Anger and a "quality no"

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SirNikalot
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Anger and a "quality no"

Post by SirNikalot » Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:43 pm

So I've been on spring break this last week from college, and I've been unemployed for a little while now. I guess this all gets under my dad's skin and he has now resorted to all types of personal attacks over issues that really aren't a big deal. For example, just the other day I left an empty container of pasta out on the kitchen table that I forgot to throw away. Now mind you, it takes 5 seconds to throw away this empty container, but rather than simply tossing it in the trash can, my dad decides to confront me as I'm peacefully watching my documentary on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict for a class and he proceeds to berate me by making all types of obscene comments that were really hurtful and over the top.

I realize that there are two "wrong" actions to take here. One is submitting to what he says and making myself a silent victim to his every whim without putting up much of a fight, which is what I used to do in the past, disguising it as the "peaceful" way of going about it. Another is putting up a fight and making a counter arguments for everything he has to say.

In a situation like this, where my dad's anger is really unpredictable, I feel I need to protect myself by giving a "quality no" or in this case a "quality "f*** off!" But I don't feel like constantly shielding myself is the right way to go about it either. What do you feel is the proper way of handling this type of situation?

snowheight
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Re: Anger and a "quality no"

Post by snowheight » Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:47 pm

Taking the 5 seconds would help also.
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

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Re: Anger and a "quality no"

Post by SirNikalot » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:34 am

I did take the 5 seconds to throw it away... I'm not some spoiled little brat bitching about how my dad makes me do chores around the house. I'm perfectly okay with taking out the trash, cleaning the bathroom, and doing chores around the house considering I don't do much to contribute financially (even though I have taken out multiple loans for them). But I do have a problem with being addressed as if I something less than human- I was hoping for some advice, or something, on that end.

snowheight
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Re: Anger and a "quality no"

Post by snowheight » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:46 am

SirNikalot wrote:I was hoping for some advice, or something, on that end.
The next time your father goes nuclear ... at that moment, observe any fear you might have. Look at him. Observe any anger you have about him. Don't back away from him. Don't respond to him. Just be aware of what he's doing and be aware of what's happening inside of yourself. Let him yell for as long as he wants. Observe any and all reaction inside of yourself ... but ... at least just for the next time it happens, don't act on any of it, because it seems like most of it will probably be negative. Think this through ahead ... what's the worse that can happen? Will he hit you? ... well, ok, if he might, how bad might he hurt you? ... If you do this, you might be surprised by the reaction.

From what you've written this sounds like it will be quite the challenge. I wish you strength in the endeavor.

When he's yelling he'll be using a lot of pronouns or derogatory versions of these ... ask yourself ... who is he referring to? That's the most important observation to make, but you have to stay calm and clear-headed while you do it. Don't provoke him into something just to try this ... believe me, that won't work.
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

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smiileyjen101
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Re: Anger and a "quality no"

Post by smiileyjen101 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:33 am

Rather than a quality 'no', how about a quality 'I'm sorry, I got sidetracked from putting the rubbish in the bin, I'll do it now.' (?)
Honest, direct and addressing the 'issue'

If you doubt it have a look at this - your words, but absolutely yes, switched around keeping your actions / response abilities to the fore rather than distracting with projections about your Dad's response abilities & actions -
Now mind you, it takes 5 seconds to throw away this empty container, but rather than simply tossing it in the trash can...I'm peacefully watching my documentary on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict for a class ...
:roll:
attacks over issues that really aren't a big deal
Recognise they may not be 'big' to you, but they must 'feel overwhelming' to your Dad - otherwise he wouldn't be responding overwhelmingly.

If we were to look at this as rising energies at work - there was an 'existing energy' of neglect and in essence disrespect of shared space and an abdication of response ability prior to your dad 'responding' to it and your counter responding, all in a wash of fear of being disrespected, taking offence and taking it personally, your response seems to be in like kind - feeling disrespected, taking offence and taking it personally.

It's not weak to take response ability for your actions, (or inactions)
and not wise to take responsibility for the actions of another.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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far_eastofwest
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Re: Anger and a "quality no"

Post by far_eastofwest » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:25 am

ditto to smiley jen...
and
one sentence i just love to hear from my kids, its just wonderful and filled with love...

"Is there anything you need help with mum??"

maybe you could try it on your dad....
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SirNikalot
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Re: Anger and a "quality no"

Post by SirNikalot » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:27 pm

Thank you all for the replies!

Your right Snowheight, I do have to maintain a clear head and lashing out in anger can result in me getting hit, pushed, or at worst kicked out of the house. But that's the very issue I'm having, I want to maintain a clear head without being overcome by anger. I want to express my anger in a way that isn't "over-the-top."

@Jen, what's with the :roll: face? FYI, the documentary was a very touching personal account of two mothers, a family, and a community who lost two daughters in a suicide bombing during a 17 year old girls martyrdom mission. It completely changed my perspective towards the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

And this is about taking responsibility here, Jen. Taking responsibility for my dignity and my boundaries, not about taking out a stupid piece of garbage.To say "Sorry dad, my fault your right and I'm wrong" in this situation is effectively saying "your right dad, I'm your bitch, and you can speak to me however you want. Your the alpha and I'm the beta."
"Is there anything you need help with mum??"
Your right about that, and I do say it to my mother and I can see immediately how much she appreciates it. But I just don't say it to my dad all the often, something about doing that is just...awkward. Maybe I'll give it a try though.

snowheight
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Re: Anger and a "quality no"

Post by snowheight » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:10 pm

SirNikalot wrote: I want to express my anger in a way that isn't "over-the-top."
This, to my ears, seems like an in intent that's been modulated by an awareness of it, that's great.

You might want to take this in steps, because the situation you've described sounds taxing and volatile. Perhaps for the first step, conquer your own fear, and get acquainted with your own conditioned reactions to your father's rage.

His abusive outbursts, your anger in response, these are all rooted firmly in fear. If you express your anger as a defense mechanism, a reaction to his temper, it's not something that will defuse the situation, and has the potential to escalate it.

First get acquainted with it all. Be the witness. Don't back down, don't retreat, don't say anything to try to appease him, but don't go on offense. Think of it as a fact-finding mission.

Best of luck with it.
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

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smiileyjen101
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Re: Anger and a "quality no"

Post by smiileyjen101 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:34 am

@Jen, what's with the face?
I'm a cheeky imp SirNik the :roll: face was kind of an impish '...oops.. missing the obvious here.'
Try not to take 'me' personally.
And this is about taking responsibility here, Jen
And then justification for your anger/fear and side stepping the 'cause' of your father's anger as 'not important'. As I mentioned before what is important to your father IS important to him. If he's expressing his emotions it's because it IS important to him. In some ways you are 'judge and jury' of what is important to another even though they are flat out telling you. You may be hearing him, but you're not really listening to what it is he's sharing with you. In fairness when we feel attacked our blood starts to overpump (flight or fight), it fills our ears with that sound instead of being able to filter through the emotions to the core message.

The core message here (imho) is son, please care about me and my feelings.
To say "Sorry dad, my fault your right and I'm wrong" in this situation is effectively saying "your right dad, I'm your bitch, and you can speak to me however you want. Your the alpha and I'm the beta."
It's not about right or wrong - it's about respect.
In order to receive respect you need to give it - create the atmosphere for it to grow. Disrespect has nowhere to go in an atmosphere of respect.

It's not about being anybody's bitch it's about behaving respectfully regardless of how others are behaving. That you are adding these emotive layers to the situation IS your response.
Your the alpha and I'm the beta."
If you need to pull out the who's got the bigger ... power base... go for it - it won't bring you and your dad into harmony or understanding and respecting each other's needs.

Do you want to be right or do you want to be in harmony?

From desiderata - "If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself."
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com

SirNikalot
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Re: Anger and a "quality no"

Post by SirNikalot » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:11 am

Thanks Snowheight, I think you understand where I'm coming from.
It's not about right or wrong - it's about respect.
In order to receive respect you need to give it - create the atmosphere for it to grow.
And in order to cultivate and emanate respect onto others, you must first engender a sense of self-respect, which is what I am inquiring about here in this thread.
It's not about being anybody's bitch it's about behaving respectfully regardless of how others are behaving.
If I had things my way, I would gladly concede to having my dad be the leader of the house, but the fact is that he's is not a fitful leader. And in me giving him a healthy dose of anger, its me letting HIM know that he's out of line. Your right, its not about either one of us asserting dominance over another, but it is about engendering an atmosphere for growth that is beneficial to both of us. I don't feel that passively apologizing will engender this type of environment, but that it will only prolong it, and its time for me to take a stand, but as snowheight said, in steps.
The core message here (imho) is son, please care about me and my feelings.
Maybe, but its masked behinds a string of non-sensical, irrational personal attacks that are directed towards me.

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smiileyjen101
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Re: Anger and a "quality no"

Post by smiileyjen101 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:43 am

I don't feel that passively apologizing will engender this type of environment,
SirNik - what did you mean by a 'quality no'?
I felt it to be - one with sincerity, clarity, openness and awareness - power-ful - yes?

It's why I said this -
Rather than a quality 'no', how about a quality 'I'm sorry, I got sidetracked from putting the rubbish in the bin, I'll do it now.' (?)
Honest, direct and addressing the 'issue'
I'm unlikely to suggest doing anything 'passively' - BE it wholeheartedly and you'll be amazed at the power of anything, including apologising for your part in a situation & correcting it.

As Snowy said -
His abusive outbursts, your anger in response, these are all rooted firmly in fear. If you express your anger as a defense mechanism, a reaction to his temper, it's not something that will defuse the situation, and has the potential to escalate it.
The suggestion I offered was a response in love - what would love do now?

How would you have handled it differently if it was your Mum that was upset and frustrated at the same situation?
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com

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Re: Anger and a "quality no"

Post by SirNikalot » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:19 am

By a "quality no" I meant opening up to the possibility of getting angry, with love. For some reason I've felt the spiritual community and I guess everyday secular life has made the two mutually exclusive. Lately I've realized that I've had porous boundaries and I feel I have let other people, including my dad, take advantage of that. Anger I feel is an appropriate reaction and protector of one's boundaries, which is why I am so focused on it here.

How would you have handled it differently if it was your Mum that was upset and frustrated at the same situation?
I would probably be confused if my mom approached me with the same reaction, as it would be out of character for her. I don't understand the point of this question though.

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smiileyjen101
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Re: Anger and a "quality no"

Post by smiileyjen101 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:31 am

The point of the question was that you are making an 'enemy' of your Dad's expression, not in context of this incident and the FACTS of it, but based on your sensitivities and stores of experience with him.

Had any other person other than your Dad reacted to your negligence (the facts) you 'may' have responded differently. What appears to be happening here is a 'building of a case' for your pain body to react to.
For some reason I've felt the spiritual community and I guess everyday secular life has made the two mutually exclusive. Lately I've realized that I've had porous boundaries and I feel I have let other people, including my dad, take advantage of that. Anger I feel is an appropriate reaction and protector of one's boundaries, which is why I am so focused on it here.
Now you are getting to the point of it.

Your fear is arising based on 'someone' being able to take something of you, away from you. And/or your self respect being tied to what other people think of you, or how they treat you. If you reflect on this and all the extraneous to the facts of the event 'false emotions appearing real' - and then ask yourself the neutral question - is it so?

Anger as an appropriate reaction and protector of one's boundaries merely states - 'no thank you.' It lasts no more than 15 seconds to consider whether you want to take something into you or not, and it is gone. The energy of 'no thank you' is firm, honest, non-combative, decisive.
In this instance - once you'd attended to the neglected task - including the solid and loving apology and putting the thing in the bin, having noticed if your dad was going beyond 'no thank you' in the situation, your response would be 'no thank you' to the 'accepting into you' of any additional ranting.

A simple 'It's done dad, and I apologised.'

The thing is a real 'quality' apology does not usually have to be reminded to a receiver - they 'get' it when it's delivered, by its resonance of sincerity - honesty is the highest form of love.

If your Dad's pain body has been ignited the way yours has, there may be more issues needing to be discussed - rationally, respectfully and honestly. If it's not the right time - if blood is pumping too loudly for either of you to hear the other it's not the right time to discuss it. Even my boss now accepts when I say 'I need 24 hours to think this through. Can we discuss it then?'
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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far_eastofwest
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Re: Anger and a "quality no"

Post by far_eastofwest » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:56 am

if one person is angry, 'standing up for yourself' and getting angry back isn't going to have the best outcome.
Once someone is angry, as smileyjen says, it takes awhile for the physiological reactions of the body to get back to a calm state, even if the cause of the anger is removed, the heart is still going fast, cortisol is pumping, digestion is stopped....

think of the situation - as dr phil says 'its NEVER about the pasta dish'... (or whatever the obvious problem appears to be)
you are sitting watching tv for study.
what did HE see.... you lounging around 'lazily' not even bothering to put a bowl away? or maybe he was hoping you'd have heated him up a bowl of pasta too? who knows.... this is the trouble when people have poor communication skills and relying on one emotion to cover all scenarios (anger).

my son learnt this at school about being bullied/conflicts/anger, Stand up, Stand down, or Stand over -

if you stand down ie, suck it up quietly, have a victim like posture, you are likely to get further bullying and it will escalate
if you stand over ie, stand up with threatening posture, use loud voice, swear threaten, they you are THE bully or if you do that back to the bully you may end up in a physical fight
If you stand up.... this is a middle ground, it is standing up to the other persons level when they bully, good posture and state calm and firmly that you don't like being yelled at etc, or that you find it disrespectful and have a consequence (maybe 'i'd likd us to finish this conversation in minimum half an hour and i will not respond to you until then)
(never remain on the couch or seated when someone is mad at you.... it brings out that bully).
it works for 12 yo's .... a variation of this may work with your dad????

:D
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Especially when there is no cat....

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Re: Anger and a "quality no"

Post by heidi » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:30 pm

I've found lately that when people are complaining, raging or whatever, the easiest way to deal is this: In a 4-part breath "take the elevator down" from your head to your heart. Open your heart. Breath slowly out in 4 parts, and while you are doing that send big love to the person, because obviously they are in pain, and in your case, SirNik, it appeared directed at you at the moment, or was it? This can all be done so silently, and while breathing out you are silently saying I Love You iloveyouiloveyou, to the other person, to yourself, and everyone else on the planet for that matter. So, it's not necessarily a quality no, it's a quality quality. :D
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