Where are you on the map of consciousness?

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Where are you on the map of consciousness?

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:18 am

Image
Map of Consciousness, copyright Dr. David Hawkins


I thought it might be an interesting discussion if we can see where we are and where we've been in terms of Dr David Hawkins Map of Consciousness.

I know 'pre nde' (of which today is the 32nd anniversary - happy birthday baby and ee gads Jen you're still here?)
I was at a pretty fluid but low level of awareness - the 'light' experience is instant 'enlightenment' - emotion = ineffable - too great or extreme to be expressed or described in words. And then the straddling back in body is a pretty interesting adjustment in reconciling the 'levels'.

Just wondering if folks are aware, capable and willing to see where they might be, the differences in where they've been, and where they might be heading etc
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Re: Where are you on the map of consciousness?

Postby Webwanderer » Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:02 pm

Where am I on this scale? What time is it?

WW
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Re: Where are you on the map of consciousness?

Postby dijmart » Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:20 pm

smiileyjen101 wrote:I know 'pre nde' (of which today is the 32nd anniversary - happy birthday baby and ee gads Jen you're still here?)


Yes, Happy NDE Birthday Jen. I for one am glad you're still here! :D

Just wondering if folks are aware, capable and willing to see where they might be, the differences in where they've been, and where they might be heading etc


I don't know how helpful it would be for someone to assess the level they are at, I mean who is doing the assessing anyways? The ego I think. The ego will try to define the level and if it's low be bummed out, if it's high it might say how great it is, how close to the "end" it is, so on and so forth.

Plus, how does this guy know? and did he define it accurately or though his own ego?

If I had to give an answer I would say, I don't know. Insights come, are integrated and perhaps the levels shift rapidly upwards, then go back down a notch, then rise again, meet a plateau and the process continues. There's a shift that has happened, but sticky thoughts still happen also, but the gap between reaction and clarity is shortening and shortening too. There are lessons there each time, maybe this happens forever, maybe not, who knows?
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Re: Where are you on the map of consciousness?

Postby smiileyjen101 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:19 am

Webby said: Where am I on this scale? What time is it?

:D It's a bit like that isn't it!

DJ said: I for one am glad you're still here! :D

:D Thanks DJ, me too!!

DJ said: I don't know how helpful it would be for someone to assess the level they are at, I mean who is doing the assessing anyways? The ego I think. The ego will try to define the level and if it's low be bummed out, if it's high it might say how great it is, how close to the "end" it is, so on and so forth.

Yes I see that perspective.

I was 'spider-webbing' and fell on it. A friend of mine was reading one of his books and mentioned him a little while back. He did pretty thorough scientific 'testing' of energy - frequency 'stuff' in his work. I think I want to read his books now.

What it 'did for me' finding this - (spider-webbing) I was thinking about how straddling awareness has been misconstrued and led to misunderstandings over the years post nde. Recently I was somewhat disappointed - not resistant, just 'ackkkk!', that a quote of mine, collected for one 'purpose' embedded in awareness about the consciousness state in the light had been published in another article that 'appears' to give it a religious bent, and it's missed the mark --- by a long way. (sigh...)

Also in my spider-webbing musing about this - the key is our understanding of the capacity of consciousness - so I was musing about the discovery of Nu Complexes, and that the next letter in the Greek alphabet is Omega - Omega consciousness from things about it, seems to be close to the light awareness - where 'god' is Self and All-being.

I'm not so interested in the 'levels' (up to down) but I like how he 'illustrates' them - across >>>
that in the chart he lists
the 'god-view' - what or who is god to you.
and how that relates to the 'life view'
and then to the emotions
and I guess the 'power source - the intensity / frequency impact that it has in terms of process.

In looking at these differences I realised it was the basis of the misunderstanding in the article that I read quoting me. I view 'god' as me and everything, so if I use the term and someone else knows 'god' as ...whatever in that chart, then we could be skewing things completely.

Then I recalled when doctors were discussing the ethics of turning off life support for my son, a Priest who befriended me told the doctors that he didn't have a moral/ethical or concern for my psychological well-being with it because I (me) viewed 'god' as a 'Merciful' god... and my head snapped around then... I do? Well, yes I do in the sense that I don't think any of us are going to go to hell for it... but ... not really.

Sometimes it's easier to just let people make sense of things at the level that they're at, rather than rock the boat on semantics. But it's then not accurate to say that I do (actually) view God as 'that'.

This quote that's niggling at me is taking out of context that pre nde I had the 'vengeful', 'punitive' and even 'indifferent' as in how could 'god' let 'shit' happen perspective. And that is true, I did.

Post nde what I was trying to say I now knew - the 'me/all' perspective had no way of being understood or accepted, except in the awareness and capacity of those who were hearing what they thought I was saying. So people interpret at their level of awareness and cannot see beyond it - they can see 'below' it in terms of the chart, but cannot see 'above' it. And that's okay too, it just 'skews' stuff.

The 'aha moments' are when you do see something that was previously outside of your awareness, and then it's so obvious you wonder how you didn't see/know it all along.

It may also be a difference in understanding what Nanci Danison made a foot-note of in her book Backwards Returning to our Source for Answers, about there being humans without a soul.

E2B said: "Then when she states that every one of us is a 'light being' (extension of Source) that is taking on the role of Soul in the physical exploration via the human body (which is also a living organism), but later goes on to say in a quick footnote, that there are 'unoccupied humans', it was a bit confusing.
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=12701


In that topic, I and you Webby thought along the lines of possibly sociopath types. I also said unless there is some species that Nanci knows about that we have no understanding of or about (and now I need to go back to that topic... because I've just realised there 'might' be.)

It's like we, in awareness, are like sand in an egg timer - the sand in the bulbs type - we come from vast awareness and squeeze through a tight, narrow little perspective and grain by grain - experience by experience, thought by thought, flow out into the relatively vast space on the other side. When we're in the tight space in the one by one grains we don't know the vastness from where we've come and we cannot imagine rejoining all the other grains of sand on the other side.

The same can be said for understanding what is ego-driven, and what it is not. I agree an easier understanding is if one is making an enemy, obstacle or means to an end of a thing, person or situation. Or if one is in acceptance, enjoyment or enthusiasm, but it is 'more than that'. There is ego on the other side of the egg timer too, it doesn't get sifted out of us. We just have a wider, more comprehensive awareness of it.

Which then came full circle back to the notion that I am only responsible for what I say, not what another understands. (sigh...)

I'm still 'straddling', in awareness and in acceptance that there are these moving, shifting levels of consciousness, awareness and viewing..... grain by grain, moment by moment, finding more folks on the 'other side' of the narrows.

It's an interesting analogy this egg timer one. We come into 'life' through the confining narrows of the birth canal and unfold in more awareness on the other side of it. In an nde we go through the confining narrows of the 'tunnel' and unfold in more awareness on the other side of it. And while in life we go through the confining narrows of experiences and unfold in more awareness on the other side of them.

hmmm.... just musing.

...Maybe I need to change my tagline.... 'don't quote me, I'm just musing.' :wink:
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Re: Where are you on the map of consciousness?

Postby Onceler » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:58 am

Webwanderer wrote:Where am I on this scale? What time is it?

WW


:wink: perhaps your shortest post ever, Web, no less pithy, tho.

As for the scale.....I wouldn't even no where to start, none seem to fit me. Is there a category for unseemly curious? For sensing movement or motion where none seems to be? For a gradual intensification of life that is new and fresh, but also very old? Old joy. But also stubbornly maintaining dumbness and idiocy despite all of the change? Simultaneously.
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Re: Where are you on the map of consciousness?

Postby smiileyjen101 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:31 am

Onceler:

As for the scale.....I wouldn't even no where to start, none seem to fit me. Is there a category for unseemly curious? For sensing movement or motion where none seems to be? For a gradual intensification of life that is new and fresh, but also very old? Old joy. But also stubbornly maintaining dumbness and idiocy despite all of the change? Simultaneously.


I agree there should be a line just for 'Yum yum' :D

Could it be somewhere (in) the processes of 'abstraction' to 'illumination' not as in witholding or denying anything, but as in abstraction as the 'Opposite of concretisation'. Parameterization in a widening non-linear view. Finding widening parameters of things where they were not recognised as such before.


(gawd using the 'big, grown up words' makes me sound as if I know what this stuff 'means' :wink: )


...."spider-webbing" :idea: :D

Just for fun, see if the God view / Life View / Emotions / Processes above 'Transcendence' in the right hand column sit comfortably with you. (energetically not egoically) Remembering the wide 'swing capacity' of equilibrium of any of those states, benign means no harm/problem, that 'bliss' is not all roses, that Serenity is a powerful-peaceful force, and Reverence allows Irreverence with 'no blame' etc

Or, finish the sentence Life is ....
with just one of the words in the 'life view' list that most accurate resonates for you.
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Re: Where are you on the map of consciousness?

Postby KathleenBrugger » Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:00 pm

I think this is an interesting and useful chart, but it takes a little deciphering. I've spent quite a bit of time reading Ken Wilber, and he is fond of creating graphics like this so I've gotten used to interpreting them. I find elements on almost all levels that describe me and my actions, but for the maximum level attained, I'd probably say 500-540. In "The Atman Project" Wilber has various levels; the one that approximately matches the 500 range is what he calls "centaur" because you're expanding past the human ego stage. Another thing that Ken Wilber talks a lot about is transcend and integrate. As you move up the levels in his system, you transcend the earlier ones but, and this is really important, you integrate them into the new higher level. You don't leave them behind. That's why it can be confusing looking at a chart like this because the lower levels are very familiar to most of us.

Perhaps another thing that is confusing to some people is what the different columns mean. I think if the chart was accompanied by a brief explanation of what the six categories mean, that would help. Here's my attempt to understand them:

1. The way you perceive God
2. The way you perceive life
3. Level? What does he mean by that? From the words listed it seems like he means your main attitude towards life
4. Log - this is clearly his counting system
5. Emotion - since all of us have many different emotions in any given day, this must mean some kind of defining emotion.
6. Process - perhaps your dominant method of dealing with life.

Interesting though. And thanks for sharing. Another interesting person/idea to learn about! And belated happy NDE anniversary. :D
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Re: Where are you on the map of consciousness?

Postby smiileyjen101 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:32 am

Katie said: As you move up the levels in his system, you transcend the earlier ones but, and this is really important, you integrate them into the new higher level. You don't leave them behind. That's why it can be confusing looking at a chart like this because the lower levels are very familiar to most of us.

I'd agree with this - and yet at some 'point' in awareness, one might quickly realise when your energy is vibrating at a lower than 'optimum' level. (to the degree of your current awareness, capacity)

Then you're likely to notice it and 'shift' back, or out of it more quickly than you might have when it was your optimum awareness level.

So, for example, if your 'optimum' is 540 ish, then Serenity is something you know you can 'achieve', a state that you know you can find and rest in. If then something throws you into say --- 'Anxiety' - where this once might have been an all controlling emotion - based on a 'fixed idea' that 'God' is Punitive, and Life is Frightening, because you've already worked through the levels of awareness from Fear up, you don't have to go through that all experientially again, you can just 'regain' your Serenity.

Whereas earlier one may have had to spend time experiencing the other states in order to understand and transcend them.

Karmarider for instance speaks of 'Fear' as being felt by many as an underlying sense of life. By reading Conversations With God and getting a different 'understanding' in terms of God View, it has changed his Life View somewhat.

The way we are 'instructed' about God then, impacts on how we view Life, and the emotions that respond to that world view.

For me it very much speaks to 'awareness, capacity and willingness' at differing levels.

With this chart one could see the relationship between the God View and the Life View 'settling' in that group of emotions around that level and being worked through in the Processes. I agree that the emotions and the views below them are in your kit bag, having been experienced to some degree, and we may revisit them, working out nuances of them.

I like that he knows that truth resonates - I just do.

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Re: Where are you on the map of consciousness?

Postby KathleenBrugger » Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:15 am

smiileyjen101 wrote: at some 'point' in awareness, one might quickly realise when your energy is vibrating at a lower than 'optimum' level. (to the degree of your current awareness, capacity)

Then you're likely to notice it and 'shift' back, or out of it more quickly than you might have when it was your optimum awareness level.

So, for example, if your 'optimum' is 540 ish, then Serenity is something you know you can 'achieve', a state that you know you can find and rest in. If then something throws you into say --- 'Anxiety' - where this once might have been an all controlling emotion - based on a 'fixed idea' that 'God' is Punitive, and Life is Frightening, because you've already worked through the levels of awareness from Fear up, you don't have to go through that all experientially again, you can just 'regain' your Serenity.

Whereas earlier one may have had to spend time experiencing the other states in order to understand and transcend them.

Yes. This is how a chart like this can help; by graphing it out like this it's easier to have this kind of conversation about the effect of transient emotions. :D
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Re: Where are you on the map of consciousness?

Postby smiileyjen101 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:29 am

KB said:
Yes. This is how a chart like this can help; by graphing it out like this it's easier to have this kind of conversation about the effect of transient emotions. :D

:D :D :D :D
It's how we can stop 'judging' our self and others, for absolutely that which is 'transient' even when we're 'stuck' in them.

It's how we can accept the hero in the villain, the villain in the hero; the fool in the wise person, and the wise person in the fool; the seriously funny & hilariously serious in our experiences.

In the 'end' we reach the equilibrium of all of them, which is the 'combined influence' of all of them at different levels of intensity feeding into .... experience.

Breathe out with an exhausted, sated, sigh :D

We got here Katie :D

Self > Is > Enlightenment > Ineffable > Pure Consciousness
All Being > Perfect > Peace > Bliss > Illumination
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Re: Where are you on the map of consciousness?

Postby KathleenBrugger » Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:37 am

smiileyjen101 wrote:
KB said:
Yes. This is how a chart like this can help; by graphing it out like this it's easier to have this kind of conversation about the effect of transient emotions. :D

:D :D :D :D
It's how we can stop 'judging' our self and others, for absolutely that which is 'transient' even when we're 'stuck' in them.

It's how we can accept the hero in the villain, the villain in the hero; the fool in the wise person, and the wise person in the fool; the seriously funny & hilariously serious in our experiences.

In the 'end' we reach the equilibrium of all of them, which is the 'combined influence' of all of them at different levels of intensity feeding into .... experience.

Breathe out with an exhausted, sated, sigh :D

We got here Katie :D

Self > Is > Enlightenment > Ineffable > Pure Consciousness
All Being > Perfect > Peace > Bliss > Illumination

This is lovely as usual jen. And perhaps another way these charts are useful is to give us a sense of the path ahead...I may be here, but I'm sure not to bliss or the ineffable yet! :D I've got glimpses of perfection, but perhaps the problem is that so far those glimpses are just intellectual.
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Re: Where are you on the map of consciousness?

Postby smiileyjen101 » Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:35 am

What was it, if not 'bliss' (gratitude & generosity collapsed in equilibrium) when you felt and shared
This is lovely as usual jen


That 'sigh' of love, perfection.

Sure we can't intellectualise it and as soon as we try we reach for more 'solid' more 'definable' feelings, thoughts and so our awareness shifts away from it. But its not that you weren't ever there - we're always there underneath the thoughts and physical emotions.

The 'layering' of which go more like this across multiple layers of awareness feeding in >>>>
perhaps another way these charts are useful is to give us a sense of the path ahead...I may be here, but I'm sure not to bliss or the ineffable yet! :D I've got glimpses of perfection, but perhaps the problem is that so far those glimpses are just intellectual.


Is this awareness on the layer of 'wise' - 'meaningful' 'reason' 'understanding' 'abstraction'?

You could have just as well fallen to 'permitting' 'feasible' 'courage' 'affirmation' 'empowerment', or equally to
'condemning', 'hopeless' 'apathy' 'despair' 'adbication'

....but, you didn't. In this moment you didn't. It doesn't mean that you, or I, won't, it is only that you didn't in this moment.

And underneath all of them, all of those states of awareness there is always in it's pure essence, what is, ineffably, as it is.


ahhh....sigh ...undisturbed .... :D
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Re: Where are you on the map of consciousness?

Postby ZenCowgirl » Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:13 pm

I just had occasion to read his book in which this chart appears. I read all but the final chapter. I loved the introduction: thought it was the best ever description of the transition. Then I found myself almost repelled (sent back, away from) the middle chapters. Why? The introduction came from inside his ... experience of being shaken loose of his prior beliefs. A beautiful story -- and one that made me anticipate I'd be getting a lot out of what was to follow.

Maybe my expectations were too high, but I found the middle to be ceaselessly general in descriptions of this and that and obsessively "objective" (as if there is such a thing). I kept wondering: how did he get these numbers, this scale--who measures? Is dear Maat his silent partner - or what? Plus, to put it out there that some expert or some wise guy or some chart can tell you where you stand seems to me to objectify and "glom" on one more layer of duality-illusion to ... being.

Being has no marks etched on its ruler.

As I say, however, I skipped the final chapter: maybe some secrets were released there. :D

PS: Hi, Smiley!
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Re: Where are you on the map of consciousness?

Postby smiileyjen101 » Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:24 am

PS: Hi, Smiley!

Hi Zengirl :D What a delight to see you here :D

May I 'pick your brain' please?

Being has no marks etched on its ruler.

I have no idea what the 'secret' in the final chapter might hold - but this... just might be it :D

I'd like, if you are willing and can forgive me 'objectifying' it, to explore the nuances of these two 'comparisons' and responses from/in you in and about the content.

1st response on 'experiencing the content' -----
Zengirl said: I loved the introduction: thought it was the best ever description of the transition.
...Why? The introduction came from inside his ... experience of being shaken loose of his prior beliefs. A beautiful story --


( Jen note: I want for the moment to separate this part 'out' - as it's signalling stepping out of the 'present' moment...wherein all 'expectations' can only occur. We may come 'back to it' so I don't want to 'lose it', but for the moment I'd like to concentrate on the 'differences between what is above - and what I'll post in another 'separate' quote)

Zengirl said: "and one that made me anticipate I'd be getting a lot out of what was to follow."



2nd response on 'experiencing the content'

Zengirl said:

(a) I found the middle to be ceaselessly general in descriptions of this and that and obsessively "objective" (as if there is such a thing).

(b) I kept wondering: how did he get these numbers, this scale--who measures?

(c) Is dear Maat his silent partner - or what?

(d) Plus, to put it out there that some expert or some wise guy or some chart can tell you where you stand seems to me to objectify and "glom" on one more layer of duality-illusion to ... being.


And now, having 'done that' 'objectifying', I realise dear Zengirl I may have 'done' exactly what frustrated you about his 'content' :oops: :wink: :roll: .... will you bear with me, I'm furthering my understanding of 'sender' - 'receiver' communications?

Would it be fair & accurate to say that the introduction 'resonated' at whatever 'frequency of consciousness' you were at - it met 'like energy' and could be absorbed without question? Would that be fair to say?

Would it also be fair & accurate to say then, that the middle - the 'rationalising' and 'objectifying was 'below' (rather than above) your energy - consciousness frequency....
but then that (as energy/consciousness is accepted by you to be 'fluid') 'lower level' energy 'annoyances' 'distractions' filtered into your experience?

(...and truly, I'm not saying that any of these are or were your experience, ... I am asking for your perspective to increase my understanding of your experience - so the responses might be ...not at all this... as much as they might be ... a little like this... or ... maybe this.. or exactly this.)

I wonder because there was a similar 'irk' in 'process' about another speaker-writer recently wherein she would 'pitch' her responses at the consciousness level of the asker of a question, and then others in the audience felt 'irk' that her espousings were not 'pitched' at their 'higher' level of awareness - in essence as she held energy at a lower level of fear, some were questioning -- where is the love?

If you can hold awareness for the individual perspectives of 'personal transition' then the 'mechanics' of it that might need to be 'explained' to one who has no awareness of it at all, might be 'annoying' or even unable to be understood why one is letting that 'stuff' get in the way of a 'good story'.

Could it be this?

Can you offer any 'insight' - and I'm happy to have you tell the story, or provide 'objective' perspectives :D

I think this 'idea' :idea: you have that there are no 'marks on the ruler' and my :idea: that the 'stages' are not static or indeed in any sense permanent, might be building 'something' in co-creation with whoever this guy 'was' :idea:

Fair comment?
(I've tried to find his book in book stores, but may have to go online for it now.)

Also, he appears to teach recognition of truth energy ... was that in the book you read?
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Re: Where are you on the map of consciousness?

Postby ZenCowgirl » Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:52 am

Would it be fair & accurate to say that the introduction 'resonated' at whatever 'frequency of consciousness' you were at - it met 'like energy' and could be absorbed without question? Would that be fair to say?

U bet. and it was a story. I like ... story.
Would it also be fair & accurate to say then, that the middle - the 'rationalising' and 'objectifying was 'below' (rather than above) your energy - consciousness frequency.... but then that (as energy/consciousness is accepted by you to be 'fluid') 'lower level' energy 'annoyances' 'distractions' filtered into your experience?

Well ... I don't want to be so presumptuous as to say that. Also it presumes a "scale" somewhere which is the very thing I am resisting.
His book certainly sold a bunch of copies and I saw from looking through Google reviews that he has a lot of followers. I had never heard of him before, so maybe I felt that was strange - either something off with me or something off with him. That might have distanced me. People reported that he changed their lives, so who am I to judge him.
I guess in the final analysis I was just reporting that his book didn't "do it" for me - and really that says more about me than about him. I see now that I really was just wanting to say "Hi, Jen," but rather than doing that I selected to try to say something interesting but it really was not that interesting. It was just a, "The book didn't do it for me" type of comment. And an "I don't like scales" report. That is NOT really a critique of the book - it is just a judgment.
More and more the message is: DO NOT JUDGE. DO NOT TRY TO BE SMART.

As I recall, btw, the opening story was a nde story - very beautifully told and with LIGHTENING effects!
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