My deepest questions

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
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EnterZenFromThere
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Re: My deepest questions

Post by EnterZenFromThere » Sat May 10, 2014 10:48 am

Why do you think we are here?

Phil2
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Re: My deepest questions

Post by Phil2 » Sat May 10, 2014 10:54 am

EnterZenFromThere wrote:Why do you think we are here?
There is no need to think to be ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)

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EnterZenFromThere
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Re: My deepest questions

Post by EnterZenFromThere » Sat May 10, 2014 11:10 am

I use the word "think" for the simplicity of speech, I guess this could be re-worded but I suspect you would say the same thing?

Presumably you do think, or have ideas not formed of thought. Otherwise this conversation would not be taking place.

Phil2
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Re: My deepest questions

Post by Phil2 » Sat May 10, 2014 11:23 am

EnterZenFromThere wrote:
Presumably you do think, or have ideas not formed of thought. Otherwise this conversation would not be taking place.
Yes I think, but the important is not the thoughts, but the gap of silence between two thoughts ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)

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EnterZenFromThere
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Re: My deepest question

Post by EnterZenFromThere » Sat May 10, 2014 11:36 am

I can appreciate that statement. I feel the importance of abiding in/as/from that stillness that passage to our Higher Being. But that's a line I've read many times from many teachers. I question the value of using it in intellectual discussions where the deeper meaning of it is not directly explored by the individual without the intellect.

I really do appreciate where you are coming from with these replies. I'm asking questions to try and nurture a less intellectual investigation in you.

With love,

Jack

Phil2
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Re: My deepest question

Post by Phil2 » Sat May 10, 2014 2:34 pm

EnterZenFromThere wrote:
I really do appreciate where you are coming from with these replies. I'm asking questions to try and nurture a less intellectual investigation in you.
It is not intellectual ... in this gap of silence, this is where you ARE ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)

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smiileyjen101
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Re: My deepest questions

Post by smiileyjen101 » Wed May 14, 2014 2:22 am

These distinctions - mental - emotional - physical are natural leanings in how we see the world, we might tend to lean more to one than another.

Balancing What do I 'think' about this, how/what do I 'feel' about this, what would/can/will I 'do' with/in this, tends to give a more balanced and deeper understanding (of anything).

Not saying anyone's leaning or anything, just saw the 'difference' in perspectives. It's never just intellectual, or emotional or physical, it's all combined.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com

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EnterZenFromThere
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Re: My deepest questions

Post by EnterZenFromThere » Wed May 14, 2014 2:23 pm

Very good point Jen :)

peas
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Re: My deepest questions

Post by peas » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:27 am

viking55803 wrote:The transcendent vertical dimension of the now does not free us from living in the horizontal dimension.
Actually, it does.

It depends who the "us" is that you are talking about. If you are talking about the mind-made me that is made up of roles, body, family and thoughts then you are right.

But that is not you. That is a temporary form, whther physical or thought form.

The formless is who you are and is completely free from the horizontal. The horizontal is only for the form.

When the form goes through a less than ideal experience, say homelessness, or joblessness, then it can make way to the formless for answers. That is really the most important relationship between form and formless.

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viking55803
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Re: My deepest questions

Post by viking55803 » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:31 pm

As far as I can tell, all living beings need to breathe, eat, drink, sleep - our bodies even contain biological clocks that function in the horizontal dimension. It is not either/or. It seems you are creating a duality that doesn't truly exist - I am both formless and form, and the form needs to eat to live, however transient a state that may be.

peas
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Re: My deepest questions

Post by peas » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:57 am

viking55803 wrote:As far as I can tell, all living beings need to breathe, eat, drink, sleep - our bodies even contain biological clocks that function in the horizontal dimension. It is not either/or. It seems you are creating a duality that doesn't truly exist - I am both formless and form, and the form needs to eat to live, however transient a state that may be.
"Need" is the operative word here. Where does this powerful word come from? If you follow it through to the end where do you end up?

I suggest that the mind has created a hierarchy of needs (see Maslov) and has hoodwinked its way into a very powerful position that is entirely unecessary and indeed harmful to our existence, the very thing that it espouses is being strengthened through pursuing 'needs'.

This is the human dysfunction that we find ourselves in right now and it doesn't have to be like that, hence Eckhart's wonderful teaching.

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dijmart
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Re: My deepest questions

Post by dijmart » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:22 pm

peas wrote:
viking55803 wrote:As far as I can tell, all living beings need to breathe, eat, drink, sleep - our bodies even contain biological clocks that function in the horizontal dimension. It is not either/or. It seems you are creating a duality that doesn't truly exist - I am both formless and form, and the form needs to eat to live, however transient a state that may be.
"Need" is the operative word here. Where does this powerful word come from? If you follow it through to the end where do you end up?.
Doesn't your body/form need to breathe, eat, drink or sleep to survive? Ramana's did, Tolle's does, Nisargadatta's did, if it doesn't do these things it (body), will die. It doesn't matter what word you use. The word "need" is only powerful if you think it's powerful. He could have said "the body has to....", but that doesn't change the meaning at all. I really don't see what you're trying to say here. His post was regarding the relative form, not a psychological need?
Take what you like and leave the rest.

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viking55803
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Re: My deepest questions

Post by viking55803 » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:22 pm

Yes, of course, what I think or imagine I need and what I actually need can be quite different. Ekhart makes this point when he says something like, "Sure, you can sit quietly in presence and being and hope someone puts food in your mouth, and that might happen - probably not in the Western world but could happen in places like India." The point he is making, even for himself, is that doing - especially creative expression - is one of the ways the Universe creates and is in no way antithetical to awakening. This practice is anything but esoteric, abstract, or intellectual. It accepts the ego, the emotions, the body etc. as part of what is.

Living in Northern Minnesota reminds me regularly that clothing and shelter are not wants, they are necessities, and I have spent 40+ years finding better ways to help others (particularly the mentally ill and homeless alcoholic) access those necessities.

peas
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Re: My deepest questions

Post by peas » Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:03 am

dijmart wrote:Doesn't your body/form need to breathe, eat, drink or sleep to survive? Ramana's did, Tolle's does, Nisargadatta's did, if it doesn't do these things it (body), will die. It doesn't matter what word you use. The word "need" is only powerful if you think it's powerful. He could have said "the body has to....", but that doesn't change the meaning at all. I really don't see what you're trying to say here. His post was regarding the relative form, not a psychological need?
There are two parts, the vertical, which encompasses the horizontal, and the horizontal, which does not encompass the vertical.

peas
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Re: My deepest questions

Post by peas » Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:10 am

viking55803 wrote:Yes, of course, what I think or imagine I need and what I actually need can be quite different. Ekhart makes this point when he says something like, "Sure, you can sit quietly in presence and being and hope someone puts food in your mouth, and that might happen - probably not in the Western world but could happen in places like India." The point he is making, even for himself, is that doing - especially creative expression - is one of the ways the Universe creates and is in no way antithetical to awakening. This practice is anything but esoteric, abstract, or intellectual. It accepts the ego, the emotions, the body etc. as part of what is.

Living in Northern Minnesota reminds me regularly that clothing and shelter are not wants, they are necessities, and I have spent 40+ years finding better ways to help others (particularly the mentally ill and homeless alcoholic) access those necessities.
Doing does not accept anything. It cannot accept the ego, the emotions, the body. Being does the accepting. Doing can be completely devoid of being and therefore devoid of accepting.

Doing, in its non-beingness, can never be who you are. The trap is identifying with your actions, no matter how 'helpful' they are. Then time comes in, and equates actions with years of service. Where you have time you have fear. Where you have fear you have suffering. Helping people avoid suffering becomes suffering dressed up differently.

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