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negative thoughts

Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:06 pm
by cloud
Hello,

I have been practicing eckharts techniques now for a while, although recently i have been having negatives thoughts about life. when they arise i don't react or judge them and they do fade away but still return in regular intervals, when not 100% present it is easy to try and judge them in a way to remove them. I have read eckhart and krishnamurti and understand their point that the thing trying to remove the thought is the same thing that is creating it! And responding to a thought just provides it more energy to return. Eckharts teaching gives me pointers but he also mentions that the person seeking for these thoughts to be removed will not achieve this under the seeker has been dissolved.

If anyone has had any experience of this or any pointer it would be greatly greatly appreciated!

Re: negative thoughts

Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:27 pm
by tod
Hi Cloud. I wonder if there is an unnoticed generally negative attitude there at times, however subtle, that can start propagating negativity onto whatever comes into view?

I have found it beneficial to be aware of this.

Re: negative thoughts

Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:01 am
by Ralph
Hello cloud,
This is a good place to be. You see, the seeker itself has to be investigated. Negative thoughts only have energy because the one having the negative thoughts energies them. So, I suggest that instead of losing yourself in thoughts , investigate the one that is having the negative thoughts and then perhaps , it may occur to you that the seeker itself is also a thought.

This is what I think Eckhart and Krishnamurti are saying and if I may add, what Mooji is also saying. These are different teachers pointing to the same truth.

" As soon as the 'seeker' is seen to be a mere thought arising in Awareness, he merges into Awareness and the spell of separation is broken. The seeker doesn't become a Finder. The 'seeker' ceases becoming and merges in the absolute Awareness ".
~ Mooji

Re: negative thoughts

Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:51 am
by cloud
Hi tod - I will pay more attention next time to see if there is any subtle negativity there even before the thought arrives in the mind. Most the time they appear out of the blue and from there i give them space with no response. Is there also a paradox in me discussing this on the forum? I guess this could also show that i am still providing energy to these thoughts (attachment through constant search of a resolution?).

Hi Ralph - I understand the seeker is being the seeked, but have not yet 'seen' this. I feel like the more pointers that i read the more difficult it will be to actually see this (clouded by concepts).On another level i went through months of just watching the thoughts with no judgment or reaction and noticed that they would arrive more frequently at certain times but the difficulty is not being able to see an end to them - they catch me out (and i judge them) often when i am not present, unless i can keep an infinite level of constant presence they wont dissolve?

thanks for the feedback, much appreciated.

Re: negative thoughts

Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:46 pm
by karmarider
Tolle also says, as does Krishnamurti, the basis of all negative thought is fear.
What is needed, rather than running away or controlling or suppressing or any other resistance, is understanding fear; that means, watch it, learn about it, come directly into contact with it. We are to learn about fear, not how to escape from it. JK
I think one of the clearest voices on fear is John Sherman.

Re: negative thoughts

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:23 am
by ashley72
cloud wrote:Hello,

I have been practicing eckharts techniques now for a while, although recently i have been having negatives thoughts about life. when they arise i don't react or judge them and they do fade away but still return in regular intervals, when not 100% present it is easy to try and judge them in a way to remove them. I have read eckhart and krishnamurti and understand their point that the thing trying to remove the thought is the same thing that is creating it! And responding to a thought just provides it more energy to return. Eckharts teaching gives me pointers but he also mentions that the person seeking for these thoughts to be removed will not achieve this under the seeker has been dissolved.

If anyone has had any experience of this or any pointer it would be greatly greatly appreciated!
The more you try and resist a negative thought or intrusive thought the more persistent it will become... "what you resist persists".

I experienced intrusive thoughts triggered by external stimuli in the past, which use to trigger an Amygdala response in me. I then tried to avoid the thought by using a safety behavior. The next time the thought arose, my Amygdala reacted automatically and anxiety arose immediately. This can cause a panic cycle.

An example is I started to fear knives. The thought arose that it can hurt me or someone else. I started to worry that I was even thinking theses thoughts... "Dangerous" thoughts.... Boom the Amygdala reacted and I started using safety behaviors to try and avoid knives. Every time I went to get a knife and fork to eat, Boom the Amygdala react with unpleasant sensations. This caused me to apply more safety behaviors, like not thinking about the knife or looking at it.... Even getting very blunt knives instead of sharp ones. It was a vicious cycle. I eventually kept exposing myself to the knives and staying with them until the unpleasant sensations disappeared... So did the intrusive thoughts eventually going away completely after a few months. :wink:

During this time, I also started fearing drinking glasses. As I had an intrusive thought it could break and cut me or someone else near me. I also treated this as "dangerous". Boom the Amygdala reacted and I was having the same physical reaction as with knives. This was happening because of operant and classical learned conditioning.... And the fact my Amygdala was very sensitive to my "dangerous" thinking patterns.

Re: negative thoughts

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:58 am
by ashley72
In this video link Charles Linden discusses the typical symptoms of anxiety due to the Amygdala or fight/flight response. He also talks about inappropriate or intrusive thoughts in great detail.... Good addition to this thread.

http://youtu.be/AieDuVKSda0

Re: negative thoughts

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:49 am
by cloud
Hi Ashley - Thanks for the comments. I have actually just read through the linden method. The guidance he actually provides contradicts a lot of what eckhart says. For example he say the key to removing negative thoughts (caused by anxiety) is by 'divertion' i.e creating a distraction from your thoughts, he also goes onto to say if you have anxious feelings, listen to music loud while walking in the park.

From what i gather his way of 'removing' anxiety is through distraction and basically pushing these thoughts away.

Re: negative thoughts

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:22 pm
by ashley72
cloud wrote:Hi Ashley - Thanks for the comments. I have actually just read through the linden method. The guidance he actually provides contradicts a lot of what eckhart says. For example he say the key to removing negative thoughts (caused by anxiety) is by 'divertion' i.e creating a distraction from your thoughts, he also goes onto to say if you have anxious feelings, listen to music loud while walking in the park.

From what i gather his way of 'removing' anxiety is through distraction and basically pushing these thoughts away.
I haven't read all of Charles Lindens stuff, but I'm led to believe he teaches you to divert your attention towards things external to self monitoring. So your attention is focused on positive or neutral things in the moment, rather than negative things that trigger the "danger" signal. I'd been surprised if he's promoting "pushing" thoughts away. I'd certainly don't interpret that from what I've read so far.

In contrast, Tolle's inner body awareness is a self monitoring practice which can actually make anxiety symptoms worse for anxiety sufferers during an attack. Particular if they label those sensations as "danger" or threatening.

You might find this article interesting

http://www.enetmd.com/content/using-dis ... at-anxiety