Releasing Control

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Releasing Control

Postby erict » Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:38 pm

I'm sort of stuck on the subject of control.

Jed McKenna and Adyashanti talk about releasing control and that strongly resonates with me. But I don't really understand how it works. Although the ego is clearly dysfunctional, it is still essential and cannot be discarded altogether. Where do you draw the line? Between healthy and unhealthy egoic motivations? That doesn't seem right. It's so very subjective. It's an egoic judgment call once again. I just can't grasp what releasing control would look like.

How do you choose and decide from that place? It sort of implies that you don't? But there are always choices and decisions. Every day, every hour, every moment.
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Re: Releasing Control

Postby Joshua » Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:11 am

Hi. I`m new here, but I will give your question a go.

The question of control seems to me to be related to the perplexing phenomenon of choice that we humans seem to have. It has always puzzled me, and I don`t think it is possible to understand with the mind. But here is my take on it.

Witnessing is the release of control. As you witness your thoughts, as you witness your choices, your day to day actions, you are letting go of them. Witness yourself taking control, and witness yourself releasing control. Your ego will eventually lose it`s grip. Don`t worry, you don`t need any of it. Your life will become one spontaneous action after another.

Witnessing is not a choice. It arises spontaneously. You did not choose to be born. That happened spontaneously. Life happens spontaneously. Witnessing is the same.
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Re: Releasing Control

Postby Onceler » Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:09 pm

Inquiry methods such as Byron Katie have allowed me to focus the witnessing experience you talk about, Joshua, into a more active process.

I feel "spiritual" when witnessing. With inquiry I found I am a fool.
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Re: Releasing Control

Postby Webwanderer » Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:09 pm

Onceler wrote: I feel "spiritual" when witnessing. With inquiry I found I am a fool.

The good news is the "fool" isn't real either, just another idea to play with. :)
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Re: Releasing Control

Postby Onceler » Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:59 am

Yup, I see that sometimes...A more accurate phrasing, I see my ego as a fool, but mostly it still exists for me; haven't found the unreality yet.

I actually am not in a particular hurry...at the moment.
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Re: Releasing Control

Postby BillyPLed » Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:08 am

"I am in control"

Is that true?

Can you absolutely know that's true?

How do you react when you believe that thought?

Who would you be without that thought?

Then turn the thought around:
"I am not in control"
Find three genuine examples of how this is true for you:

"I am out of control"
Find three examples of this turnaround:

Another deconstruction:

Who is this "I" that thinks it is in control?

What is "control"?

How is it that you are being controlled by that which you are attempting to control?
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Re: Releasing Control

Postby Narz » Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:33 pm

erict wrote:Although the ego is clearly dysfunctional, it is still essential and cannot be discarded altogether.

So why not make your ego work for you?

I don't think someone w/ a healthy unbringing will have a dysfunctional ego. This could be a subject for another thread.
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Re: Releasing Control

Postby Narz » Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:34 pm

As for releasing control I would say this is a highly dangerous thing to do. Now that I'm expecting a child on the way I feel this more than ever. With freedom comes responsibility. Responsibility requires control.
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Re: Releasing Control

Postby Mason » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:36 pm

I'll give this one a shot + great discussion so far guys. Thanks.

Although it literally amost killed me to come to this realization + letting go of control is in someways now easy for me, because, in my former life, (before awakening took root), I was ALL about control...

When I was about 20 years of age I met someone and fell in "love" (I use the word loosely), but let's just say that I believed I needed this person. I'll tell ya guys, I wanted this person like nothing I have ever wanted in my life, but the mistake was I wanted her on my terms. In brief, I sought to control the situation.

Anyhoo, I convinced this person to marry me and for 12 years I tried every trick in the book, and with every ounce of strength that I could muster; I tried and tried to make things turn out the way I wanted them to (on my ego's terms). But despite a collosal effort, control was never truly achieved. All I achieved was suffering and failure. Boo hoo and bla bla. :roll:

But now many years later I finally grasp that only by trying that hard and failing did it prove to me that control on the level I was seeking is completely impossible. If I hadn't tried so hard (literally until the point where it nearly killed me) I wouldn't have been able to know first hand. To take someone else's word for it would be pointless; I had to try with every cell in my body and fail, otherwise I might still harbour hope that control can be achieved on my terms. Now, I know better.

All stories aside... And far more importantly: I now see everywhere I look that a type of "control" is happening. It is the real deal; it is force which controls all things effortlessly everywhere.

A hard-knocks realization that I can't contol things on my ego's terms, and seeing the manifestation of true control, puts me in some proximity to the gateless gate; from there, as erict points out, I can not grasp what releasing ultimate control would look like. Any-and-all realizations aside: the fact that no part of us can ever know what it will be like is precisely why there can be no rational reason to let go. Hence, releasing ultimate contol can not be contrived, it must be spontaneous.

So yeah, if I am wrong so be it, but in my experience it could only be the case that when Adya/Jed are speaking of "giving up control" they are infact speaking of giving up on the type of control that our-false-selves can never achieve through effort and instead giving our-true-selves over to that force which controls all things effortlessly.

In any event Adya said it best: "this is not a control game, it is a surrender game."
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Re: Releasing Control

Postby Ives » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:19 pm

Maybe another way of expressing the giving up of control is: allowing the present moment to be just as it is. Try it now.
It brings an extraordinary sense of relief.
Of going with the flow.

Doing this does not mean that bills will not get paid.

On a personal note, I regularly do Adyashanti’s meditation in which he recommends that you drop all control, let things be, and stop manipulating reality with your mind. It is the best approach to meditation I have ever encountered.
So now when I remember to be present (with the help of the advice of Eckhart, Adyshanti and Jed McKenna), I try to incorporate the letting things be thing.

It seems to be working. But… maybe there is a bit of fear that life will be approached in a too passive manner. That has not been my experience at all.
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Re: Releasing Control

Postby Jonatan » Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:36 am

erict wrote:I'm sort of stuck on the subject of control.

Jed McKenna and Adyashanti talk about releasing control and that strongly resonates with me. But I don't really understand how it works. Although the ego is clearly dysfunctional, it is still essential and cannot be discarded altogether. Where do you draw the line? Between healthy and unhealthy egoic motivations? That doesn't seem right. It's so very subjective. It's an egoic judgment call once again. I just can't grasp what releasing control would look like.

How do you choose and decide from that place? It sort of implies that you don't? But there are always choices and decisions. Every day, every hour, every moment.

You can't grasp it because it's not graspable, you're trying to figure this out with your mind. For the mind, it IS impossible, the mind will always keep grasping, but you can make a choice to stop getting caught up in it. It's the grasping itself that is the source of control. It's not like you EVER succeed in controlling anything, but you sure as hell will keep on trying :)

I would stop trying to grasp it, and just allow the grasping to fade away. Allow myself to discover what's beyond the grasping, what happens when one is not constantly trying to attain something.
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Re: Releasing Control

Postby Joshua » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:13 pm

Narz wrote: Responsibility requires control.


Hi Narz,

I would love to hear more about what role control plays in your life in relation to responsibility, and your pregnancy.

But let me ask you, what happens when something beyond your control goes wrong? Do you blame yourself for being irresponsible?

Letting go of control does not mean doing nothing, and acting irresponsibly. It means doing everything you can, and then letting go of the results of your actions.
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Re: Releasing Control

Postby Narz » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:04 am

Joshua wrote:
Narz wrote: Responsibility requires control.


Hi Narz,

I would love to hear more about what role control plays in your life in relation to responsibility, and your pregnancy.

My GF's pregnancy. ;)

And I have to control the circumstances in order that my child have a safe, healthy life. If I did not care about controlling my life, my life would be quite a mess.

Joshua wrote:But let me ask you, what happens when something beyond your control goes wrong? Do you blame yourself for being irresponsible?

No, but there is very little that is outside my power to at least indirectly influence.

Joshua wrote:Letting go of control does not mean doing nothing, and acting irresponsibly. It means doing everything you can, and then letting go of the results of your actions.

That sounds like letting go of that which one cannot control, not letting go of control.
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Re: Releasing Control

Postby garuda » Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:45 pm

Regarding: eric’s topic “Releasing Control”

This is just my intellectual understanding I offer here; I don’t claim to be able to consistently practice this borrowed wisdom. It seems that when I am fully focused on recognizing consciousness-awareness, that that in itself is a certain releasing of control; and most of the time the decision or action that is spontaneously manifest is usually the best one, because my egoic tendencies were minimized by having my full attention on awareness only. I admit it is a spooky feeling when ego is relegated to the background of my consciousness; and I don’t always trust this staying-in-the-moment devoid of the ego keeping tabs on what happening. It’s a kind of surrendering to the present moment and my ego doesn’t like that at all. So oftentimes it’s a struggle between ego tendencies and trusting the wisdom of the guru. Ouch.........

Also, I think Power of Now addresses this in the chapter on “Surrender”.
Recognize present awareness......... rest in that awareness..........don’t become distracted.
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Re: Releasing Control

Postby Onceler » Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:49 am

Nice post garuda

By the way, check your private messages.
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