posts: 406
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 3:41 am

Re: What is the purpose of awakening?

Postby DavidB » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:15 am

Whether it is a relative or absolute purpose, it is a still purpose for the apparent "person".


Indeed, the apparent person does perceive purpose and meaning.

Are "we" so sure that everything will merge back into nothing?


No 'we' are not sure, we have no certainty about anything, we don't' even know what everything is, let alone whether it merge back into nothing.

If Emptiness is indescribable, how can any "one" of us in this world know that we will all merge back into nothingness? That itself is a thought, an illusion, a hypothesis. It's not Truth. Can't "we" see the contradiction in that?


Indeed. We can't say we know anything at all really.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
User avatar
DavidB
 
Posts: 630
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:55 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: What is the purpose of awakening?

Postby TemporalDissonance » Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:36 pm

DavidB wrote:Indeed. We can't say we know anything at all really.


Agree. My silence is only a reflection of acceptance in our not knowing. :wink:
User avatar
TemporalDissonance
 
Posts: 406
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 3:41 am

PreviousNext

Return to Awakening / Spiritual Enlightenment / Truth-Realization

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest