Infidelity

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nanashi
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Infidelity

Post by nanashi » Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:16 am

As with most threads under this topic, I'm hoping to receive some advice and insight to my current situation. I appreciate any thoughtful response especially since right now I feel like I have a lot of noise in my head.

I will try to hit only the important details. Recently I have just come back from a 7 month deployment overseas and on the day I came back, I noticed a file on my wife's computer. It was clear graphical evidence to me that she had been physically intimate with another guy who we had just come to know and who my wife was working for at his local business (gym owner). The "relationship" persisted for about 4 weeks. My wife claims they did not have intercourse which I believe - but he did enter our house to see her in my absence to do "work".

Now I have discussed the topic to extreme length with her and I am trying hard to keep my presence in my every day activity, especially with my young one. However, it is hard to go more than 10 minutes without thoughts of confusion and/or distraught plaguing my mind and consciousness. I try to realize that the pain I am enduring comes as a result of my pain body diving straight in to this experience, making the pain body heavier than it ever was. Similarly, I try to ask myself who is the "I" that feels distraught? Is it the real me that is experiencing the pain or is it the ego? Nevertheless, I am still having problems coping with the events, most likely due to the fact that the event seemed completely unimaginable to me and she was such an important part of my life.

Which brings me to my next query, what was the relationship to me? Was it something I had been using to feed my own "existence?" Did I assume "possession" over her? I thought I was a little careful when it came to being in a true relationship but the pain is still deeply there and the confusion is still invading my mind and taking over my emotions.

I know there are some amazing minds on these forums and I am grateful for the guidance they have provided to users thus far.
Be water, my friend.

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smiileyjen101
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Re: Infidelity

Post by smiileyjen101 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:24 am

Nanashi, first as always - breathe out, you are likely holding some of this emotion in - breathe out until you feel the angst soften.

Breathe a bit without the tension just concentrating on whatever is right there.

When you are ready to focus on the issue/s any time you tense up do the above.

Have you noticed yet you're mixing up the tense (present to past) in your questions?

Always, always, suffering is the distance between your expectation and your reality, intense suffering is allowing imagination to run away with you as well.

If you can identify the expectation that you are now disappointed with not being the reality, look at that (each one) until you find a way to accept this is not the reality (no big stories, no imagining or embellishing what is, just the reality). It sometimes helps to 'hold' your expectation in one hand, and the reality in the other, then you will see what will have to happen for them to merge.

From there you know how to figure out if you can accept, change or remove yourself from it (the reality that is).

The thoughts invading your mind are understandable... oh, you again... ; )
Decide consciously with each one as it arise if you want to entertain them or not.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com

nutrition
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Re: Infidelity

Post by nutrition » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:03 pm

Nanashi,
what you feel is normal, it is ego, yes, but it is the response we all get in situations like yours.
Forgive her and tell her that: I forgive you. Even if you have to fake it while you tell her. It will be a huge release.
Then forgive yourself for thinking you should not feel the way you do and for thinking all the horrible thoughts you do think. We are capable of the most horrible mind games.
Then you can decide if you want to continue living your life with her or if you need to change your expectations about what marriage is,,,fidelity etc..
We were all raised to think that adultery is bad and that it should not be done. The reality is, as BK will say: it happens. And quite often.
blessing

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heidi
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Re: Infidelity

Post by heidi » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:11 pm

Hi Nanashi - Thank you for your service to us. :)
Betrayal is a real lesson, and you are asking the right questions. Yes, our egos are wrapped up in our relationships, and when trust is betrayed, it's a perfect invitation to practice relying on presence in those moments when the memories pop up or future is imagined. When those images/points of view come up, I use them as a spring board. Jen's advice to breathe is right on, as you can use that breath to call your spirit back to presence in every moment, and allow those thoughts, opinions, points of view, to dissipate. Just allow them to flow through like any other concept. Or run with the ball for awhile if it doesn't cause suffering. :wink: There is big power - the power of all creation! - there in the allowing.

Honestly, I am still dealing with a familial betrayal that has so many facets and layers and history, I've had to distance myself from the perp. :D
There's something called radical forgiveness that I am working on. It seems I need to forgive myself for allowing all the baloney of the betrayal to usurp so much of my energy, for allowing my personal boundaries to be violated, before I can really be completely present with the deal and the idea of even being in the same room with the violator. :roll: Meantime, I'm in a paradox of allowing everything to be as it is and maintaining healthy personal boundaries.
We humans live in a world where in many families and relationships there's a thin line between compassion and codependence; where personal boundaries need to be honored - not from a place of ego protection but from a place of honesty and presence. I guess the question you need to ask yourself is whether or not the indiscretion is something that doesn't matter or does it violate your core truth? Don't sell yourself short just because your ego is involved. If it's good for anything, it can help you know where your boundaries are. :lol:

Many people do think they are fulfilled by relationships when in fact they use them to try to find happiness outside of themselves when we all know it's an inside job. When you are whole unto yourself and don't need anyone, that is when your life is fulfilled in so many ways from the bottomless well of clarity.

Good luck, and happy holidays!
Heidi
http://www.heidimayo.com
wonderment on the third wave

hanss
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Re: Infidelity

Post by hanss » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:36 pm

smiileyjen101 wrote:It sometimes helps to 'hold' your expectation in one hand, and the reality in the other, then you will see what will have to happen for them to merge.
Ahh...very good! Goes in to my qoute/wisdom collection :)
"In today's rush we all think too much, seek too much, want too much and forget about the joy of just Being."
(Eckhart Tolle)

snowheight
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Re: Infidelity

Post by snowheight » Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:12 pm

Nanashi,

"Pain"?

Here, the true failure of language and conceptualization is shown in all its wonderful and tragic glory.

"Ego"? Give me a f#%@in' break man ... "Possession"?

Your love for this woman screams out of your post as clearly as the anguish. It's not a matter of possession but of intertwining. Rather a palm clenching a coin, the proper metaphor might be two trees or plants growing so close that their roots are winding around one another. Pulling on that ... it's gonna hurt ... man you build a time machine and go back to a few years after his assent to Nirvana under the Bohdi tree and take a hammer to Siddhārtha Gautama's kneecap and he's gonna scream ... punch ET in the eye and it will swell up.

At this point in your perspective how could you not seek to observe and put some space between what you know you are and this mess? ... but don't expect any real answers based in your practice and what you've learned. Don't expect some magic non-dual bullet that is going to make the pain go away. In the end, your practice can make a difference, but that difference is more in the future. This indescribable feeling of betrayal and loss is your Now.

I don't have any kids so I'm even more removed than just first person, but here's the thing. She's still there and so are you.

We put a big hole in a woman's life when we leave their side ... a big, white, man-shaped cut-out from their heart from the kitchen table from the drivers seat of the car and from the side of the bed we sleep on. Facing what happened, while a mind-projection, is imperative, and in this case, self-inquiry includes your wife, not just you. You've referred to the time you've spent speaking with her about this, let's just make sure that all the ground that should be covered has been.

Have you spoken to her about why she did this? You know she has got to feel guilty ... if she doesn't ... well ... let's not mind project there. I'm a bit unclear on whether or not she has completely admitted what you discovered ... spare us and yourself the details but if it is there then that is a bit of resistance that would justify some effort. Getting her to come completely clean is imperative, and if you haven't already you might find some dragons in those waters.

Some aspects of this can be seen in the light of the "enlightenment complex" of concepts to some immediate benefit. Prior to this there was a center, a core, something on which there was reliance ... a resting of the mind. To expect a new normal based on such an abrupt dissolution of this center is to expect the super-human. Much of the disorientation and anxiety probably has an unformed (much less articulated) worry about this happening again, regardless of what has been said and what is at the front of either of your minds.

Ultimately, transcendence of this fear is what will dissolve the distraction ... but with this pain that is beyond the word pain, the preceding phrase, for all its truth value, is as useful as a f#%@ing screen door on a submarine. In the meantime, try to figure out whether you can expect this to happen again, as you've got to face this fear regardless of whether you are facing it for the purpose of seeing it for the phantom it is. The image of a future entwining free of such an event is gone forever. This is. The real you can see this without a judgment ... but you've got to get through each day until then and resting on a new temporary center of subjective truth, whatever that might be, is just a matter of practicality.

What is it that she wants now? If you offered her an easy out, would she take it? From what you've written it seems that neither of you really want that. That is a great starting point toward getting toward a morning where this isn't the first thing that greets the waking mind.
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

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ashley72
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Re: Infidelity

Post by ashley72 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:11 pm

Ive had different kinds of relationships in life, ones in which I was overly possessive and ones when I wasn't.

The relationships in which I was overly possessive, jealousy & insecurity followed. The relationships where I was not possessive at all... no feelings of jealousy or insecurity followed.

I personally feel in this situation it depends on what early foundations have been laid from the beginning of the attachment or conditioning... which dictates the outcome and what may follow.

Someone who isn't all that possessive wont go digging for details in the first place... It doesn't follow from a non possessive root or conditioning. A possessive root will definitely have insecurity & jealousy feeding it.

I learnt this myself through first-hand experience... I unfortunately made the mistake of being overly possessive in several relationships for nearly two decades ....before I finally changed those conditioned ways.

Does it really matter if she has sexual feelings for others? Let her have the affair... what you don't know doesn't hurt you.... Dont go after the details.... It won't lead to a good place. Love can still prosper without a possessive nature... Actually it will prosper more easily without possessiveness thrown into the mix.

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Re: Infidelity

Post by alex » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:25 pm

Hi Nanashi,
I too have recently gone through some emotional turmoil - only I was the perpetuator of the infidelity! It looks like the bad guy role but the intensity of the negative emotions I went through was quite surprising.
All I can say is growth growth growth.
Where does your allegiance lie? With waking up more or fueling and believing in those mind stories?
You have been handed an experience with the extraodinary ability to push you out of your comfortable stories. Sure it can be painful and confusing as heck but if you let yourself come to acceptance and a deeper commitment to being then it is all worthwhile and ultimately nothing but another learning curve under your belt.
All the best and remember that -
~This Too Shall Pass~

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Ziendus
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Re: Infidelity

Post by Ziendus » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:16 pm

Hi NN

NN:
> Is it the real me that is experiencing the pain or is it the ego?

There is nothing but real me.
---ooOoo---

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nanashi
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Re: Infidelity

Post by nanashi » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:22 pm

Thanks for the guidance. Your responses have allowed me to open my eyes a bit more. It amazes me a little bit how easily it is to be able to pick up my situation.

Jen: You are absolutely right about my expectation and reality being completely different and I see this better now. I would constantly say to myself, "all I wanted was a little bit of simplicity when I get home." And now I see a little bit better where I want to go with my situation. Also, I do feel like the foundation I used to be able to stand on, or maybe even the surface upon which my deeper core would rest, was completely stripped from underneath me - leaving a feeling of floating weightlessness and loneliness.

snowheight: I have talked to her about the why: selfishness, freedom, availability, comfort, and understanding/connection were here answers; maliciousness was not in the game plan. I am still pondering about the future and her ability to coexist with me but I at this point, and we have been married for only 3.5 years, marriage is not something I believe she's ready for, nor something I want to really be a part of. But I do want to continue to be with her and try to reconcile our relationship, if that makes any sense. Even though marriage to me is a bit conceptualized, of the meaning that it does carry for me - I don't believe she is ready for. I have offered her an easy out, asked her if she wants to continue her relationship with the dude, explained to her we don't need to keep going if this isn't really what she wants. Her answer was always consistent in that she wants nothing else but to be with me. But at this point, it's strange: because the only thing I can say I honestly fear right now is her (and her unpredictability).

nutrition: I think I need to read up again a bit on why forgiveness is so important, for myself and for others. I told my wife that I had forgiven her and I had meant it. Oh, and I also met with the dude yesterday who I talked with for an hour. He was sorry (lol). But surprisingly I decided to forgive him as well, even though I don't really know how I could be angry at someone whom I don't really know. But most importantly, I have forgiven myself for my thoughts and emotions. I definitely have had some cruel images flow through the back of my eyelids but I am trying my best to align myself with everything that is transpiring.

alex: This is definitely an experience from which I know I will be growing. I've stressed honesty to her and if there's something else she is looking for, she needs to tell me, especially now more than ever. Aside from that, I'm searching myself more for that inner happiness and often finding it. I'm seeing the transience of relationships and all beings. Coming back from deployment, I knew I wanted simplicity, but I didn't know that I already had it. And most of all, I'm still trying to share my unconditional love.

Ultimately all of this is a practice. And practice, to me, does not mean a quest for mastery or an upgrade from a complete novice level. It just means that I must treat every experience as a potential opportunity for growth.
Be water, my friend.

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smiileyjen101
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Re: Infidelity

Post by smiileyjen101 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:02 am

Nanashi - this is breathtaking
Ultimately all of this is a practice. And practice, to me, does not mean a quest for mastery or an upgrade from a complete novice level. It just means that I must treat every experience as a potential opportunity for growth.
Honesty (with self and others) is the highest form of love.
The relationship you (both) built on expectation has likely crumbled under the weight of it - not that I'm judging your relationship, far from it, what I mean to say is life hones away unreal expectations of self and other to reveal the authentic beneath.

An interesting conversation may be to discuss both of your expectations and perception of the differences in reality, if it can be done from both sides in authentic respect and love. The sort of conversation you would have with your best friend, some helpful sentence starters might be to each complete things like...

I thought that............... but what I found was ........................
Or I really need..................................but what I'm feeling is ...........................
Our vows meant .............................................................. to me.

When the layers are stripped away as in all things you can choose between love and fear - opening or closing, you can choose to make enemy, obstacle, means to an end of the situation, people or even the pain, or you can as you have above choose to see the experiential value in it.

In a sense from a relational sense, the relationship you ('thought' you) had IS over.
But don't panic, with this clarity and wisdom borne of experience, both a few years older and wiser, you can both decide - hopefully honestly with self and other what the new relationship will hold and what you are both prepared and not prepared to consciously commit yourselves to.

It's some journey aint it! hugs jen
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com

snowheight
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Re: Infidelity

Post by snowheight » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:42 am

nanashi wrote:snowheight: I have talked to her about the why: selfishness, freedom, availability, comfort, and understanding/connection were here answers; maliciousness was not in the game plan. I am still pondering about the future and her ability to coexist with me but I at this point, and we have been married for only 3.5 years, marriage is not something I believe she's ready for, nor something I want to really be a part of. But I do want to continue to be with her and try to reconcile our relationship, if that makes any sense. Even though marriage to me is a bit conceptualized, of the meaning that it does carry for me - I don't believe she is ready for. I have offered her an easy out, asked her if she wants to continue her relationship with the dude, explained to her we don't need to keep going if this isn't really what she wants. Her answer was always consistent in that she wants nothing else but to be with me. But at this point, it's strange: because the only thing I can say I honestly fear right now is her (and her unpredictability).
nanashi,

I catch a solemnity borne of lightness in your reply.

Life will flow in and what happens between you and this woman is what happens.

I think that you know what I mean when I say that I also get the sense that you are creating the space to let that be.

Wishin' you well dude.
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

nutrition
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Re: Infidelity

Post by nutrition » Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:35 pm

Sometimes I get these crazy idea and I am not sure I should post this, but after all we are just an evolved ape and as such we have a hard time refraining from sexual desires. The mind says no, the animal instinct says yes. Is it possible to have total control over this animalistic instinct we have in us?
blessing

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Ziendus
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Re: Infidelity

Post by Ziendus » Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:21 pm

Nutritia:
> Is it possible to have total control over this animalistic instinct we have in us?

In the near future, yes.
I-ll have the BiPeno-3000 implanted and a harim of willing androidikas in the home.

X
---ooOoo---

nutrition
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Re: Infidelity

Post by nutrition » Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:23 pm

Ziendus wrote:Nutritia:
> Is it possible to have total control over this animalistic instinct we have in us?

In the near future, yes.
I-ll have the BiPeno-3000 implanted and a harim of willing androidikas in the home.

X
:lol:

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