Changes after awakening

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Changes after awakening

Postby ellen_ » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:31 am

Dear all,

After undergoing the awakening process and becoming more aware of the body we might change our food patters for instance etc. But what about prescription drugs?

I would really like to know what your experience is with this. Do you, just as you are more aware of what you eat and are healthier, do you also start taking less prescription drugs?

I feel like I am much more aware of the effect pain killers for instance, have on my body. My main question though is: what if you were suffering from depression and are taking anti-depressants. Once you're awake you logically can't fall into a depression again because your conscious. But does that mean you can slowly get off meds? Does being ''awake'' mean that you theoretically can live without taking madication all your life. Does that mean that you can get off heavy prescription drugs that were prescribed to you for an illness you were diagnosed with, such as ''chronical depression''?

Mental disease arises from ego, once you are not possessed by it, does it mean you're healed? I really have trouble making sense to awakening vs. meds. I know you cant stop taking your meds against diabetes from one day to another ''just because you awoke''. But in case of mental illness, in case of mania, schizophrenia, paranoia, depression..........isn't it different? What I mean is, Eckhart Tolle for instance says that he suffered from suicidal depression till 29, but then he awoke and it was like a rebirth. Does it make sense that he continues to take anti depressants? In case of mental illness, isnt full awakening like a mental healing where you do not need to medicate your brain because it was to annihilate harmful thoughts you can now control?

To cut things short......if in your past you were diagnosed with chronical bipolar or chronical depression or whatever else.......what if after awakening you feel like you're healed, like you found inner peace (as Eckhart Tolle did), do you still have to fear not to take meds anymore or is it ok?

As to the pain killers etc. do you also have that need to try alternative medicine etc? Thank you for reading :-) . Just so many changes.....I never really cared, took prescription drugs with every little bit of pain and now I feel like for the first time I am able to tackle the real root of all problems which makes me ''not need'' all this chemical stuff as much as before. But at the same time .......dont want to make radical detrimental changes either...so yeah. :-)

Much Love
Ellen
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Re: Changes after awakening

Postby dijmart » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:45 pm

You will probably get different answers, because it depends on the perspective of the one trying to give the answer. Does the person have any experience with mental illness (personal or family), do they believe it's just all in your head, are they a medical professional, do they think there is a majic pill, do they think it's just thought based, do they think awakening will end all challenges in life??? On and on....

Anyways, If you are asking for yourself I would say if you have been stable on your medications and want to go down or off of them talk to your doctor about this. You can go down gradually and if all is okay after a certain amount of time then perhaps going off completely is an option.

It also depends on the severity of the illness and do you have any of the effects of such illness still? There are different mental illnesses there are- thought based (anxiety, schizophrenia), mood disorders (Bipolar) and personality disorders (Borderline PD) they are not all treated the same. Also, they have a genetic, biofeedback, psychosocial and environmental components too.
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Re: Changes after awakening

Postby ellen_ » Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:52 am

Hi,

Thank you for your quick answer. Sorry, my post was a mess.

I have gone through social anxiety, followed by depression and after having gotten out of it, even without medication, I could still not find inner peace. It took me years and years as well as a lot of reading (Eckhart Tolle among others) to finally understand what was happening to me.

What was happening to me for years and years was a conflict inside me between consciousness and ego. After having gotten out of the depression, I knew that there was more to life than our thoughts. But most people identify with their thoughts and ego and it's considered ''normal''. So I felt like I needed to be that kind of ''normal'' (what Eckhart Tolle calls insanity). That was my inner conflict, I felt (and my environment made me understand) that it is not ok to dis-identify from the ego, that it is ''not normal'' etc.

I am writing this because having understood that, I was ''healed' from my ''mental illness''. It was the ego in the first place that got me into it and letting it die was the biggest relief and I still can't believe what a relief this is, it has been torturing all my life. It's as though I am seeing the world with new eyes. Eckhart Tolle often explains that we often have to go through a lot of suffering to awaken, this was certainly my case.

Having said that, my question about medication was mainly because a friend of mine was diagnosed with chronical depression. I feel like her story is similar to mine and she too could heal if she could awaken fully by dealing with her painbody and letting go from her thoughts (the only thing that helped me). I am convinced of that but I still can't make sense of how to understand/deal with awakening vs. medication. How do you combine the two?

You can go through awakening and still be chronic depressive, chronic bipolar, chronic whatever other illness?? That does not make any sense to me as all this disease was created by our mind, our thoughts. And so of course, if we do not identify with our thoughts anymore, we can heal.......maybe not today or tomorrow .....and getting of meds will take time but you should be able to do it. No? The only time you can't do it, is if you continue to identify with your ego or when your ego has driven you so insane you can't awaken anymore?

Basically: if ego is insanity and mental disease just a more developed form of ego, as Eckhart Tolle says in ''The Power of Now'', (taking the example of paranoia) then the logical conclusion is that once you awaken and your ego dies, you cannot suffer from mental disease anymore? Or would it make sense if Eckhart Tolle fell into a depression again seeing his state of mind now? No, he can't.....his ego got him into the depression and now its gone......so no mental illness.

I would really appreciate to hear your opinions on this.

Love,
Ellen
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Re: Changes after awakening

Postby Onceler » Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:26 am

You ask good questions, Ellen. I work in the mental health field and I certainly don't know the answers. As dijmart suggests, each person is complex and unique. I am not averse to meds, but I think there are a lot of other things to try instead of or along with them.....exercise, diet, mind/body activities like yoga or tai chi. I have suffered a lot in my life and never took meds, although it was certainly a prime candidate, and would have potentially suffered less had I done so. Not sure I would have found what I found if my symptoms had been ameliorated.....

There are a lot of other good threads on this subject if you do a search, of course you might get some fresh insights here as well.
Last edited by Onceler on Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Changes after awakening

Postby dijmart » Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:34 am

ellen_ wrote:
I am writing this because having understood that, I was ''healed' from my ''mental illness''. It was the ego in the first place that got me into it and letting it die was the biggest relief and I still can't believe what a relief this is, it has been torturing all my life. It's as though I am seeing the world with new eyes. Eckhart Tolle often explains that we often have to go through a lot of suffering to awaken, this was certainly my case.


It is the case with some that "thought" alone had caused the illness of anxiety/depression, but that is not the case of all. Again, they have a genetic, biofeedback, psycho-social and environmental components too.

Having said that, my question about medication was mainly because a friend of mine was diagnosed with chronical depression. I feel like her story is similar to mine and she too could heal if she could awaken fully by dealing with her painbody and letting go from her thoughts (the only thing that helped me). I am convinced of that but I still can't make sense of how to understand/deal with awakening vs. medication. How do you combine the two?


Not everyone will awaken, because they want to or you want them too, so they will have to use what is available to them. Also, because someone has awakened doesn't mean they won't need medication any longer, depending on the illness and the severity of the illness.

You can go through awakening and still be chronic depressive, chronic bipolar, chronic whatever other illness?? That does not make any sense to me as all this disease was created by our mind, our thoughts. And so of course, if we do not identify with our thoughts anymore, we can heal......


Was it? How do you know this for certain? Again, they have a genetic, chemical, biofeedback, psycho-social and environmental components too. So, ego is just a portion of the battle for severe mental illness. You are looking at it from your own point of view and what worked for you.

Basically: if ego is insanity and mental disease just a more developed form of ego, as Eckhart Tolle says in ''The Power of Now'', (taking the example of paranoia) then the logical conclusion is that once you awaken and your ego dies, you cannot suffer from mental disease anymore?


Ok, but with a severe mental illness such as Bipolar disorder which I was diagnosed with in 09' after a serious suicide attempt that left me in a coma and on life support I don't mess around. I take my meds and see my doc every 6 weeks. Yes, I've been "stable" for a few yrs and just recently went down on my medications. But this isn't as important as staying sane. Don't rush someone off the meds, because you feel it's what's best for them. I still have times that I'm glad the meds are in place, because of having a difficult time coping, although I've realized the Self (capital S). So, is it an instant cure..no, it's not. My mother has Bipolar disorder and that's where I got it from.
Do negative thoughts worsen the condition? yes, is it the whole cause? no. It's a mood disorder, not a thought disorder. I haven't mentioned the Bipolar disorder on open forum for a long time, but was compelled to by your post.

Many people are delusioned that after awakening all mental illness should just vanish, but this is not the case, some that were mainly thought based may, but not all. It's just a challenge in the "now" to deal with as part of one's relative existence. It is just seen with acceptance like any other experience in the relative world.
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Re: Changes after awakening

Postby Onceler » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:59 am

Thanks for your honesty dijmart, there's nothing like the truth. There are certain mental disorders that physically degrade the brain and meds stop and sometimes reverse this degradation. Bi-polar is one and major depression with high levels of cortisal is another. I wouldn't say that awakening cannot reverse mental disorders, but again we are talking about many different types and different levels of effect on the brain. Mediation has demonstrable effects on the brain, but I don't believe there is any evidence that it counteracts major psychological conditions.

I have found that my depression and anxiety continue at times (and I'm talking low-grade, somatic depression and anxiety), but they are no longer a problem. Theses conditions are not who I am and no longer hold the grip on my identity they once did. I'm not enlightened by any means, but I suspect this is the case with awakened folk, these mental conditions run a sub-program, but they are no longer a problem and eventually run their course, as they aren't energized by fear and over identification.
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Re: Changes after awakening

Postby karmarider » Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:46 pm

ellen_ wrote:Having said that, my question about medication was mainly because a friend of mine was diagnosed with chronical depression. I feel like her story is similar to mine and she too could heal if she could awaken fully by dealing with her painbody and letting go from her thoughts (the only thing that helped me). I am convinced of that but I still can't make sense of how to understand/deal with awakening vs. medication. How do you combine the two?


Hi ellen_,

I saw your original post and wanted to reply but wasn't quite sure how to articulate.

I went through most of my adult life with clinical anxiety and major depression. I had taken meds on and off for twenty five years. After a few years of awakening work, I have not taken any meds for depression or anxiety for quite some time now (seven years if I remember correctly).

And so I want to say that the journey which most of us seem to be on here will probably eliminate or reduce the need for psychiatric meds. On the other hand, I am very cautious about saying this. Because, as far as I can see, and based on my own experience, it is very difficult to self-evaluate. There can be considerable congnitive dissonance, and it can be difficult to evaluate how far along I really am. And in my case, my problems with depression and anxiety seemed to be largely psychological. For others, these problems may be related to organic dysfunction, physical damage, chemical imbalances, genetics and so on, and no amount of awakening will reverse that.

So my advice is, don't be in a hurry to try to give up meds, or any other conventional solution which works for you. Remember that even the most enlightened people get sick, get hurt, are subject to physical processes, and die.
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Re: Changes after awakening

Postby dijmart » Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:40 pm

Also, let me add that I have multiple sclerosis, since I was 21 yrs old. which means multiple lesions through out the brain. Many people with this illness also have depression or Bipolar disorder perhaps part of the degrade of the brain Onceler had said started already with folks with M.S. . So, in my case, it may be partly genetics (my mother has Bipolar) and the brain demyelination which caused the Bipolar I think- not ego. So, not all people with mental illness can be lumped into one group, where one could say they could be cured from awakening.

With that being said, I do have a different outlook on it all now then I did years ago. I don't have to over react, dwell on the thoughts/moods/emotions that appear and this has helped to "stablize" my condition. I don't have to suffer and can be insightful into the disorder and recognize when symptoms are appearing and do what is possible to counter act them, be it meds, quiet or relaxation. Yesterday I had something disturbing happen at work and my mood was not good when I got home, thoughts became noisy and it was a challenge. I did get upset, but today I'm fine. That is a major improvement... before something like what happened yesterday would have sent me into a tail spin, out of control and the illness would have completely taken over. Now a days, that doesn't happen really, but that doesn't mean the illness is gone, it just means I'm not completely identified with it any longer.
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Re: Changes after awakening

Postby ellen_ » Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:15 pm

Thank you so much for all your answers and thoughts on this topic.

I was really only asking in order to make sense of awakening vs medication for myself. Understand how the two work together (Eckhart Tolle's teachings vs. the medical world, prescription drugs etc.).

I myself was gradually diagnosed with all kinds of disease (bipolar being one of them, then schizo affective bipolar or something). What started with a depression ended in four stays at hospital, heavy medication that made me lose control of my body, ending up in a wheelchair, losing all social life, almost losing my life. When I got out of hospital I was in the same state as where it begun: depressive.

I would never under estimate the seriousness of mental illness let alone try to talk anyone out of medication. Everyone has to find their way and there would be no awakening for me without all this suffering either! It is a miracle I am still alive .But my ego is dead , when it does try to creep in I am aware of it and gradually work on letting it go. This has been happening to me, without knowing what is happening until I discovered Eckhart Tolle and it finally made sense.

It at first felt too good to be true (what a relief!!!!!!!!) and it felt like someone could take it away from me. But I now know that no one can take away that shift in consciousness (except me by starting to identify with my ego again which I can not, there is no way I can or want go back to all that suffering). I am writing this to explain why I am not advocating for or against medication. I believe no psychiatrist will try to prescribe medication that makes you another person/ unaware of who you are. And as long as this is not the case, there is no reason why prescribed medication (whether mental illness or physical illness) should be incompatible with awakening. As said, no one can take that awareness away from you. The only difference is that being more aware of your body etc, you are more aware of the effect the medication has on your body and so you might want to change habits or use something healthier.

So that is what I think and how I have experienced it. Nothing like : I get off medication and suddenly feel almighty enlightened. The awakening started happening independently to all parts of my identity (Me as a depressive person, being one of them). Independent of the meds. The mental illness which lead to physical illness and loss of social status and constant fear and ''taking away years'' of my life etc.....that suffering lead me to awakening. My ego tortured me most of my life and I neither, ''could live with myself any longer'' as would say Eckhart Tolle. I needed to finally be able to be ME (let go of the self, the ego) . I talked about the trigger in another one of my posts.

What I am ultimately trying to say here though is that it's not so much about being healed from mental illness or physical illness right away after awakening....its about being healed from ego which brings about love, peace and joy that has no opposite and which has a positive aspect on all parts of life....one of them being illness :-). I was only asking the question about prescription drugs how you, in your life deal with it after awakening or after reading Eckhart Tolle. Since he says that mental illness is only a more developed form of ego. I do believe, after reading his books, that it's possible to gradually get of medication while becoming more and more aware but as mentioned earlier...seeing my own''story'', I'd be the last one to take it easily or underestimate the complexity of mental disease.

Again, thank you very much for sharing
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Ellen
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Re: Changes after awakening

Postby dijmart » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:15 pm

ellen_ wrote:I was really only asking in order to make sense of awakening vs medication for myself. Understand how the two work together (Eckhart Tolle's teachings vs. the medical world, prescription drugs etc.).


The medical world and medication are part of the relative world and are body/minds are part of that relative world too. So, I would say you have a choice here. You can take medicine and see a doctor.. or don't. But, the don't, would have to come with the awareness that by not doing those things your body may end sooner then later and/or your mind may not be at it's ultimate functioning if you have a mental illness. There's no right or wrong here, some people who aren't aware don't want to have medical treatment and that's their right and their decision. So, if you are awakened and want to take medication, then take it, if not, then don't. There is no wrong or right each just brings a different experience. That experience may then change your decision down the road or not.

Another words, I could go off my meds today...but if that brought an unfortunate experience I may decide that wasn't appropriate and go back on them or I could go my whole life taking them and sometimes wonder if I really needed to take them at all? But, in reality the best thing would be that each time my dose is lowered and I continue to be stable I could ask after a certain period of time for them to get lowered more and perhaps eventially not need them any longer. However, in my case with my health history I don't know if that would be possible. But it's all good, because thanks to the meds, tolle and other teachers I'm well, so who cares really?
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Re: Changes after awakening

Postby ellen_ » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:42 pm

dijmart wrote:But, in reality the best thing would be that each time my dose is lowered and I continue to be stable I could ask after a certain period of time for them to get lowered more and perhaps eventially not need them any longer. However, in my case with my health history I don't know if that would be possible. But it's all good, because thanks to the meds, tolle and other teachers I'm well, so who cares really?


Exactly. What you call ''stable'' is ''growing more and more aware'' for me. But in the end the most important thing is to be well, that's right :-).

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