Why is there so much suffering in the world?

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traveler
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Why is there so much suffering in the world?

Post by traveler » Wed May 30, 2012 11:35 am

Hello my dear friends. I'm confused.
I was watching the trailer of a documentary entitled "Earthlings." http://www.earthlings.com/
The current treatment of animals disgusts me to no end. Other similar treatments are done to humans as well.

I simply don't understand why "God/Source" allows such a degree of suffering to exist. This is torture.
I can understand the existence and function of a healthy amount of pain and fear that causes us to move towards order and growth. such as the pain of guilt for not completing an important task; or the pain of feeling fat due to an improper diet/lack of exercise. But torture makes no sense to me.

I understand that the suffering on this planet is created by humans; however, if "God/Higher self" exists, then why does such torture exist in the first place? Why have I been given the ability and power to create torture at will? If "God" is really all-knowing, and a permutation of every possible possibility, then why hasn't this current reality been replaced with something that does not torture living beings to such a degree? Why is this acceptable to "god"?

I realize I'm coming from a place of "too much mind" in asking this question, but I don't like the idea of not being able to rationalize something so elementary. I don't want to base my faith in life/god on wishful thinking.

This question has been messing with my head lately. I don't feel the same trust and faith in this "higher self/god" anymore like i used to.

Thank you to everyone who took the time to read this. I'm grateful.
:)

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Re: Why is there so much suffering in the world?

Post by Golf » Thu May 31, 2012 5:12 pm

Definitely not an easy one but let me try...

Actually before we discuss it further, let's take a little detour. How do you feel when you are troubled by this? Upset? Doubtful?
We have "one" evil, the evil in the world. And there's another one... your upset about it. So now there's "two" evils!
Does this stop your mind for a second? :?:

I'm not denying the evil in the world, just trying to make you see, maybe you also create some evil for yourself? It's easier to deal with the evil in the world if you're calm and collected and not all upset and depressed about it. I know this is a bit "hard" to grasp but it might be helpful for start.
"If you're so smart, how come you're working at a gas station?"
-"It's a service station. We offer service, there is no higher purpose."
8)

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Re: Why is there so much suffering in the world?

Post by Webwanderer » Thu May 31, 2012 7:59 pm

Traveler, the greatest gift to us, we extensions of Source's own essential consciousness, is the gift of Source's own essential nature as ours. And one of the fundamental aspects of that nature is the freedom to choose between available options, which includes how we perceive any given conditions or happenings. Consider also that there is a fundamental aspect of unconditional love that we share in having the Nature of Source as our essential being. Then there is the reality that we have eternal life as an extension of Source's Own Being. And finally, consider that there is certainly a purpose behind the human experience which is a creation of Source's expanding Expression of life.

What I'm attempting here is to offer a perspective that is somewhat greater than the ordinary human-thought-constructed view on life; a view that sees through beliefs and conditioning that likely were not clearly attained.

There is available a greater, clearer view, that is better able to understand the answers to the very valid questions you ask. The fact that you ask them with integrity and a heartfelt desire to know is an opportunity for you to step up in your awakening consciousness. To do so you will need a greater perspective than the one from which you asked you questions. If you will consider deeply your true nature and being as described above, the understanding you seek is available.

Here's how I see it, but you must look for yourself from a greater perspective in order to truly see the relevance. People suffer because they do not understand their true nature. That includes both victim and assailant. As a 'victim', if you understand your true nature with a good degree of clarity, you also understand that what you know about self as an eternal conscious being whose essence is Love, is also true about everyone else, including assailants. And if it is not clear to the 'victim', and for that matter the victim's sympathizers, the judgment and condemnation of what is happening will only continue to bring them more pain than what would otherwise be present. Judgment and condemnation focuses the energy of resistance and separation.

However, the pain and suffering does have Greater Consciousness value. I'm not suggesting that one is doing a service by inflicting pain on another, but I am suggesting that nothing in the human experience is without an upside towards awakening to our true nature. And pain and suffering are inescapable guides and reminders of our being out of alignment.

Just as you are asking questions as to why such suffering exists, so too on some level are all such sufferers - both sympathetic and direct. And the more one asks such questions with a genuine desire to understand (and not just rhetorically), the closer one gets to the clarity that actually allows us to see. Unfortunately, it is all too common to ask questions that would relieve our suffering, while requiring the answers fit within an existing limited world view or perspective - a world view that can never support a clear understanding of the answers sufferers seek. So, suffering continues for awhile longer until the pain is sufficient to make one open up to possibilities beyond one's current view.

The good news is that we are eternal beings. And Source has a "no soul left behind" policy. So by the transition of death, or by a choice for present clarity, there will be an awakening where understanding transmutes our deepest concerns into the light of understanding. But in order to get to the desired understanding while still in human form, we must make peace with the way things are - regardless of appearances and our emotional outrage at what we may have judged to be wrong in the world. Only then will we be free enough to see beyond those appearances.

It's all good.

WW

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Re: Why is there so much suffering in the world?

Post by smiileyjen101 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:45 am

It seems that 'life', all forms of life on earth came from a huge explosion - wee bit violent dontcha think?

Or was it just changing form?

This is one of my favourite topics so forgive me if I ramble all over the place.

Change is the 'violence' that throws us into our future -
There are two definitions of 'violence'- 1. behaviour involving physical force 2. strength of emotion or of a (destructive) natural force - I've bracketted destructive because it's a judgement - our bodies break down and reform all the time as part of a natural force of regeneration, so does the Earth - bushfires are the bush's greatest ally in regeneration and promoting new growth, storms clean the air, crashing tides flow naturally in and out clawing out earth, changing the landscape, it's only perception that it's destructive.
webby said: Judgment and condemnation focuses the energy of resistance and separation.
Absolutely!!
Traveller said: The current treatment of animals disgusts me to no end. Other similar treatments are done to humans as well.
Your outrage focusses its own energy - what will you do with it? Public outrage has changed many many things for the better in our evolution when employed within awareness and love - public education of children who once worked as all but slaves, slavery itself, public executions etc etc.
Public outrage has made worse many many things when employed with ignorance and fear - wars, lynch mobs, persecution of minorities or those 'different' to ourselves, burning wise people at the stake.

'Suffering' as I view it entails angst in the distance between expectation and reality. In a natural sense those that build their houses on flood plains and are horrified when it floods are suffering in an unrealistic expectation. Those who view the situation realistically either build protections against the known risks, or accept the risks of their decisions.

When we apply this to how particular individual or organisations of people treat animals or other people we can also build in protections from the known risks once they are know to be a reality, to continue to suffer from the expectation that it 'shouldn't' happen is futile. Only with clarity can we move forward, only with love can we build better ways.
Why is this acceptable to "god"?
Because it's a reality (acceptance is the first step in conscious living)
and it allows the 'whole to grow in awareness out of ignorance and into clarity using the energy of love.

I'll post my favourite explanation of that below.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com

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Re: Why is there so much suffering in the world?

Post by smiileyjen101 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:49 am

The Little Soul and the Sun
This parable is taken from the book Conversations with God

Author: Neale Donald Walsch


Part 1

There once was a soul who knew itself to be the light. This was a new soul and so, anxious for experience.

"I am the light" it said. "I am the light"

Yet all the knowing of it and all the saying of it, could not substitute for the experience of it. And in the realm from which this soul emerged, there was nothing but the light. Every soul was grand and every soul was magnificent and every soul shone with the brilliance of God's awesome light. So the little soul was as a candle in the sun. In the midst of the grandest light, of which it was part, it could not see itself, nor experience itself as Who and What it really is.

Now it came to pass that this soul yearned and yearned to know itself. So great was it's yearning that God one day said, "Do you know little one, what you must do to satisfy this yearning of yours?"

"Oh, what, God? What? I'll do anything!" the little soul said.

"You must separate yourself from the rest of us" God answered, "and then you must call upon yourself the darkness"

"What is the darkness, o Holy One?" the little soul asked.

"That which you are not" God replied and the soul understood.

And so this the soul did, removing itself from the ' All ' going even unto another realm. And in this realm the soul had the power to call into it's experience all sorts of darkness. And this it did.

Yet in the midst of all the darkness did it cry out, "Father, Father, why hast thou forsaken me?"

God replied: "Even has have you, in your blackest times. Yet I have never forsaken you, but stand by you always, ready to remind you of Who You Really Are; ready always ready, to call you home.

Therefore be a light unto the darkness and curse it not. And forget not who you are in the moment of your encirclement by that which you are not. But do praise to the creation even as you seek to change it.

And know that what you do in the time of your greatest trial can be your greatest triumph.

For the experience you create is a statement of Who You Are - and Who You Want to Be.


Part 2

God said to the little soul, "You may choose to be any Part of God you wish to be. You are absolute divinity experiencing itself. What aspect of divinity do you now wish to experience as You?"

"You mean I have a choice", asked the little soul.

God answered, "Yes. You may choose to experience any aspect of divinity in, as and through you."

"Okay," said the little soul, "then I choose forgiveness. I want to experience myself as that aspect of God called complete forgiveness."

Well this created a little challenge, as you can imagine. There was no one to forgive. All God had created was perfection and love.

"No one to forgive?" asked the little soul, somewhat incredulously.

"No one," God repeated. "Look around you. Do you see any souls less than perfect, less wonderful than you?"

At this the little soul twirled around and was surprised to see himself surrounded by all the souls in heaven. They had come from far and wide throughout the kingdom, because they heard that the little soul was having an extraordinary conversation with God.

"I see none less perfect than I!" the little soul exclaimed. "Who, then, shall I have to forgive?"

Just then another soul stepped forward from the crowd.

"You may forgive me" said this friendly soul

"For what?" the little soul asked.

" I will come into your next physical lifetime and do something for you to forgive," replied the friendly soul.

"But what? What could you, a being of such perfect light do to make me want to forgive you?" the little soul wanted to know.

"Oh," smiled the friendly soul, "I'm sure we can think of something."

"But why would you want to do this?" The little soul could not figure out why a being of such perfection would want to slow down it's vibration so much that it could do something 'bad'.

"Simple," the friendly soul explained, "I would do it because I love you. You want to experience yourself as forgiving, don't you? Besides you've done the same for me."

"I have?" asked the little soul.

"Of course, don't you remember? We've been All of it, you and I. We've been the Up and the Down of it, and the Left and the Right of it. We've been the Here and the There of it, and the Now and the Then of it. We've been the Big and the Small of it, the Male and the Female of it and the Good and the Bad of it. We've been the All of it."

"And we've done it by agreement, so that each of us might experience ourselves as the grandest part of God. For we have understood that...

'In the absence of that which You Are Not, that which you Are, is Not'.

'In the absence of cold you cannot be warm, in the absence of sad you cannot be happy. Without a thing called evil, the experience you call good cannot exist'.

'If you choose to be a thing, something or someone opposite to that has to show up somewhere in your universe to make that possible.' "

The friendly soul then explained that those people are God's Special Angels and these conditions God's Gifts.

"I ask only one thing in return," the friendly soul declared.

"Anything, Anything," the little soul cried. He was excited now to know that he could experience every divine aspect of God. He understood now, The Plan.

"In the moment that I strike you and smite you," said the friendly soul, "in the moment that I do the worst to you that you could ever imagine - in that self same moment...remember Who I Really Am."

"Oh, I won’t forget!" promised the little soul. "I will see you in the perfection with which I hold you now, and I will remember Who You Are, always."
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com

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Re: Why is there so much suffering in the world?

Post by rideforever » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:20 pm

Anything that is not in unity with the almighty suffers. This is the foundation reason for 'suffering'.

But a unity does not have the 'opportunities' that this messy world does; perhaps this is why the 'world' exists.

As I have matured I have noticed that people like to suffer. Like to play games. Like to be a victim. Or to be the assailant. It happens at many levels of consciousness from the most superficial to the most sublime.

At a profound level we are playing a game of pretending we are not one with the almighty. But this game only goes on so long and then you will return ... most likely. Awakening. This life or the next.

Inside your gut digestion is happening, it is a war in there - many organisms are being destroyed each second. Same with your immune system, your white cells kill anything that gets in to the body. Supernova are blowing up all over the universe tearing apart vast vast areas of space.

Really, the question is not "why is there suffering", but, "now that I have noticed some problems with my understanding of existence, how do I approach life - do I bath in the suffering, do I pretend I can't see, do I get enlightened ?"

-----

Perhaps the problem is that the world is actually not like the Hollywood movies.

To find out what the world is you must investigate.

I have read that awakening (thoughtless awareness) is just one step ... and that actually there is no final destination because consciousness is evolving further and further ... and that the opportunity is to give birth to something new ... that as you are you cannot be connected to the almighty but a change must occur and then a new being enters and then it is possible.

-----

In other words, I have no idea. Suffering certainly isn't suffering. But what it is I don't know.
I was proud, and I demanded the finest teacher
.. .. and when he appeared
.. .. .. .. I was so small

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Re: Why is there so much suffering in the world?

Post by Bijster » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:18 pm

People are just out of order they have no sense of what is going on, that is the mean reason.
Why the Universe lets it happen is a good question, maybe they learn faster this way.

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Re: Why is there so much suffering in the world?

Post by HermitLoon » Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:00 pm

All "suffering" (whether experienced or observed) is caused by mental or physical attachment to the survival instinct - said attachment not "good" or "bad" but simply the way the script for the "story of life" goes.
Peace

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Re: Why is there so much suffering in the world?

Post by ashley72 » Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:53 pm

traveler wrote:I realize I'm coming from a place of "too much mind" in asking this question, but I don't like the idea of not being able to rationalize something so elementary. I don't want to base my faith in life/god on wishful thinking.
At the level of thinking mind, there are no answers...just more unanswered questions.

At the level of "attention" attending to itself, there are no questions.

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Re: Why is there so much suffering in the world?

Post by Ralph » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:50 pm

ashley72 wrote:
traveler wrote:I realize I'm coming from a place of "too much mind" in asking this question, but I don't like the idea of not being able to rationalize something so elementary. I don't want to base my faith in life/god on wishful thinking.
At the level of thinking mind, there are no answers...just more unanswered questions.

At the level of "attention" attending to itself, there are no questions.
in other words ... " use the mind to know the mind to get behind the mind " ... how else can you get there (here) if not by using the mind, is there another tool available to us that I am not aware of ? :roll:

hmm... but this does not answer the question of why is there so much suffering in the world ? :?

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Re: Why is there so much suffering in the world?

Post by karmarider » Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:35 pm

It's a very good question. The usual spiritual responses do not answer the question. The question is not how do I end my suffering, the question is why does suffering exist.

Yes, suffering is a choice, but why is it a choice? And why is it an unknown choice--that is why is it that most people do not know that there can be an end to suffering?

As far as I can tell, suffering is the causal effect of fear--it's part of the insanity caused by fear. Fear is the maya--the illusion, and suffering is motivation which can expose the illusion. But that doesn't answer the question about why it is so. Perhaps the question is like the question about free will. Perhaps it is ultimately unanswerable.

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Re: Why is there so much suffering in the world?

Post by Webwanderer » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:13 pm

Why is there so much suffering in the world?
The simple answer:

People suffer because they do not understand/perceive their true nature.

WW

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Re: Why is there so much suffering in the world?

Post by ashley72 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:09 am

Ralph wrote:
ashley72 wrote:
traveler wrote:I realize I'm coming from a place of "too much mind" in asking this question, but I don't like the idea of not being able to rationalize something so elementary. I don't want to base my faith in life/god on wishful thinking.
At the level of thinking mind, there are no answers...just more unanswered questions.

At the level of "attention" attending to itself, there are no questions.
in other words ... " use the mind to know the mind to get behind the mind " ... how else can you get there (here) if not by using the mind, is there another tool available to us that I am not aware of ? :roll:
When the thinking mind wants to reduce suffering, it plans to do it in the future. In this way, suffering is prolonged indefinitely because there will always be a future in which to reduce the suffering. The only way suffering can end is for it to happen now. 

The thinking mind is like a level of abstraction... an Augmented Reality. Augmented reality changes what we attend to, but not the way we attend to the thinking mind.

Augmented Reality changes the way its user sees the world. Picture yourself walking or driving down the street. With augmented-reality displays, which will eventually look much like a normal pair of glasses, informative graphics will appear in your field of view, and audio will coincide with whatever you see. These enhancements will be refreshed continually to reflect the movements of your head. This is what the thinking mind is like... an augmented reality. It can add the concept of Future & Past to Reality. It also adds the concept of a separate individuals in a world with other separate individuals. It continually labels and make judgements about what is happening in the NOW. But our attentive nature is primary, its not part of the augmented Reality, it attends to the augmented reality. When attention attends to itself, it doesn't get augmented... Attention is like an inviolated level. It is beyond the augmented level.


Augmented Reality on an iPhone

Image

Augmented Reality continually labels & judges the NOW.

Image

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Re: Why is there so much suffering in the world?

Post by mhtan » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:49 pm


mhtan
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Re: Why is there so much suffering in the world?

Post by mhtan » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:26 pm

Hi,

Some pertinent quotes that i have, hope it helps


True freedom and the end of suffering is living in such a way as if you had completely chosen whatever you feel or experience at this moment. This inner alignment with Now is the end of suffering. Is suffering really necessary? Yes and no. If you had not suffered as you have, there would be no depth to you as a human being, no humility, no compassion. You would not be reading this now. Suffering cracks open the shell of ego, and then comes a point when it has served its purpose. Suffering is necessary until you realize it is unnecessary. ~ E. Tolle

I want this, I want that. I dislike this, I like that. If you remove this switch... of like and dislike, how will you feel? Instantly you will be free. Likes and dislikes keep you in bondage and suffering.People don’t fully desire freedom. How many people desire freedom? I tell you that you are already free and you don’t accept it. You wan to do something. Freedom doesn’t need any effort. Other things may need effort. Freedom is free. Free of your efforts.
I have to laugh sometimes because I see fish in the river crying, “I am thirsty.” “I want enlightenment” is the same thing.
Poonjaji (Papaji)

It seems that most people need to experience a great deal of suffering before they will relinquish resistance and accept — before they will forgive. As soon as they do, one of the greatest miracles happens: the awakening of Being-consciousness through what appears as evil, the transmutation of suffering into inner peace. The ultimate effect of all the evil and suffering in the world is that it will force humans into realizing who they are beyond name and form. Thus, what we perceive as evil from our limited perspective is actually part of the higher good that has no opposite. This, however, does not become true for you except through forgiveness. Until that happens, evil has not been redeemed and therefore remains evil. ~ E. Tolle

The way I see it, understanding comes to us as a gift from our Highest or God Self, usually after a spell of suffering. The more intense it has been, the greater the understanding. Without suffering no understanding can be found on the Earth plane. Via Aquarius, ET Discussion Forum

‎"You teach through being, through demonstrating the peace of God. You become the “light of the world,” an emanation of pure consciousness and so you eliminate suffering on the level of cause. You eliminate unconsciousness from the world." ~ Eckhart Tolle

If you want to awaken all of humanity, then awaken all of yourself, if you want to eliminate the suffering in the world, then eliminate all that is dark and negative in yourself. Truly, the greatest figt you have to give is that of your own self-transformation." ~ Lao Tzu

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