Why should we become enlightened?

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
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ZenDrumming
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Why should we become enlightened?

Post by ZenDrumming » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:00 am

We are here, collectively, living the dysfunction of ego. That is exactly as it should be. However, nothing compares to the experience of translating discord into harmony. We play it like a game of solitaire and make sure the pieces fit. So why would I want to finish the game if the reward lies in playing it?

I was talking with a friend last night about the shifting of perspective to direct experience. Direct experience would be, to me, the next step in our evolution of consciousness (if there is one). She made me realize, however, that I don't care if the rest of the world "wakes up". People are just fine living their human lives. If we shift too far away from ego, what's the point of being here in the first place? Enlightened human beings have little to say to each other. Pure awareness and direct experience have little use in a world in which we are simply players in the game of black vs. white.

To be honest, my friend and I both swapped positions numerous times throughout the conversation, but this is what I really took away that challenged my current perspective.

I have lately had a few experiences of recognizing the Presence in another and yet feeling like they do not wish to step outside of the illusion. It's like if an actor in a play started breaking the role because he got tired of the story line and the rest of the actors gave a look as if to say "what are you doing? we're here to perform this play." This thought absolutely could be baseless, but I can't seem to shake it.

If anybody has any insight or quotes/links, I'd appreciate the input. Much love to you all.

hanss
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Re: Why should we become enlightened?

Post by hanss » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:11 am

I have similar thoughts from time to time. We are a part of a game and instead of participating in it, we do everything we can to get out of it and escape. With little success it seams. How many on this "spiritual path" are actually peaceful, happy and in the flow of life? I know it is impossible but it would be interesting with some statistics :) What is the outcome and the result? If you are not familiar with Alan Watts he has some interesting philosophy. Here is a link: Alan Watts - Is Life Serious? (Part 1)
"In today's rush we all think too much, seek too much, want too much and forget about the joy of just Being."
(Eckhart Tolle)

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ZenDrumming
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Re: Why should we become enlightened?

Post by ZenDrumming » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:22 pm

hanss wrote:I have similar thoughts from time to time. We are a part of a game and instead of participating in it, we do everything we can to get out of it and escape. With little success it seams. How many on this "spiritual path" are actually peaceful, happy and in the flow of life? I know it is impossible but it would be interesting with some statistics :) What is the outcome and the result? If you are not familiar with Alan Watts he has some interesting philosophy. Here is a link: Alan Watts - Is Life Serious? (Part 1)
It does seem so pointless doesn't it? I'm sure the ego can be transcended, but why? The masses will always sleep, and even most of those who are close to us will probably reject our stepping out of the drama. I'd rather love and be loved, laugh and cry, play and work, with those around me, than alienate most of them with my "boring" stillness. I'd rather be noticed.

There is a part of me that knows I am headed there anyway. I don't think I have any choice in the matter. I just wonder whether it truly is the best thing for people.

I am a huge fan of Alan Watts. He's the one I borrowed the idea of "black vs white" from.

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ZenDrumming
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Re: Why should we become enlightened?

Post by ZenDrumming » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:47 pm

I actually feel a bit clearer after typing all of this out. Deep down I know these aren't questions that need to be asked. It would be ridiculous to expect an answer. I think I may just be hung up on the idea that my ego may not get the attention it desires.

I also realized that "should" was poor word choice in the subject line. "Should" and "shouldn't" don't exist.

Forgive me this moment of questioning 8)

hanss
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Re: Why should we become enlightened?

Post by hanss » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:05 am

ZenDrumming wrote:I actually feel a bit clearer after typing all of this out.
So... why not ask these kind of questions? Perhaps there are no answers but "dangerous" questions need to be asked? Else we will just follow what some guru says about should or shouldn't or hide behind our spiritual beliefs.
"In today's rush we all think too much, seek too much, want too much and forget about the joy of just Being."
(Eckhart Tolle)

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ZenDrumming
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Re: Why should we become enlightened?

Post by ZenDrumming » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:28 pm

It certainly is important to question everything.

abc123
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Re: Why should we become enlightened?

Post by abc123 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:48 pm

ZenDrumming wrote: I was talking with a friend last night about the shifting of perspective to direct experience. Direct experience would be, to me, the next step in our evolution of consciousness (if there is one). She made me realize, however, that I don't care if the rest of the world "wakes up". People are just fine living their human lives. If we shift too far away from ego, what's the point of being here in the first place? Enlightened human beings have little to say to each other. Pure awareness and direct experience have little use in a world in which we are simply players in the game of black vs. white.

T
Yes.
To be happy in the 'source' or 'now' and feel that is all that is needed is only a limiting perspective.
Questions need to be asked to yourself if you feel this is empty. It's a natural progression toward more growth of oneself.
The Path of Surrender which is talked about here (Tolle) is but only one. The Path of Service and The Path of Knowledge (Warriors path) are the others.
Thus to be a seeker of Knowledge and led to believe that all you need to do is Surrender to all that is may not be optimal for that person this time round. Being open to all paths and finding which one suits is the key.
We are primarily here to interact and make choices.
Listen, smile, interact and grow. We are learning in a toddlers playground.

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ZenDrumming
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Re: Why should we become enlightened?

Post by ZenDrumming » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:30 am

abc123 wrote:
ZenDrumming wrote: I was talking with a friend last night about the shifting of perspective to direct experience. Direct experience would be, to me, the next step in our evolution of consciousness (if there is one). She made me realize, however, that I don't care if the rest of the world "wakes up". People are just fine living their human lives. If we shift too far away from ego, what's the point of being here in the first place? Enlightened human beings have little to say to each other. Pure awareness and direct experience have little use in a world in which we are simply players in the game of black vs. white.

T
Yes.
To be happy in the 'source' or 'now' and feel that is all that is needed is only a limiting perspective.
Questions need to be asked to yourself if you feel this is empty. It's a natural progression toward more growth of oneself.
The Path of Surrender which is talked about here (Tolle) is but only one. The Path of Service and The Path of Knowledge (Warriors path) are the others.
Thus to be a seeker of Knowledge and led to believe that all you need to do is Surrender to all that is may not be optimal for that person this time round. Being open to all paths and finding which one suits is the key.
We are primarily here to interact and make choices.
Thank you. This makes a lot of sense. I suppose I had a pretty strong limiting belief formed about what Enlightenment is and how humans integrate it. Who am I to know what lies in waiting?

I guess it all does come down to what is presented to each of us. And our intuition.

Dan Millman came to mind when I read "Warrior's path". Do you have any teachers you would recommend for a slightly different approach?

abc123
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Re: Why should we become enlightened?

Post by abc123 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:12 pm

ZenDrumming wrote:

Thank you. This makes a lot of sense. I suppose I had a pretty strong limiting belief formed about what Enlightenment is and how humans integrate it. Who am I to know what lies in waiting?

I guess it all does come down to what is presented to each of us. And our intuition.

Dan Millman came to mind when I read "Warrior's path". Do you have any teachers you would recommend for a slightly different approach?

The Path of Knowledge involves you to actively gain experience to acquire wisdom. More suited to the western mind . Why are we here ? Why do paranormal things happen? What happens when you die? How does this reality function in a more logical explanation ? You do need to be more or less in the now but with a different intent.

Robert Monroe founder of The Monroe institute http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrLApcABHQw He wrote 3 books read them in order if you feel drawn.

Brain Weiss and his work is good http://www.brianweiss.com/thebooks.html#mlmm

Russell Targ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyuL9d70mPM

See if that is a starter for you :wink:
Listen, smile, interact and grow. We are learning in a toddlers playground.

randomguy
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Re: Why should we become enlightened?

Post by randomguy » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:40 pm

ZenDrumming wrote: Pure awareness and direct experience have little use in a world in which we are simply players in the game of black vs. white.
Seems to me the opposite. Pure awareness and direct experience are of primary and exclusive use in such a world because these are what will reveal that the world of players in a game of black vs white is not absolutely true in the way that a dream while sleeping at night is not absolutely true.
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho

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