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Re: Are You Enlightened?

Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 1:04 am
by Sighclone
Mine is kinder and gentler and more demure.
Now that one made me spill coffee on my shirt!

How little they know....

But thanks, heidi...retiring, shy and demure as you are, we love you. :mrgreen:

Andy

Re: Are You Enlightened?

Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 1:24 am
by smiileyjen101
^ :lol: and Heidi, you're funnier too, which is what makes you 'light'er :wink:
No offence Sighclone you have your moments too thank goodness!!

rachMiel wrote: Problem is I forget it 99% of my waking life.
snowheight wrote:(... dare I? ...) ... ahem ... who is it that forgets? ...
rachMiel wrote: Ummmm ... the organ that resides in my skull and thinks it's "me?"

Enigma shared with absolute clarity and love..... (spaced wider for my slower processing)


Actually, the organ isn't doing the thinking. What you actually are, is.

Thinking originates the same place as everything else, including the brain; in consciousness.

The idea that the organ is what thinks is what leads to the idea that the thinker is in the body.

In fact, the body is in the thinker.
That ^ is the joy of our individuality sharing our oneness.

Re: Are You Enlightened?

Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 1:40 am
by heidi
But thanks, heidi...retiring, shy and demure as you are, we love you. :mrgreen:
Who said retiring?
As my husband says, I am a "delicate flower". So there. :D
Am I identified with that? No, only as recognition to my sensitivities, which are what got me here and are falling away as we speak.

Re: Are You Enlightened?

Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 2:03 am
by Natalie
There has been a gradual shift in my life that has eradicated the crazy and over the top way I experienced emotional suffering. The painful thoughts and their corresponding emotions still come at times, but they barely stick, and if they do, there is a feeling of ‘space’ between them and me. A particularly stubborn, recurrent, sharp and painful thought may come an average of once a month, if that often, these days. It may or may not produce tears, but even as the tears roll down my cheeks, the sense that everything is just the way it is supposed to be stays with me and so does an incredibly sweet feeling of gratitude……gratitude for the same exact ‘thing’ that produces the tears.

This shift was precipitated by Eckhart Tolle’s statement: “You are not your thoughts”. I remember experiencing the most profound feeling of awe ever when these words ‘sunk in’, when I really understood their meaning, and the feeling of freedom that followed was out this world. I also felt, for the first time in 46 years, the experience of an ‘empty head’, no thoughts of any kind formed as I savored these feelings of gratitude, awe and freedom. I felt peace for the first time. These feelings are abiding.

Many personal and emotional transformations followed this initial experience, none as intense. I lost interest in politics, sports teams, and things of that nature. I am no longer the dutiful Army wife I once was, and can no longer ‘stomach’ 99% of the TV programming I once found entertaining. A new ‘self confidence’ has taken over me and I swear I’ve even gained a few IQ points :D or a lot :D :D . These days I catch myself expressing ideas and views that I just know are not coming from ‘me’. I feel as if I can tap into a source of knowledge and power not available to me before. I sometimes attribute this to the fact that my mind is a lot less cluttered after my initial shift and I now take longer before speaking because nothing is pressing me to express myself. I find it intensely pleasurable to live under my own skin.

New feelings of love and concern for the planet and compassion for all its inhabitants are now familiar to me. I see myself in the starving face of an African child and the sad face of an abused dog, and it hurts, but it is a different kind of hurt. It feels as if it is a the kind of hurt that’s there for us to savor and touch and swim in.

Am I enlightened, awakened or self-realized? No clue. I think I am on an awakening and self-realization path, and I am loving every moment of it, even the short periods of apathy, which are always preceded and proceeded by sheer joy and appreciation of the perfections and ‘imperfections’ that surround me. I am where I am suppossed to be.

I have finally put down the knife.

Natalie

Re: Are You Enlightened?

Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 3:09 am
by heidi
I have finally put down the knife.
:)
Letting go of those opinions, just releasing them, is the liberation that feels like peace.

Re: Are You Enlightened?

Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 3:25 am
by vera
I would never trust someone, never contextualize their words based on a story or claim of enlightenment. If their words don’t resonate, if I can’t look to what they are pointing at and see something true for myself, then it’s of no help to me whatsoever.

That’s all I look for when I come to these sorts of forums. It’s very simple and nothing else is needed. The more emptiness, the more absence of stories, the more the only way to approach what is being said is to look for myself. I am grateful to those who keep themselves out of it enough to make this easier for me than it would otherwise be.

That's what is helpful for me, that's what I have found leads to insights and realizations for me. I understand others may have a different experience.

Re: Are You Enlightened?

Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 3:34 am
by Sighclone
I have many times maintained that it is the personal comments, like Natalie's above that are the absolute best items on this forum. That particular one resonated deeply with "me" because I had a similar experience; thanks very much Natalie for that and many other fine posts.

I do not know about the rest of you folks, but I think I heard sound of ten million "one hands" clapping as I read that.

And it's part of the reason I tossed out the "Are you enlightened?" question (not the first time I've done that, by the way...it's one of erict's dangerous questions :) ...)

Andy

Re: Are You Enlightened?

Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 1:25 pm
by snowheight
Natalie wrote: Many personal and emotional transformations followed this initial experience, none as intense. I lost interest in politics, sports teams, and things of that nature. I am no longer the dutiful Army wife I once was, and can no longer ‘stomach’ 99% of the TV programming I once found entertaining. A new ‘self confidence’ has taken over me and I swear I’ve even gained a few IQ points :D or a lot :D :D . These days I catch myself expressing ideas and views that I just know are not coming from ‘me’. I feel as if I can tap into a source of knowledge and power not available to me before. I sometimes attribute this to the fact that my mind is a lot less cluttered after my initial shift and I now take longer before speaking because nothing is pressing me to express myself. I find it intensely pleasurable to live under my own skin.
nice Nat'! thanks for sharing!

Re: Are You Enlightened?

Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 3:51 pm
by Quinn
I agree completely with Vera. Someone's answer to the question "Are you enlightened?" has nothing to do with how much their posts do or don't speak truth to me.

Natalie, that was a beautiful post and I'm so happy for you that life has taken on such freedom and peace. But I'm not going to decide how much weight to give your other posts based on that description. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't even want me to. I'm not just singling you out - others have described some amazing changes too, and the same holds true.

I think the question is only dangerous in that it can lead to comparing, judging, and quantifying something that is way too nebulous for that. Something that isn't even a something.

Re: Are You Enlightened?

Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 4:39 pm
by heidi
I think the question is only dangerous in that it can lead to comparing, judging, and quantifying something that is way too nebulous for that.
Or making fun of the human nature to do such things on a website dedicated to to the serious business of awakening, oh my! :lol:

Re: Are You Enlightened?

Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 8:33 pm
by Ralph
The question is "Are You Enlightened ?"

Well, would you like to see a person get enlightened ? ...if yes, then please watch this clip.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Moojiji#p/u/0/Hm2iK60qEm0

... the mind will not find this funny.

Re: Are You Enlightened?

Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 11:35 pm
by ashley72
The question, what started you on the path to awakening in the first place? Should precede the question, please describe what awakening looks and feels like?

Eckhart Tolle stated he didn't even know what enlightenment was, until some years after it had actually happened to him.

For me, I got on the path because I had no choice, I was forced there... I still have no choice in the matter. Who here volunteered or signed up to suffer? It's a disorder. Whilst Tolle may not have read a book on Awakening, he was definitely trying to find a way out of suffering. In that search he realized that he was not his thoughts, he found are way to ignore those thoughts, or found the "space" around them. That were causing all his suffering. He found who he really is, no I-thoughts, no suffering. He found a way to suffer and be conscious at the same moment.

Suffering deeply is the most likely way someone comes to the path - because suffering led them to that place, and suffering became the ultimate teacher.

If someone coming to this forum doesnt have suffering to speak to them. Pointers on awakening would not resonate with the same clarity, as someone who is deeply suffering.

Any personal and direct stories devoid of suffering would not resonate with me.

Re: Are You Enlightened?

Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 12:06 am
by ashley72
Natalie's story did resonate with me. Thanks for sharing.

I can have moments when I can find space around my thoughts, when they seem distant. I notice they don't have a hold and I feel calm. I see clearly. In other moments, particular around some people, they have a terrible grip, and suffering is there to remind me of the strangle-hold, I try and awaken from this state, fear won't let go. I can no longer find space to move, I feels it's powerful grip. I see the connection between the pull of fear, and staying awake and conscious. I try and listen to the conversation, and accept the feelings arising, let them go and listen to the conversation. The grip is still holding, but the grip is loosening. A moment later, the grip of fear has gone. Here It comes again, it's like a cycle. Those I-thoughts are coming and going. But hard to see and let go of. It's like when I stop looking for them, the fear goes, but when I look for them again the fear arises. When I look for the fear, I invited fear. Maybe if I stop inviting fear by not looking for it... It might go?

Re: Are You Enlightened?

Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 1:24 pm
by snowheight
ashley72 wrote:Natalie's story did resonate with me. Thanks for sharing.

I can have moments when I can find space around my thoughts, when they seem distant. I notice they don't have a hold and I feel calm. I see clearly. In other moments, particular around some people, they have a terrible grip, and suffering is there to remind me of the strangle-hold, I try and awaken from this state, fear won't let go. I can no longer find space to move, I feels it's powerful grip. I see the connection between the pull of fear, and staying awake and conscious. I try and listen to the conversation, and accept the feelings arising, let them go and listen to the conversation. The grip is still holding, but the grip is loosening. A moment later, the grip of fear has gone. Here It comes again, it's like a cycle. Those I-thoughts are coming and going. But hard to see and let go of. It's like when I stop looking for them, the fear goes, but when I look for them again the fear arises. When I look for the fear, I invited fear. Maybe if I stop inviting fear by not looking for it... It might go?
This first step ... that recognition of what is happening ... I know for me this often does not "happen in time to prevent reaction out of fear" ... but also recognize that there was a time in your life when that recognition was not there at all, or even if it was, the recognition occurred outside of a framework for discerning exactly what was going on.

This first step seems to be the one that cannot be unmade and which apparently makes this a one way street.

Re: Are You Enlightened?

Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 6:45 pm
by snowheight
Ralph wrote:The question is "Are You Enlightened ?"

Well, would you like to see a person get enlightened ? ...if yes, then please watch this clip.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Moojiji#p/u/0/Hm2iK60qEm0

... the mind will not find this funny.
The advice from Mooji which woke her up is powerful as the mind does seem to do this dance with us ... it reacts to the experience of awakening by both jading itself to it and by pining for it and trying to re-capture it with what caused it before ... only by recognizing that and letting go of that past Joy can we claim it again.