Tolle, or Eastern approaches vs. Christianity

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Re: Tolle, or Eastern approaches vs. Christianity

Postby Webwanderer » Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:07 am

DavidB wrote:
joe wrote:
lmp wrote:To live connected to God means to surrender oneself completely.


Indeed. Which means that one has no identity.

Disagree. God, Source, The Infinite, Whatever, is not exclusive but fully inclusive. Self awareness has value and is Loved unconditionally - and is therefore preserved - even in surrender - an act of unconditional love.

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Re: Tolle, or Eastern approaches vs. Christianity

Postby aquarius123esoteric » Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:34 pm

Extract from 'The Purpose Of Individuality'

Earth life is a necessary requirement of all human spirits and souls’ educational program. To help you become aware that each one of you is an individual being, every lifetime in physicality provides you with a new physical body of your own. Every one of them is another step forwards on your journey into discovering your individuality. The downside of this is that with the passing of time this has created the illusion that you are separate and detached from each other and from the rest of life, when nothing could be further from the truth. Underneath – that is on the inner level – you always remained one with each other and also with Me. Therefore, the impression of separateness exists on the Earth plane only and yet another one of your false convictions can be shed.

As young Gods in the making, because of life’s oneness on the inner level, growth by any one of you can only be achieved through constant interaction with the rest of life. The Cosmic law of evolution decrees that no individual soul shall grow and evolve in isolation, and that every part of life forever shall depend upon all others for its survival and wellbeing, or otherwise. Although superficially you may like to think of yourself as an independent being, you are still reliant upon millions of others on the highest and lowest levels of life, who are constantly influencing you in everything you say and do. Evolution’s ultimate purpose is to bring all aspects of life into co-operation by harmonising and co-ordinating them in one gigantic expression of Universal love.

For all of you there eventually comes the moment when your small earthly self is ready to surrender itself to Me, your Highest or Christ Self. Let no-one run away with the idea that this means sinking into a vast ocean of spirit and dissolving into nothingness. If anything, quite the opposite is true. Your individuality will never be absorbed into anything, but before it can freely and willingly be submitted to Me, it has to expand and grow. This continues until finally, instead of merely being a small earthly creature, you will be like Me, one who is consciously aware once again of their oneness with all life and Me. You will always be you and you will never fade into nothingness, and you will constantly move upwards and onwards in keeping with the evolutionary cycles of life until you have reached the awareness and consciousness of the Great Whole, known to you as God – Me.

‘The Universal Christ Speaks To Us And Our World’

* * *
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Re: Tolle, or Eastern approaches vs. Christianity

Postby DavidB » Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:52 am

Webwanderer wrote:God, Source, The Infinite, Whatever, is not exclusive but fully inclusive. Self awareness has value and is Loved unconditionally - and is therefore preserved - even in surrender - an act of unconditional love.


Maybe we interpret 'complete' differently?

I was coming from the perspective of no-thingness, no-self. I understand the perspective you're coming from. Neither are wrong and neither are right, both are equally valid. Everything and Nothing are one, not two after all. :)
Last edited by DavidB on Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tolle, or Eastern approaches vs. Christianity

Postby Enlightened2B » Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:33 am

aquarius123esoteric wrote:Extract from 'The Purpose Of Individuality'

Earth life is a necessary requirement of all human spirits and souls’ educational program. To help you become aware that each one of you is an individual being, every lifetime in physicality provides you with a new physical body of your own. Every one of them is another step forwards on your journey into discovering your individuality. The downside of this is that with the passing of time this has created the illusion that you are separate and detached from each other and from the rest of life, when nothing could be further from the truth. Underneath – that is on the inner level – you always remained one with each other and also with Me. Therefore, the impression of separateness exists on the Earth plane only and yet another one of your false convictions can be shed.

As young Gods in the making, because of life’s oneness on the inner level, growth by any one of you can only be achieved through constant interaction with the rest of life. The Cosmic law of evolution decrees that no individual soul shall grow and evolve in isolation, and that every part of life forever shall depend upon all others for its survival and wellbeing, or otherwise. Although superficially you may like to think of yourself as an independent being, you are still reliant upon millions of others on the highest and lowest levels of life, who are constantly influencing you in everything you say and do. Evolution’s ultimate purpose is to bring all aspects of life into co-operation by harmonising and co-ordinating them in one gigantic expression of Universal love.

For all of you there eventually comes the moment when your small earthly self is ready to surrender itself to Me, your Highest or Christ Self. Let no-one run away with the idea that this means sinking into a vast ocean of spirit and dissolving into nothingness. If anything, quite the opposite is true. Your individuality will never be absorbed into anything, but before it can freely and willingly be submitted to Me, it has to expand and grow. This continues until finally, instead of merely being a small earthly creature, you will be like Me, one who is consciously aware once again of their oneness with all life and Me. You will always be you and you will never fade into nothingness, and you will constantly move upwards and onwards in keeping with the evolutionary cycles of life until you have reached the awareness and consciousness of the Great Whole, known to you as God – Me.

‘The Universal Christ Speaks To Us And Our World’

* * *


I like certain parts of what you wrote. However, I really no longer jive with the "educational program" or "Earth is a classroom" mentality or we have to achieve this, this and this to finally become One with God. I feel as though all of these perspectives and philosophies are not only dis-empowering, but also create more separation and do not promote self love and leave us most of all with a feeling of "lack". I don't think we are here to learn anything or to grow, contrary to the popular new age belief that is often promoted in Edgar Cayce's teachings. Yes, I think expansion is happening on an infinite level since we are infinite beings. However.....

I have a different perspective on why we are here and it aligns very much so with this blog piece I found from Julia Assante who is a spiritual medium which I will post below. I think we're creators and there is nothing to learn and we simply come here to explore and create based on a desire that we so choose.

I've been gaining an incredible amount of insight from Abraham Hicks of late, and I think we're all confused and mis-understand why we are here. I've been questioning a lot in my life as my health has taken a tough road lately and it's really made me reach deep within and call out for help in wondering what all of this means. Maybe you have some insight of your own into that. Yet, I feel that it is simply in our nature to create and create and create infinitely. And everything on this physical plane is simply based in contrast where contrast is the platform of palate to create our art work through vibration.

All of these fear based notions of having to work our way back to God are just that.....fear based human interpretations if you ask me. The work of people like Bruce Lipton have inspired me greatly into realizing that we create our own realities and continue to do so even in our own bodies. It's remarkable and exciting for me.

Check out this article and let me know whatcha think.

http://www.juliaassante.com/are-physical-dimensions-training-grounds-or-experiments-in-creativity/

Here's one of the comments on the blog which I highly resonated with and really wanted to share:

I believe the training ground idea, so often used to support the notion of the of the need for the soul to develop and somehow become more than it is already, is quite erroneous. Like various types of teaching on the idea of karma, it emerges from the old paradigm that time is happening linearly. The ideas of balancing karma/ energy and developing the soul become increasingly difficult to integrate when it is accepted that all time is actually happening in the moment of now.

Another version of that idea is that since our lives are all happening at once, we may be negatively affected by the way other of those lives are unfolding. I would go no further than to say we should only choose to access information from those other lives if we see it as helpful to expand and enhance our current life. Why connect and contend with negative energies? Simply intend that nothing that is not for your highest good shall enter your domain and it will be so. The interesting thing about any idea that promotes the idea of incompleteness/separation/ less than, is that you can have experiences that reflect these ideas back to you by believing them to be true, both here and in the non-physical. If you believe you need to return to earth to work off karma, you are free to come back and do so. I would even go so far as to say your appointed guides may be of a similar view. It goes to the notion that all experiences chosen are valid from the point of view of “All that is”. Your own truth is respected and reflected. (I should copy write that one!) They are all just stories and we get to experience the ones we attach to.

My understanding is that ‘All that is’ is choosing to experience the eternal now moment through as many perspectives and experiences as possible. One of which is by allowing individualised expressions of itself (us) to temporarily, with our consent, experience ourselves as separate and apart from ‘All that is’. When we cross back over we quickly remember who we are in essence, collectively and individually. We ARE the one. The all that is. Even so, the story we have just vacated may still be something we wish to continue exploring. We may choose to continue exploring the story on the other side by recreating earth like scenarios and collective social settings to further work through the life theme recently vacated. We may also do this to create continuity for those who soon arrive from the earth plane and need support to re-assimilate. Or we may quickly allow the story to dissolve and pursue a new type of experience altogether. Further still, we may choose to remerge with the loving, blissful consciousness at the centre of all that is and forgo the experience of exploring thought altogether for a time.

The ‘story’ that we have created for ourselves in this human life is a version of reality that is individual to ourselves, even though it is played out through a collective agreement involving countless others. I believe the non-physical is also in essence just another type of story we each continue on with. We are each multidimensional, and that has huge implications for how we interact with each other in the playing out of the infinite numbers of stories that are always happening in the now moment. In our individual stories (linear human lives now) we meet up with various versions of others that essentially reflect the experiences we have chosen to explore back to us. In that sense our story is completely about us, as theirs is completely about them because we serve the same function for them. The others in our lives do of course exist but in our stories we are are interacting with multidimensional versions of them that best dovetail with our own unfolding story. I would put forward that it’s not only the earth experience that can be considered a dream. The afterlife is made of the same stuff. Whether we are incarnate or not, the experiences and stories continue whilst ever we wish them to because they, like the ” All that is” are both infinite and infinitely available to explore.

To summarise, At our very core I believe we are already complete and perfect in every sense. There is nothing to learn because all is already available to be remembered. Every thing that ever will exist already exists within us. To the degree that we attach to our stories we minimise the full experience of who we really are, both here and when not incarnate. Finally, every thing is unfolding perfectly. Exactly as All that is intends. This is a hard saying for those of us, myself included, who have suffered much in various ways through out our lives. All I would say to that is- change what you can to your own favour and seek diligently for help when you need it, but beyond that, know that at a much higher level of your multidimensional self, you have planned your life to unfold exactly as it does. Soon enough you will find your way home.
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Re: Tolle, or Eastern approaches vs. Christianity

Postby Fore » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:29 pm

Hi e2b hope you are feeling better, I don't feel people are promoting the idea of achieving this this or this to realize God, it's more of a letting go of this this and this. Realizing how this creation comes into existence, seeing it's fleeting nature and how identifying with it is suffering. Through this direct experience a letting go can begin and the clarity of God shines through.
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Re: Tolle, or Eastern approaches vs. Christianity

Postby aquarius123esoteric » Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:12 pm

I couldn't agree more. It's a letting go of the drives and urges of lower earthly nature and instead bringing forth the highest and best that is within us, our very own Christ nature - being true to our real nature. It goes without saying, but I'll say it nonetheless, we all have a different approach to and understanding of these things. In my view, one is as right as the other. Everything depends on the evolutionary level we have reached at any given moment.

With love - Aquarius
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Re: Tolle, or Eastern approaches vs. Christianity

Postby Enlightened2B » Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:24 pm

Thank you Fore for the well wishes. I was more referencing the new age community in general. As I've been a part of many face book groups which I have now left which cling very strongly to very fear based notions of karma and reincarnation and most of all, purpose of physical incarnation, both ideas that I have vastly changed my perspective on over the last several months.

I couldn't agree more. It's a letting go of the drives and urges of lower earthly nature and instead bringing forth the highest and best that is within us, our very own Christ nature - being true to our real nature. It goes without saying, but I'll say it nonetheless, we all have a different approach to and understanding of these things. In my view, one is as right as the other. Everything depends on the evolutionary level we have reached at any given moment.


Again, I would only suggest that this is a limited belief that Earth represents some lowly area that we have to transcend and reinforced in many philosophies and religions. Or perhaps you are saying the same thing, but in different words. I choose to view it as a process of unraveling of beliefs about who we THINK we are, a as a process of unbecoming all we believe into seeing what we are, were all along, and only CAN be, which is perfection and Love and we've never been anything other than that, other than through our belief systems which have made us believe otherwise. Ironically enough, you are never BECOMING anything more than you already are. You are actually UNbecoming all that you believe you are. That's why the notion of spiritual advancement is non-sensical. We are here as creators and the belief systems we take on, in the process of contrast are well known in advance as they are the tools we use to paint with.

But, even so, there is no evolutionary status (in a hierarchical way). Instead, All That Is is always expanding infinitely, and we, as creators are part of that expansion. Expansion is why we are here I would suggest. You expand when align with your nature as Joy and you create from there.

The points in the article represented above from Julia Assante, are the points I very much agree with and no reason for me to delve further into it. Here's another article that I highly resonate with.

Thanks folks.

https://spiritguidesparrow.wordpress.com/2014/11/01/spiritual-development/
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Re: Tolle, or Eastern approaches vs. Christianity

Postby aquarius123esoteric » Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:38 pm

Thank you for sharing your insights and observations into this theme. The way I understand it as follows:

All Life Is Evolution

I believe that God’s great plan of life is evolution and the purpose of every aspect of life is that it should at all times expand in size and consciousness. This is how over long periods of time – in earthly terms – everything becomes ever more beautiful and sophisticated. Naturally, this also applies to our race. For this purpose all human spirits and their souls, without exception, have to spend many lifetimes on the Earth plane. Each one of us can only evolve through their own experiences of studying and exploring their own nature, each other’s and that of our world, which has been given to us for this purpose. Through this process our individual and collective consciousness slowly expands and our souls grow in wisdom and understanding.

This is how life is constantly moving forwards and upwards on the evolutionary spiral. Its intention is to gradually take us – each on their own and all together – into experiencing ever higher levels of existence. And each time one of us learns something and through this grows and evolves, not only our whole world does the same, but also the whole of Creation. God is life and life is God, and life will forever be humankind’s teacher. At any given time our daily lives provide all of us with sufficient opportunities for gathering ever more knowledge about ourselves and our world. In this natural process each one of us eventually develops into an enlightened being, i.e. one who is fully and consciously aware of God’s true nature and their own.

We are the pioneers of a New Age and in this capacity many experiences are waiting for us that have never been tried before on the material plane of life. One of them is androgyny. Although this is a state we never lost on the inner spiritual levels of life, on the outer it presents us with totally new experiences and challenges of quite a different kind. One of the most important features of us and our world is that we all contain many puzzling dualities and polarities, and that our world is one of paradoxes. For example, we all contain feminine and masculine energies. This is because as sparks of the Divine everything that is in God is also in us. Therefore, each one of us is woman and man at the same time. Although for a very long time we have looked towards others to make us whole, it is now coming clear that each one of us is already complete within themselves. The recognition of this is the first vital step that takes us back into the wholeness we once possessed.

The perfection we have been placed on the Earth plane to seek in truth means wholeness, i.e. the integration of all the qualities and characteristics that are in our Creator Father/Mother into our own. As above, so below. Created in the image of God, the earthly microcosm is a reflection and a manifestation of the macrocosm. By bringing the Divine qualities forth from deep within ourselves we become whole and holy as well as healed. Entering into this state is every soul’s final goal and destiny. Our first requirement in this process is taking possession of our other part, the inner man in woman and the inner woman in man. When that has finally been achieved, we shall once again be like the Angels and God in whom the feminine and masculine energies are in perfect balance and harmony with each other.

Like God and the Angels, we too are first and foremost spirit. The only difference between them and us is that we are temporarily encased in matter. Thus on the one hand, we belong to the world of matter and on the other one we are part of their world of spirit and light. For as long as we remain clothed in our physical bodies we belong to the Earth plane. This however is only half the story, and by far the most vital part of us is our spirit and soul and our true home is the world of spirit. Each time we leave one of our earthly garments behind, we return to this world to rest and recover from the stresses and strains of going to school on planet Earth. Through its lessons the earthly self’s character qualities begin to develop. The more it learns the further it evolves and its consciousness expands.

Whenever our spirit and soul return to the world of spirit, we – together with the wise ones in charge of us – assess the progress we have made, not only during the lifetime just completed, but all of them. The soul acts like a memory bank of all the learning our earthly personality ever gathers, throughout the long course of its evolution. Programmed into every soul is a deep and powerful longing and craving for peace and love that harks back to its oldest memories of the times – bear in mind that time does not exist on the spiritual level of life – when it still lived in a constant state of peace and was at one with God.

The memory of this condition has always remained alive in every soul’s consciousness and also in that of the soul of our whole world. It is that which in the end guides each one of us back into that same peaceful union. Although after many lifetimes on the Earth the small earthly self has long forgotten about this, no soul ever does. It is well aware that all life, including every God’s human children of the Earth, has come from love and is destined to return to it, as soon as it has become sufficiently evolved and its vibrations have become refined enough to be able to do so.

The earthly self is extremely fearful of the future and the unknown. That is why, for as long as it fails to comprehend the true reason for its being on this plane of life, it shies away from and struggles mightily against any messages its unfortunate and suffering soul is constantly trying to give it. Somehow the personality knows that it needs to move forward into life, but it has even forgotten why it is behaving this way, namely so that it may grow through the learning it gathers from all its experiences. The soul’s task consists of guiding its earthly personality safely back into the full consciousness of its true nature and home, into the memory of what it once really was, namely love. As the soul knows nothing of this world and does not understand it, it suffers mightily – and that in turn helps it to grow. Wanting to put an end to all its suffering, it is trying to gain the attention of its earthly self by tugging away at it and making every effort to get its attention.

Recommended Viewing:
• ‘Evolution Is The Purpose Of Life’
https://youtu.be/yBi3nc34QWE
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Re: Tolle, or Eastern approaches vs. Christianity

Postby Enlightened2B » Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:35 pm

Naturally, this also applies to our race. For this purpose all human spirits and their souls, without exception, have to spend many lifetimes on the Earth plane. Each one of us can only evolve through their own experiences of studying and exploring their own nature, each other’s and that of our world, which has been given to us for this purpose.


We can just agree to disagree :D

I'm sure you're far from alone with this way of thinking. The way I see it is that everything is imagination. Meaning, you are free to believe whatever you would like to believe because all potential is possible within the infinite mind of imagination.

Just as a child creates games in her mind, if she gets bored of a game, there is always an infinite chance to create another game, because imagination is infinite in what you can think up as is creation. So, if you'd like to believe in a certain philosophy, you have the free will to do so, since any belief is valid in the greater sense. Oddly enough, if you'd like to believe in a fear based notion of karma and reincarnation or that you have to complete some cycle against your will, that reality might very well be true for you, not only here on this physical plane, but even when your consciousness withdraws from this body at death......OR maybe at death, you'll realize that, you were just playing another game with yourself :)

I feel like that's what us humans love to do. We complicate the whole spirituality process because ironically enough, our egos cannot accept how simplistic life really is and Abraham Hicks really go into this.

Instead, we LOVE to create these vast scenarios of not only reward and punishment, but we cling to the STORIES of why we are here and yet, they are all just stories. Ideas of enlighnment when we already ARE enlightened Beings because we can't understand the truth of why we are here, which is because we just WANT to be here out of the pure joy of expansion. Enlightenment is our nature other than this blip on the radar of a human life where we create stories and beliefs that we are something OTHER than enlightenment and we have to work our way towards some non existent goal of enlightenment. But, even that is a PERFECTLY valid option or belief if you would like to make that belief a reality. Yet, I find one of the larger hindrances to people's lives in the spiritual community is a lack of self love and a belief in lack and often these beliefs are re-enforced by fear based belief systems that get thrown around the spiritual community including this very idea that we have to attain some goal of evolution or enlightenment. It's all missing the mark greatly in the greater sense because you ARE already perfect and whole and complete and Blissful and Love is already your nature. But, again you are free to believe otherwise......

If you notice something about near death experiences, many of them vary greatly. Why is that? It's because the individual mind still takes with it, its human interpretation and experience into the afterlife. Some of the more profound NDE's are the ones that have (in my estimation) the least amount of human interpretation/bias. Any experience, channeler, medium or whatever that claims we HAVE to do anything including a cycle of reincarnation is already putting their own human bias on top of it and people don't realize they are doing this. They replace religion with more beliefs but, in a 'spiritual context".

Spirituality is about empowering to realize that WE control our reality by the vibrations we put out there and we are the creators of our reality because we ARE God. There is no God in the sky separate from us, forcing us to go through a cycle of reincarnation against our will, forcing us to come back to the same place of incarnation over and over again to get things "right" when Earth is merely a speck on the scope of potential incarnation. Reincarnation does not only happen on Earth. There is a vast multi-verse to incarnate into for the opportunities of exploration.

Examining our beliefs are a huge step into aligning with what we truly want.
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Re: Tolle, or Eastern approaches vs. Christianity

Postby aquarius123esoteric » Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:11 pm

Yes, dear Friend, let's agree to disagree.Shake hands and remain friends. :-)
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Re: Tolle, or Eastern approaches vs. Christianity

Postby meetjoeblack » Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:32 am

joe wrote:Hi everybody. I figured I wouldn't get a useful or objective response if I posted this question on a Christian site, as most Christians seem to not really understand Eastern religion/spirituality. I was raised, like most of us, in a Christian culture and that is the organized religion I am most comfortable with. However, for a long time I have wondered as to why there is narrative involved, I've been bothered by it as a "belief system" and something that seems mind-made, and it doesn't resonate for me the way Eastern spirituality (which also includes Tolle) does. I don't understand the need for a belief system when it seems the real stuff is the stuff I can directly experience. Learning about Buddhism for example, has made me wonder about the whole Father and Son story and why we have all these personages in Christianity. Why is there a story you have to believe in? Why does one need to pray to someone out there? This implies an individual that hears you as opposed to meditation which is about connecting to the ground of being in life/reality in general. Can anyone speak to this? I know I'm not articulating this well.


Once people turn away from one source, they tend to create a new one, and its a constant search until something else takes. I think people in general lose sight of the meaning. Much of most religion is allegory. I really like Tolle, then again, I recall his speech on materialism then, watched him answer his brand new iphone on a yahoo interview. There are many sign posts. A famous quote, "the finger pointing to the moon isn't the moon." It be like mistaking the scent of the steak for being the steak. Once ego gets involved, a lot of things go south. I don't think its an either or and or versus. Much of religion has a lot of similarities and are interconnected. In a lot of ways, much of the stories are the sameone retold again ans again. ,
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