For a simple concept this all sounds so complicated

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heretoask
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For a simple concept this all sounds so complicated

Post by heretoask » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:47 pm

Hello,

I have been a fan and avid reader and listener of Eckhart Tolle's books and cd's from the beginning of his commercial success.

His message is fairly simple, yet there are 100's of books and cd's, comments, talks and reminders, perspectives and everything by him and other people to the point where I am wondering if this whole Power of Now concept is just another ego concept and is more a point of discussion than a solution to our needs.

What I mean is that if the concept or practice of the Power of Now as a solution to mankind's problems is so simple and accessible right now etc.. then why are we still talking about it ?

Why has it become a multi million dollar career for Eckhart and why are there still so many questions without answers and people without the feeling of the now?

I mean I understand what Eckahart is saying with it all. Blank your mind... don't attach to thoughts... accept what is

BUT I really think that the reason Eckhart is able to do all this and not query himself is because he simply doesn't have to live in the real world with us.

He states that he was enlightened over night without even having to do all the hard work and understanding that we now have to do, so how does he even know how it feels to be us and try to understand his concept? Is he even a good teacher if so many of his students (people like us) still have questions and don't really know how to practice this concept of now?

He doesn't have to work 9-5 and maybe he never did.
He doesn't have children, doesn't have to walk down dangerous streets at night to get home, doesn't have to be a teenage boy fighting for his life at school (while trying to be present), doesn't have to go through adolescence or loss or loneliness because he has everything an extremely privileged person has. A massive house near the Pacific Spirit National Park in Vancouver (one of the world's most expensive cities), a nice new car, a wife who lets him ramble on and agrees with him, no children, no parents to look after basically a rockstar bachelor living the high life. lol.

Now I know in his interviews he says that money and material objects are nice to have but not necessary, but that doesn't fly with me when he has mentally chosen the nicest place in Vancouver to reside and a lifestyle of leisure. He was doing conferences in Europe recently and another in San Fran for at least $100 a ticket. How does that help the homeless, low income or geographically isolated people of his home town of Vancouver or any one else in the world for that matter. I can read one of his books? Sure at full price. CD's - full price. 'Free' videos on his site? nope - marketing snippets of paid videos that you can't find anywhere else unless you PAY a lot of money to subscribe to. I mean people upload his videos to youtube but that is out of his control.

I like the way he is caring about people and tries to help us and I am not attacking his values or person, but rather just trying to see if I am the only one who thinks this way and if anyone is as confused about him as I am.

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rideforever
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Re: For a simple concept this all sounds so complicated

Post by rideforever » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:14 pm

Life is short don't waste it.

Osho (for spiritual guidance)
http://pirateproxy.ca/torrent/5150464/O ... ed_Nov2009

Vereshack (for emotional pain)
http://www.paulvereshack.com/

Anadi (for deep meditation)
http://www.anaditeaching.com/

Goenka (for mindfulness meditation)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8g0Qteo ... 764C731B4C
I was proud, and I demanded the finest teacher
.. .. and when he appeared
.. .. .. .. I was so small

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Webwanderer
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Re: For a simple concept this all sounds so complicated

Post by Webwanderer » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:30 pm

heretoask wrote:I like the way he is caring about people and tries to help us and I am not attacking his values or person, but rather just trying to see if I am the only one who thinks this way and if anyone is as confused about him as I am.
Lots of people think the way you do. It seems such a waste of time and energy to worry about such matters.

What Tolle does or doesn't do has no effect on your own awakening and appreciation of life - unless you make it a concern that distracts you from what is truly valuable. Tolle can do nothing for you greater than pointing to what he sees and has gotten him to where he's at now. So what if he makes money at it. He's not stealing it. People purchase his teachings willfully.

If his offerings helps you gain clarity and understanding, use them to your advantage. If you get lost in concerns and judgments on Tolle's lifestyle, maybe it's time to find another source of insight. There are plenty of teachings from plenty of teachers that offer valuable insights into the nature of being and consciousness expansion. It is your own inner guidance however, that is the only one that will bring you true freedom. All the best teachers, including Tolle, encourage this inner connection. Make this inner guide your primary search and you will eventually have little concern for what 'teachers' do in their personal lives.

WW

heretoask
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Re: For a simple concept this all sounds so complicated

Post by heretoask » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:33 pm

@Webwanderer

Thank you for the reply. I like what you say about finding other teachers that resinate more with me or that can teach me in a different way that seems to sink in more effectively.

I guess I am also not that hung up about his personal life and material collections but rather how a simple teaching can be so complicated and discussed instead of simply understood or practiced effectively.

I guess I can not gauge how many people benefit or understand his teaching and I also presume that it is of no consequence how many people he becomes an insight for.

What I do know is tat he has a very strong opinion and I guess I get hung up wanting to understand or rather experience his mental state but find it difficult as he always seems to talk cryptically like an advertisement that almost tells you the price of the item... "but wait, there's more".

HAHA It's like there is no actually point or experience and maybe he simply had a mind panic attack and then felt a wave of calm afterwards and translated it into a concept that he keeps talking and talking about.

anyway, I really do like the game of listening to him talk and it does make me feel like there is hope even if I can't quite grasp the exercises or mind state that he talks about in order to experience the oneness with all things.

I do understand how to clear my mind and I don't think we would all be sane or alive if we couldn't. I do not know how to feel my body as it doesn't feel anything so I can not feel 'vibrations' etc that he talks about and quite frankly I don't think I would want to as it would be a little un-nerving to do so lol.
I also don't seem to benefit that much in the way of my life becoming simple or finding answers or receiving all the amazing benefits of his result to blanking the mind out. I blank my mind out and just 'be' with the world around me and in me, whatever, and I feel ok and calm and my mind slows a lot and I disregard thoughts etc for the 20 mins that I am doing this for. Then afterwards I try and keep this state of mind as I go about my business of surviving without being a billionaire and I really don't seem to benefit that much which is why i guess I really don't get it.

I love the comedy of trying and I am a happy person off my own back before all this so I am not in a desperate battle to find peace, I was just very curious and never really understood or experienced what Eckhart talks about. Maybe if he did more guided exercised rather than talking concepts all the time would be awesome. Maybe he doesn't know how to teach something that came to him over night. I don't know.

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Re: For a simple concept this all sounds so complicated

Post by peas » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:10 pm

Our sticking points can guide us, probably more than anything else.

Do you feel stuck by these matters? Where does the reaction come from?

Use this as an opportunity to go deeper into your own experience. This is the crucible of life. Negativity burns up in the fire. Only purity remains.

It's truly a gift.

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Re: For a simple concept this all sounds so complicated

Post by smiileyjen101 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:36 pm

What I mean is that if the concept or practice of the Power of Now as a solution to mankind's problems is so simple and accessible right now etc.. then why are we still talking about it ?
(?) No choice is wrong hereto, you already know that any time you like you can return to presence and silence these concerns, or you can bring presence into our discussing and enjoy it.
Blank your mind... don't attach to thoughts... accept what is
I have been a fan and avid reader and listener of Eckhart Tolle's books and cd's from the beginning of his commercial success
So are you saying you didn't hear about his methods and story while he was homeless, unemployed, penniless, sitting on a park bench, sleeping on friends' couches and discussing his ideas only with close friends? hmmm...wonder why not? :wink:

Next time you see someone doing it tough do you think you might even wonder what wisdoms they might be discovering?
Why has it become a multi million dollar career for Eckhart
(?) because ET DOES live in the real world and where he does live the economy is based on capitalism - where people do pay money for goods and services that others produce, people do profit from their endeavours if there is demand for them, and people liked his goods and services and bought them, became 'fans' and wanted 'more' reminders, and so he (and others who invested in his goods and services or supplied him with goods and services) became a 'commercial success'.

Sincerely would it occur to you to go have a conversation with a stranger about the suffering in the world?
Would you have bothered to sit with ET on a park bench all day in silence and think that he had anything special to teach you if it had not been 'commercially marketed'?

why are there still so many questions without answers and people without the feeling of the now?
You'd be able to answer that your self... you are the one creating the 'many questions' ... it's a self feeding thing isn't it - outside of the now there are all these questions without answers - within the now there are no questions only isness, and all that is, is known.

More questions that you can answer might be -
Are you aware when you step outside of the present moment?
Are you able to bring presence with you into discussions?
Is there fear or love in your questioning?


It's not ET that has created any peace that you may have felt reading his work in presence, nor has he created this angst in questions of why oh why am I not magically happy, and why oh why is there so much suffering in the world.... you are - you are creating your experience.

The funny thing is the 'love' that a 'fan' might have for someone is of the conditional sort that eventually falls to fear, because it's based on external things and 'what's in it for me?' notions. ET discusses this hot-cold love in his work, you may have read about it.

This conditional love is the sort that is enamoured with another thinking the other is going to bring them joy and happiness and make them a better person blah blah blah - and it is not true. When one realises that it's not true they start to look for the 'fault' in the object of their admiring.


The step beyond hearing / reading / seeing / 'knowing' a thing, is applying it.

ET is not going to save or change your life or bring you any peace - he's only sharing how he saved and changed his own life and brought peace into it - you are going to have to do the applying of the knowledge yourself - he can't do it for you or for anyone else.

This is true of anyone/thing.

btw, we don't all come via the commercial marketing path and we don't all think he's the best thing since sliced bread - his message is not original, it's just his experience of it and sharing of wisdoms - wisdom is knowledge, gained in experience and implemented in love' (Traci Harding)


For instance, I came to hear of ET's work through a friend who called me and said they were reading ANE and it was awesome and I HAD to read it as it discussed many things we had discussed over a long friendship. (an enthusiastic recommendation from a trusted friend) I borrowed ET's books from the library, many times and the only cost was fees if I was late in returning them.

The discussions we hold are sharing our questions, knowledge and experiences - and apart from contributions we might make to maintain the site, it is free, and ET as far as I am aware does not profit from it. So you can relax and settle in - welcome to the discussions heretoask :D
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com

heretoask
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Re: For a simple concept this all sounds so complicated

Post by heretoask » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:10 am

Thank you very much for everyone contributing to this thread.

I am learning so much in such a broad spectrum.

It is great to hear otter peoples point of views and as much as I would love to reply to everything people are writing specifically and generally I think I would rather avoid the microscopic rebuttals and just let people answer as they want.

I really appreciate and value all your time and care to reply to my questioning and I am enjoying and benefiting from the positive, caring and insightful answers as well as being misinterpreted, misread and categorised.

This is all part of human communication.

Thank you again and I am looking forward to reading more insights.
Last edited by heretoask on Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: For a simple concept this all sounds so complicated

Post by Sighclone » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:19 am

Due to YouTube and used bookstores, the fundamental teachings, including used CDs of Eckhart Tolle are available to everyone on the planet for less than $25...and a used copy of PON can be found for less than $5.

If that were not true, then complaints about his income stream, house size, lifestyle, etc. might have some merit.

Warren Buffet has pledged recently to donate 99% of his net worth to charity. Who knows what Eckhart will do? Do you?

Were there employees who benefitted from building Eckhart's house? Should those on his payroll be asked to resign, because a critic appears either envious or resentful about Eckhart's cashflow?

If a person has a valuable spiritual message, why is the real merit of that message inversely related to his income?

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: For a simple concept this all sounds so complicated

Post by ashley72 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:41 am

Wealth or at a minimum financial assistance is required to live comfortably in any modern society, so it would be counter-productive for any individual not to pursue personal wealth at every opportunity... including a spiritual teacher.

The other point I'd make, is ET's teaching is primarily a self-help guide about how to end the experience of unpleasantness and aversion associated with the perception of harm or threat of harm in an individual.

I was the perfect candidate to benefit from ET's self-help guide.

I suffered from the full spectrum of mental illness which his book PON seem to cater for.... GAD, PD, SAD, AGORA & OCD.

But as it turn out, his teachings didn't assist me much in a practical way, and in some ways were even counter-productive.

Eventually, I realised the medicine I needed to take was "exposure therapy".... and ET doesn't really emphasize the need for exposure therapy in order to recovery from the anxiety spectrum.

I also needed to be taught how "the anxiety trick" works, whereby the sufferer treats non-threatening things/situations as "dangerous"... which can lead to a chain-reaction of chronic & paralysing anxiety.

But not all of ET's work is unhelpful, his characterisation's of ego tendencies seems accurate.

heretoask
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Re: For a simple concept this all sounds so complicated

Post by heretoask » Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:20 am

Looks like this thread is dwindling.

Thanks everyone for their comments and ideas.

PON = Power of Now.

Andy:

Due to YouTube and used bookstores, the fundamental teachings, including used CDs of Eckhart Tolle are available to everyone on the planet for less than $25...and a used copy of PON can be found for less than $5.

- I agree. Thanks to everyone at youtube and used bookstores that facilitate second hand selling unlike our friend ET who sells brand new for a premium price.


If that were not true, then complaints about his income stream, house size, lifestyle, etc. might have some merit.

- I guess they do have merit since my facts are true.


Warren Buffet has pledged recently to donate 99% of his net worth to charity. Who knows what Eckhart will do? Do you?

- no one can see into the future but currently at this time in the present, lol, ET hasn't been sited to make these sort of pledges. To be honest that is not even my point. It is not about how much ET gives to charity, it is more about how he doesn't take a bucket load of cash from the community in the first place to 'help' people with his refurbished concepts.


Were there employees who benefitted from building Eckhart's house?

- you mean the builders? of course. Builders make extremely outrageous margins.


Should those on his payroll be asked to resign, because a critic appears either envious or resentful about Eckhart's cash-flow?

- maybe a critic appears envious to someone who doesn't have the capacity to understand the critics point. I am not envious of his money since you do not know how wealthy I am and never once suggested that. Why would his employees be asked to resign? What are you even asking here? haha. wtf.


If a person has a valuable spiritual message, why is the real merit of that message inversely related to his income?

- The message is only valuable to those that can afford to hear it. boom.

Andy - for a moderator of a PON site you seem a little intensely passive aggressive. Did your extortionate subscription to ET's site expire?
I am passive agressive I know, but I am not willing to pay so much for this amazing wisdom, so I can't afford to be enlightened.

I won't be monitoring this thread anymore, so thank you to all the contributors. I really enjoyed reading your remarks and I have satisfied my confusion with a solid understanding of this whole ET, PON affects people. It was an interesting journey. Thank you.

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Re: For a simple concept this all sounds so complicated

Post by Onceler » Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:29 pm

heretoask wrote:
His message is fairly simple, yet there are 100's of books and cd's, comments, talks and reminders, perspectives and everything by him and other people to the point where I am wondering if this whole Power of Now concept is just another ego concept and is more a point of discussion than a solution to our needs.
I believe your observation about the simplicity if his message is the most important part of your post. It is simple, mind blowingly simple.....but, as humans are prone to do, he (we) have made it complicated. Hence the books, CDs, appearances, etc.

Another problem with Tolle's message/method is that it doesn't work. In my opinion, he is reverse engineering spirituality. He is confusing the by products of awakening with the method needed to attain awakening.....being present, less thought, equanimity, being in the now, etc. His awakening happened spontaneously, so he never figured out how to communicate the method to attain awakening. There was no method. Trying to achieve awakening by practicing the by products of awakening is a very stress/frustration inducing, ultimately pointless, experience. Despite this, some stumble upon the catalyst, or, like me, it leads to other routes for awakening.

Tolle is brilliant at simplifying the message and inducing the search and has started an important conversation in the modern world. John Sherman's method finished the job for me. My suffering and seeking is winding down and I am experiencing what Tolle so convincingly describes as the path to awakening, but which I would describe as the by products. Others on this forum have found different routes after being deeply motivated and moved by Tolle's message.

So, I believe your observation of the industry of Tolle is an apt one and speaks to an amazing ability to describe the awakened life, but an inability to say how to get there. If it doesn't work, say more of the same in slightly different ways.

Perhaps I've stated this too strongly.....and I could be very wrong! Just my experience, although I suspect it's the experience of others as well....
Be present, be pleasant.

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Re: For a simple concept this all sounds so complicated

Post by Sighclone » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:06 pm

onceler -

Wise observation about ET's stronger skill at expressing Presence and weaker ability to pave the road to awakening. I think that after PON and ANE, his publishers and readers requested "methods to get there," resulting in "Practicing the Power of Now," and the CD "Gateways to Now." Both are OK, but basically are spin-offs from the two original books. Who can say what practice or pointers will work for anyone else. I am the last to judge even the goofiest or angriest teacher. We all approach Self-Realization from a different set of conditionings, a different personality and wide variety of "self-images." UG Krishnamurti (not Jiddu) has never resonated with me, but he works for some.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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