Play, Puppets and The Master

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
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guptaabhi
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Play, Puppets and The Master

Post by guptaabhi » Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:39 pm

Hi, I have a question regarding whether any effort is required for enlightenment or not.

Basis of this question comes from a beautiful sanskrit shalok that translates into:

That is whole; this is whole;
From that whole this whole came;
From that whole, this whole removed,
What remains is whole.

Digging deep into most profound four lines I ever read, I am beginning to believe that this material world is manifestation of The Consciousness and we, humans, are confused entities who have forgotten about their real identity as That Consciousness. This seems to be reflected in many of the teachings of Eckhart as well.

Extrapolating this thought further, it seems that physical manifestation of consciousness, this world, is trying to guide, consciousness in me or us to awaken. Part of the play it seems. If yes, How does "my" effort towards enlightenment has anything to do my path towards enlightenment. My identity as a mind is anyhow temporary and My real identity is Master and the Puppets both; so shouldn't I just wait for the Master to decide to awaken itself.

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kiki
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Re: Play, Puppets and The Master

Post by kiki » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:08 pm

Effort towards enlightenment reaches its fulfillment when it's realized no effort is required. That's the script being played out between master and puppet, so the realization of no effort required is the paradoxical climax of that play.

By the way, welcome to the board.

kiki
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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guptaabhi
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Re: Play, Puppets and The Master

Post by guptaabhi » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:16 pm

Simple Beautiful Wisdom.. Thanks Kilki.

"Effort towards enlightenment reaches its fulfillment when it's realized no effort is required."

arel
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Re: Play, Puppets and The Master

Post by arel » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:23 pm

There are people who suggest practices and techniques to realize one's true nature and then there are others that say to stop all that.

I believe first come practices, and then dropping of the practices. When one has a glimpse of their true identity is seems like there is a tendency of it not being enough, which is a movement we call ego. It's a seductive little sucker. So even if the awakening happened, ego comes back, and what it does is it searches for more, of something. And what or why doesn't matter, it's just the Search and Fear is its nature.

So for that Search and Fear (the Puppet) the remedy is to "stop all effort". But if the realization of the mistaken identity and the true identity has not happened then the practices, effort, are useful. Presence, mindfulness, contemplating on texts, etc etc can be useful, or more accurately, was/is useful to me. Well and suffering helps a lot too.

So the effort is of the domain of the Puppet and the decision to not have effort is also of Puppet, but only relatively, because the Puppet is non existent without the Master, but the Master needs nothing, simply through all the silly play ends up realizing itself through the play of the Puppet, when the Puppet stops talking and going nuts as it does, which what Puppets do. :)
What I say is only my viewpoint.

guptaabhi
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Re: Play, Puppets and The Master

Post by guptaabhi » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:40 pm

I guess, as Kiki suggested, once we realize that Puppets is no separate from the Master and this play is no different from the Master either... and that Everything is complete eternally... You wait.. Fully Alert.. To enlighten your self :)

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Re: Play, Puppets and The Master

Post by karmarider » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:30 pm

arel wrote:There are people who suggest practices and techniques to realize one's true nature and then there are others that say to stop all that.

I believe first come practices, and then dropping of the practices...So for that Search and Fear (the Puppet) the remedy is to "stop all effort"...So the effort is of the domain of the Puppet and the decision to not have effort is also of Puppet....
It's hard to say with any kind of certainty what really works for any particular person. I was seeking for several years and then I was not. While I was seeking, I couldn't possibly have stopped. So that would be consistent with what you are saying.

However, there others who say that the seeking is part of the insanity caused by fear. This is plausible as well. And if this the case, then addressing the fear directly might mean that people don't have to go through the seeking cycle.
Last edited by karmarider on Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Play, Puppets and The Master

Post by karmarider » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:34 pm

guptaabhi wrote:I guess, as Kiki suggested, once we realize that Puppets is no separate from the Master and this play is no different from the Master either... and that Everything is complete eternally... You wait.. Fully Alert.. To enlighten your self :)
What is said is that we really don't have any control over enlightenment. I agree with that. I would go further and say that we don't even know what enlightenment is. We have our ideas about it of course. Thousands of them.

Since I don't know what it really is, it's not a goal. My goal is just to be natural, to enjoy this human life without resistance and insanity of fear. That's an achievable objective, and in that clear space everything is allowed.

And welcome to the forum!

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Re: Play, Puppets and The Master

Post by Ralph » Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:46 am

guptaabhi wrote: My identity as a mind is anyhow temporary and My real identity is Master and the Puppets both; so shouldn't I just wait for the Master to decide to awaken itself.
... you can say that the Puppet is the Master in disguise .. the one that is waiting for the Master to awaken itself must also awaken as they are both One and the same.

Once this is realized, then the game of Master and puppets is no longer played .
Last edited by Ralph on Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Play, Puppets and The Master

Post by Ralph » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:09 am

guptaabhi wrote:How does "my" effort towards enlightenment has anything to do my path towards enlightenment.
How will you find this out without using 'your' effort ? ... so, I recommend you use 'your' effort to find this out.

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