Job that requires lots of thinking

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SevenSeconds
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Job that requires lots of thinking

Post by SevenSeconds » Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:35 pm

What I do for a living requires lots of logical, deep thinking. It's also done on computer for many hours every day.
What do I do? Do I quit?
Someone asked this question to Eckhart. He answered that I may want to quit (as he did), or try to bring enough presence into the job.
I don't really want to quit.
What I am interested in is, is it worth the effort of "bringing in presence"? or it's just gonna hold me back no matter how hard I try?
I mean, if I succeed at being highly present and dissolve painbody associated with the job(lots of stress), am I gonna get tons of benefits out of it?
Can I make this job become a powerful spiritual practice? Or it's all useless and is not worth it?

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Kutso
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Re: Job that requires lots of thinking

Post by Kutso » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:21 pm

Thinking is not the problem. Identification with thoughts is.
Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that.

SevenSeconds
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Re: Job that requires lots of thinking

Post by SevenSeconds » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:58 pm

Kutso wrote:Thinking is not the problem. Identification with thoughts is.
I know that. You totally misunderstood me.

SevenSeconds
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Re: Job that requires lots of thinking

Post by SevenSeconds » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:24 pm

Sorry for not being clear enough. I'm going to write a script of what Eckhart Tolle answered to the question about left-brain type job.
After reading this, read my question again and feel free to ask additional questions.

Woman: Mister Tolle. I find it very difficult to combine learning/studying/actively thinking with no thinking, being present. It's a big dilemma for me.
Eckhart: Yes, yes. Thank you. Do you like what you're learning and studying or you're doing it just because it's part of getting a job or ...
Woman: No, i do it because I like it.
Eckhart: Ok. Periodically move your mind away from... let's say you have books or .. do you work on computer screen..?
Woman: I'm doing literary research, but also writing. So it's combined.
Eckhart: Literary research. I did that once(smile). Now ... I have to admit here ... that I gave it up (crowd laughing). Hahaha, but... that does not mean that you should give it up. Especially if you like it. If there's an element of enjoyment while doing it, you can actually feel the enjoyment in the background... that helps a little. And periodically move away from the concepts and just get in touch with ... take few conscious breaths in between your work, feel the inner body, aliveness inside the body. Look out of the window, focus on sense perceptions, especially nature. All these things have to do with stepping out of the mind, bringing your attention to your breath, bringing intention into the body, or bring your attention to sense perceptions. Also to counteract an excessive amount of conceptional work, meditation may help. So, you may want to introduce meditation period into your life where you practice being free of thinking as much as possible. But main meditation of this teaching is everyday life. -examples- there are great opportunities for being in space awareness rather than thinking. Don't think about your work when you don't want to think, don't let it run your life. Don't think about your project continuously. You'll have more ideas with periods of no thinking.
Bring more balance in. Also with some activity, perhaps going out to the nature. Nature is great way to balance excessive mind activity. Animal may help too. Wonderful to have a dog or cat, THEY'RE NOT THINKING. Just use little things to step out of that.
So, carry on if possible, otherwise give it up. If every unhappiness arises around it, then it's time to step out of ...
Woman: thank you.
Eckhart: thank you.

Dohjo
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Re: Job that requires lots of thinking

Post by Dohjo » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:27 pm

Kutso wrote:Thinking is not the problem. Identification with thoughts is.
This seems to be very true. Quitting your job because it requires thinking isn't an option. What it signals me is that you have given up. That you actually let your thoughts control you.

I see nothing wrong with thinking as long as you control the thoughts. Like if I have to look up a word, I do it by myself, I use my thoughts to access google or what ever.

arel
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Re: Job that requires lots of thinking

Post by arel » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:46 pm

I know what you mean. I forget myself when working on a computer as well. When I enjoy the work, I don't mind, but when not, it becomes some sort of agitation feeling. And I know I lost touch with the simplicity and contentment of this moment when I notice that. It seems to help me to crystalize the thoughts by saying them out loud. Seems like dis attachement happens from the thoughts, there is me and the thoughts I see/hear when I make them into sound. Also helps to stay with a train of thought.

Breathing is also a big part of helping me be present. I often notice when I start holding my breath when working on a computer.
What I say is only my viewpoint.

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dijmart
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Re: Job that requires lots of thinking

Post by dijmart » Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:47 pm

SevenSeconds wrote:I mean, if I succeed at being highly present and dissolve painbody associated with the job(lots of stress), am I gonna get tons of benefits out of it? Can I make this job become a powerful spiritual practice? Or it's all useless and is not worth it?
I recently dropped the high stress of my job, what I mean is I realized my thoughts and mind were tormenting me quite literally. I thought about my job when I would be off, I worried I couldn't get all the computer work done without working 10, 11, 12 hours per day, on and on and on.... It was never ending battle for my sanity. I had no balance between my work and home life. I almost quit, but then one day I went into work and knowing my charting was about 4 hours behind (I'm a home health nurse) it all of a sudden became funny...I started laughing and laughing, then thought this is not worth driving myself crazy over. It's just a damn job!

Ever since that day everything has changed regarding my job. I don't get stressed (not often I should say), I don't work beyond the hours I'm willing to work, I look around and enjoy the moments of "space" I can put in between my thoughts. I allow awareness to flow into my work now, instead of letting my thoughts rule me every second. My job has now showed me how to live, as corny as that sounds, I am grateful for the lesson!
Take what you like and leave the rest.

snowheight
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Re: Job that requires lots of thinking

Post by snowheight » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:30 am

Seven',

I also do alot of mind work in front of a computer.

When the mind isn't using me, and the work is flowing, it's absolute magic. The product just fills up the screen ... all the endless excruciating choices just make themselves. I don't think that this is something we can try to do ... I know that this might leave a bad taste in your mouth, but this is something that we just have to let happen. We have to get out of our own way, jump in, and hand on for the ride.

One aspect of my job involves speaking with people on the phone who present problems that they are often very emotionally attached to ... pre-Tolle, I'd often get swept up in the maelstrom, and every conversation would be shadowed by an excruciating inner-knife-fight ... these days, I do them quite a bit more good.

There's still a person here, so not every day is a "good" day, and for me, it's the solitary creative mind-work that an identified state can slow down, while the people-contact thing is pretty still.

This is a cliche, but what I notice is that the less I concentrate on the outcome, and the more I just immerse myself in the process, the less likely that mis-identification is to occur. Deadlines, of course, are a specific challenge.

One aspect of my old work world that I don't have these days is a boss or competitive co-workers ... but I remember that. I can see now how that situation would be entirely different if I were confronted with it now. The next time a higher-up starts getting unreasonable or someone back-stabs you or doles out some other negative presentation to you try this: look at their face, and don't associated it with a person ... this is just the Universe channeling jealousy or impatience or unreasonable demands or unwarranted criticism or deception ... these things simply are ... don't hear the speech as if there is an individual there ... there is just this vehicle for delivering what arises ... don't connect the eyes and the moving mouth with the story of the person as you know it. Ask yourself this, is this person creating the thoughts that are driving their behavior? Do you create your own thoughts? Where do they come from for you? ... so in the case of the pest or the nuisance or the hazardous co-worker or boss ... where do those thoughts come from?

Good luck with it!
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

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Kutso
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Re: Job that requires lots of thinking

Post by Kutso » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:41 am

SevenSeconds wrote:I know that. You totally misunderstood me.
Actually, I didn't. What I'm saying is that you seem to equate "thinking" with "bad". That you can't be peaceful when there is thinking. This is not true. Thoughts only creates suffering when you invest a sense of self in them. If you don't, there will be no suffering.
Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that.

unbornawakened
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Re: Job that requires lots of thinking

Post by unbornawakened » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:13 am

Interesting topic.

There are several ways of looking at this issue.

Thoughts focused on self are usually the ones that cause 'suffering'. If you focus on a task, that is a great thing. You are using the mind for what it was meant to be used for. And I am not here to quote ET or someone else, if you use your mind on a task it is qualified to crack, without resistance but with interest, you can often feel flow.

On the other hand, in my opinion (and I am not quoting anyone), I have a hunch that the mind was not meant to be used for very long arduous mental tasks over a long period. Modern society, esp. when working in the technology and science fields, can sometimes be very demanding on the brain. The brain gets tired. It may start to run out of nutrients. The same may be said of arduous physical tasks, for most people doing a few hours of arduous physical work will be painful. So breaks are needed. ET is talking about taking mental breaks. I feel that most depressions occur in intellectual people - they make to much use of their brain, even when not working. If you overwork any organ or member of your body, it is going to get sick at some point. The chemicals get depleted. Some supplements can help provide the nutrition beyond what nature has deemed necessary. You may need to research those supplements, but there are some on the market. Part of the cause of depression - lack of mental energy, low - is the depletion and exhaustion of the brain. Think of overusing your muscles for long periods, without proper nutrition and rest, and see what happens.

Unfortunately, modern enterprises want to get the most out of you. They will suck you dry and spit you out, if you don't watch out. So, take breaks as much as you can. Even a 1 minute break every hour, closing your eyes can be helpful. Take a walk after lunch.

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dijmart
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Re: Job that requires lots of thinking

Post by dijmart » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:50 am

unbornawakened wrote:Unfortunately, modern enterprises want to get the most out of you. They will suck you dry and spit you out, if you don't watch out.
Absolutely!!! When I realized I could NOT keep up with unreasonable demands "that" is when it became funny to me that I would have even put that artificial stress on myself as an actual attainable goal. I decided I was not going to let them "suck me dry" as Unborn says. I had a sit down with my boss and stated what I was actually going to be able to accomplish in one day (regardless of what they "wanted") and if that wasn't satisfactory, then they could take whatever action they'd like...that was over a month ago and nothing has happened. All my mind made up versions of being yelled at, written up or fired never came to pass...most likely because they knew what they were expecting was ridiculous!
Take what you like and leave the rest.

rontant
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Re: Job that requires lots of thinking

Post by rontant » Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:18 am

dijmart wrote:that was over a month ago and nothing has happened. All my mind made up versions of being yelled at, written up or fired never came to pass...
99% of what we worry about never happen. Ever wonder why Insurance companies work so well? :mrgreen:
dijmart wrote:most likely because they knew what they were expecting was ridiculous!
Or perhaps they now see a cool, assertive and reliable new "you", someone valuable for them to keep. Anyway, it doesn't matter.

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dijmart
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Re: Job that requires lots of thinking

Post by dijmart » Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:26 am

rontant wrote:
dijmart wrote:most likely because they knew what they were expecting was ridiculous!
Or perhaps they now see a cool, assertive and reliable new "you", someone valuable for them to keep. Anyway, it doesn't matter.
Yeh, whose to say they "knew" anything :lol:
Anyways, I'm the RN trainer at my work, with nurses it's like a revolving door. If I leave who would train the newbies...lol. Like I said, it was all in my "mind" and that's the point, but I couldn't see it for the longest time.
Take what you like and leave the rest.

phleppen
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Re: Job that requires lots of thinking

Post by phleppen » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:57 pm

I too have been struggling with my ultra-thinking computer job... I am ready to start a farm and work in overalls... who's with me?

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Kutso
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Re: Job that requires lots of thinking

Post by Kutso » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:31 pm

phleppen wrote:I too have been struggling with my ultra-thinking computer job... I am ready to start a farm and work in overalls... who's with me?
Nah. I too have a ultra-thinking computer job, and I love it! :)
Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that.

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