I can´t get over her

[GermanEnlightenment]

Can you help me figure out what love is?
Because if what we are is already love then telling another person that we love them is just us telling them our story of what we love about them, right? F.e. I might say to a girl that she´s beautiful, funny, smart, fascinating etc. but basically that´s just me telling her about qualities that my mind is appreciating. The mind has certain preferences and ideas about what makes a person loveable and we either tell that person directly what we love about them or we just say "I love you" to them and may not even be consciously aware of what we love about them because we haven´t really inquired the preferences and likes/dislikes of our mind, right? So really, it´s all about "me" in the end, isn´t? Loving someone has nothing to do with the other person but with onself. If pure love is already in everyone of us and we are all one consciousness then I´m showing my love to another person because I recognize and appreciate the love that is in me. And how would we know what love for another person is anyway if the mind doesn´t tell us?

I´m confused out of my mind.

[Phil2]

Can you help me figure out what love is?
Because if what we are is already love then telling another person that we love them is just us telling them our story of what we love about them, right? F.e. I might say to a girl that she´s beautiful, funny, smart, fascinating etc. but basically that´s just me telling her about qualities that my mind is appreciating. The mind has certain preferences and ideas about what makes a person loveable and we either tell that person directly what we love about them or we just say "I love you" to them and may not even be consciously aware of what we love about them because we haven´t really inquired the preferences and likes/dislikes of our mind, right? So really, it´s all about "me" in the end, isn´t? Loving someone has nothing to do with the other person but with onself. If pure love is already in everyone of us and we are all one consciousness then I´m showing my love to another person because I recognize and appreciate the love that is in me. And how would we know what love for another person is anyway if the mind doesn´t tell us?

Well said ...

There is a (somewhat sexist but also true the other way round) joke summarising this:

"when a woman loves a man, it is not really him she loves, but when she quits this man, it is really him she quits" ...

[GermanEnlightenment]

As I release more and more past emotions/energies I feel like the truth is burning through my whole mind-conditioned self, certain negative beliefs and thoughts that I kept holding onto for some strange/unknown reason. It seems like in the end all lies and illusions will vanish and nothing unreal will be left.

It just came to me today that I tried really hard to be a spiritual person a lot of the time which basically just means taking on another ego-identity. It´s so clear to me now that when I chose to become friends with this girl after she rejected my advances I believed that I could do the friends-thing and eventually get over her. Well, I deluded myself into thinking that. Even though there were times when I felt like we connected with each other on a deeper level I can no longer deny the fact that my uterior motive was - sooner or later - having sex with her. After every encounter with her I thought that I was making "progress", that I could get over her and just be comfortable arround her like with my male friends. And I was comfortable arround her in sharing emotional emotional stories from my past but at the same time I noticed that I tried to supress my sexual thoughts and feelings whenever I was arround her. That´s unhealthy and it´s killing me.
I deeply appreciate this woman and what she has done for my spiritual/emotional growth but I can no longer act like I´m not incredibly sexually attracted to her. I´m not saying men and women can never be just friends with each other but I´m a 23 year old man who has never had sex. All this time that I spent with her - while being inauthentic in my interactions with her because I acted like she´s just another friend - could be better used by meeting other girls. Because as long as I think that there´s even a one per cent chance that she will change her mind about having a relationship with me I will not get inolved with another girl.
I think I have to talk to her about all of this and no matter how she reacts I will be okay. All these discoveries that I made about myself could only take place because she appeared in my life and I will forever be thankful for that.

This revelation lead to another revelation. I realized that when I offered her my friendship I acted like everything was cool for me and that her rejection of me was no big deal. I repressed all this anger and frustration that came along with it because I didn´t want to make her feel uncomfortable and show her my "bad side". And I guess it would have been okay to not show my anger directly to her face but I supressed these feeling even when I was alone with myself. I probably thought that I was showing moral superiority by doing that. In addition to that I knew that we had to see each for the next two years because we are attending the same classes, so I thought that I had no other choice but be "brave" and cool about it. I was also acting from a place of fear because I thought that if I lose her friendship then I won´t find another woman in my life, not realizing how such a scarcity-mindset just confirms that.

In the last couple of days I realized that I carry arround a lot of repressed anger from the past and that shows itself in feelings of powerlessness and sadness. Really neat discovery. I also think because I watched a lot of spiritual teachers I deluded myself into thinking that I should be peaceful, calm and without negativity. Deep down though I knew that something was off.
I think my fear of showing anger towards others stems from my childhood because I never knew when my father would launch another verbal assault at me or when my parents would get into another screaming match. I, though, wasn´t allowed to get loud or voice any frustrations towards my father. Now I knew that I felt aboned and rejected by my father and I must have learned that I have to be nice and submissive to be accepted by others. I used "The Work"-method from Byron Katie on the believe "People will leave me and don´t want anything to do with me when I´m voicing anger towards them" and I was shocked and relieved with what I discovered. "The truth will set us free", indeed.

[GermanEnlightenment]

Wait a minute...that´s all just a story isn´t it? All of this doesn´t really matter. Wow, I feel so detached now.

[Andreas]

Wait a minute...that´s all just a story isn´t it? All of this doesn´t really matter. Wow, I feel so detached now.

Wow! Congratulations ! When just reading your story and, right afterwards, reading this realization you had 2 hours later, I was really able to feel the "click" in your head myself. Awesome !

Anyway, I think there is truth in both your posts. There are lots of insights about your motivations and your ego in the first one as well. All the things about "still hanging around with her" or "acting with her in a special way" because of whatever reasons. It's good to see the reasons. To realize they exist and that quite often all those seemingly spiritual ways of behaviour are just another layer of ego. Also it seems you kind of got aware of how you put her in the center of many of your thoughts (one layer) and made a shift from "her" to "you" (next layer). And then, the second post... well, as I said, just wow !

[GermanEnlightenment]

@Andreas

Yeah, it was so weird. I wrote the first post and then after seeing my "story" on screen I realized that it was just that - a story. After reading through it again I felt like I was reading some other person´s writing and I was able to detach myself from it.

The last weeks were pretty scary. I felt like a lot of my accumlated emotions from the past got released from my body and it was like every day had another theme of suffering. I was feeling incredibly angry one day, close to suicide on another day and then I was just overwhelmed with sexual thoughts and feelings on another day. There was also joy and an outflow of love for being alive which I didn´t expect.
But now I feel like I have reached more of a place of inner stability. Occasionally I get dragged into the abyss by some toxic thoughts but that is less and less the case. Now if a "negative" thought comes up I just watch it but don´t follow it, otherwise I will just sit there, pointlessly suffering for a couple of hours. Usually these thoughts are accomponied by heavy emotions but when they arise I just focus on wherever they arise in the body, feel them and sooner or later they dissolve. Positive thoughts and feelings are welcome of course because they are aligned with my true nature.

What I find really frustrating and interesting at the same time is that everyone who embarks on this journey to find inner peace has to figure things out by himself. Although there are a lot of pointers to the truth, the mind plays all this tricks and misleads on you to stay in charge. F.e. I can´t tell you how often I read the simple phrase "You are not your mind because you are able to observe it" but it actually took me months to figure out that if the mind is producing all these thoughts and you are the one that can observe these thoughts then you can´t be the entity that´s producing them in the first place, if that makes any sense. We are being thought, is what I mean. So simple but it took me ages for this truth to sink in.

I also came to the conclusion that the mind doesn´t know anything. It has all this past conditioning, memories, beliefs, ideas; so it´s now wonder that it can´t help us to figure out how to improve our current life situation (which probably is miserable due to complete mind-identification) and arrive at a future where we are at peace with ourselves. I found out a lot of my problems get solved when I´m connected to "myself". Solutions just arise at the right time and not in the way that I expected them to but everything just works itself out without any ego-strategizing or manipulation. Life seems effortless to me when I´m connected with myself and like a struggle when I´m identified with egoic desires. What´s great about life is that your external reality always mirrors what´s going on inside you, so if something seems off, it´s good to check if you are lost in your mind or repressing negative emotions.

Currently it seems like the "voice" of my awareness shines through more and more and is "triumphing over" the one of my ego/mind. Like f.e. a week ago I approached a girl at the gym because I was immediately drawn to her and everything in me said "go to her". Well, on my way to her my ego/mind basically gave me a doomsday-list of everything that will go wrong. I listened to this critical voice for a second and then decided to approach this girl anyway. She had no interest in me but that´s fine, we had a nice chat anyway. But afterwards I recalled all these fears and dangers that my mind was telling me about before approaching her and had a good laugh about it. I mean how ridiculous is the whole approach-anxiety that most men - me included - have, anyway? It´s basically a man talking to a woman, expressing interest in her but our minds want to tell us that it´s the end of the world if we don´t get the approval of a stranger that for whatever reason is not attracted to us or "rejects" us. Our egos are so fragile.
I guess that´s currently my thing: Figuring out my comfort-zone and how to go beyond it. Sometimes when I fear doing something I just do it anyway because in the end what´s the worst that can happen to me? What I AM can´t be destroyed, only the ego can get hurt and everything that serves its dissolution is a good thing anyway.

[Andreas]

Yeah, it was so weird. I wrote the first post and then after seeing my "story" on screen I realized that it was just that - a story. After reading through it again I felt like I was reading some other person´s writing and I was able to detach myself from it.

Let me take the chance and thank you for your previous post. As I already told you, I could really feel the realization you had myself when I was reading it. But actually it was more than that. It somehow triggered the same realization in me although I was only reading about your situaiton. Of course, I had read about this stuff before and I "knew" that the ego likes story-telling etc. but, up to the point I read your post, it was more on the logical level for me. Now I really "feel" it and the last days I often catch myself realizing "Oh, you're just about to tell a story again... don't take it too serious it's all just a story..."

So in this sense: Thanks!

What I find really frustrating and interesting at the same time is that everyone who embarks on this journey to find inner peace has to figure things out by himself. Although there are a lot of pointers to the truth, the mind plays all this tricks and misleads on you to stay in charge. F.e. I can´t tell you how often I read the simple phrase "You are not your mind because you are able to observe it" but it actually took me months to figure out that if the mind is producing all these thoughts and you are the one that can observe these thoughts then you can´t be the entity that´s producing them in the first place, if that makes any sense. We are being thought, is what I mean. So simple but it took me ages for this truth to sink in.

I rather perceive it as interesting than as frustrating . I think it's always "fun" to have one of those moments when you understand something which you haven't understood before and all as sudden everything seems so totally clear and you wonder how you even could not understand it before. Always entertaining . Actually, this was exactly what happened for me with this story-thing which I just commented on .

Currently it seems like the "voice" of my awareness shines through more and more and is "triumphing over" the one of my ego/mind. Like f.e. a week ago I approached a girl at the gym because I was immediately drawn to her and everything in me said "go to her". Well, on my way to her my ego/mind basically gave me a doomsday-list of everything that will go wrong. I listened to this critical voice for a second and then decided to approach this girl anyway. She had no interest in me but that´s fine, we had a nice chat anyway. But afterwards I recalled all these fears and dangers that my mind was telling me about before approaching her and had a good laugh about it. I mean how ridiculous is the whole approach-anxiety that most men - me included - have, anyway? It´s basically a man talking to a woman, expressing interest in her but our minds want to tell us that it´s the end of the world if we don´t get the approval of a stranger that for whatever reason is not attracted to us or "rejects" us. Our egos are so fragile.
I guess that´s currently my thing: Figuring out my comfort-zone and how to go beyond it. Sometimes when I fear doing something I just do it anyway because in the end what´s the worst that can happen to me? What I AM can´t be destroyed, only the ego can get hurt and everything that serves its dissolution is a good thing anyway.

Yea, I think that's pretty normal and if I recall it correctly, Eckhart Tolle was also mentioning this. That at first, you might have some moments where the awareness shines through and then the ego comes back again but, once the process started, awareness will increase more and more.

I also like your story about the girl from the gym a lot. I think this is such a perfect example for some kind of suffering which purely comes from the mental construct made up by the ego. There is no real "danger". No "harm". Nothing "bad" that can happen. It's all just the voice of the ego. Still it is so difficult for many people. It's awesome that you were able to go beyond this! Keep it on ! (And, as a hint: Women actually DO like it when you have the guts to approach them - so I guess you're on the right track ).

[GermanEnlightenment]

@Andreas

Wow, I´m glad that I could help you.
Although I think that teachers like Tolle provide the basic understanding of certain concepts like awareness, self-love etc. I find myself always a bit detached from what they´re talking about and can relate way more to real-life experiences from the forum members here. Just a slightly different phrasing of a "truth" can make all the difference.
I tend to think of spiritual teachers as the ones that pave the way to enlightenment while we (the seekers) are basically alone in this, stumbling and bumbling arround on the road and occasionally helping each other out to get closer to our destination.


On an entirely different note I found this very fascinating website which is especially interesting for male members of this forum: http://yourbrainonporn.com/

This shocked me really hard because watching porn and masturbating seems like such a subtle addiction, especially for men in my age group (18-25 year olds). I will definitely do the 90-days-challenge which means refraining from touching myself for instant gratification.

[GermanEnlightenment]

I had a mini-epiphany just a couple of hours ago that I would like to share with you guys. It came to me after watching some of Byron Katie´s videos and reading "Loving what is".

What I figured out is: You will never be complete...in the physical realm.

Everything that you desire is all well and good but as soon as you attain it you will always look for the next thing. Now, that is nothing new or a bad thing. As a human being you want to experience life postively and you are always looking for betterment in your physical reality. That´s just the way it is.
But remember that one time when you wanted to buy a new television? You were so excited when you went to the store and looked for the right model. You also had a lot of fun as soon as your new tv was installed in your living room and you enjoyed the crisp and new picture and sound-quality. But when did your new tv simply became old hat for you? After a couple of days, a week or even two weeks? Soon enough your desire was fulfilled and you were desiring something else, like a new relationship, a new car or a new job.
These things are all fine of course but are you suffering because you are not having them? What does this mean? Well, it just means that you are already too far ahead, you are not in the NOW, you are already in the future, picturing yourself with your new possession. Now you get angry or frustrated for not having what you desire, not realising that you are only suffering psychologically because your stuck in the mental gap between reality and fantasy. Not owning a new tv or car or not having a new girlfriend is not your problem but your thoughts about lack and inferiorty are. They make you feel like you desperately need this one thing that will complete you. But guess what? It won´t complete you. Nothing in this physical realm will. We are conditioned by this world, society, our parents etc. that you just have to achieve x,y,z and you "will have it made". Well, what happens if you follow f.e. the American Dream? What happens if you are f.e. a 40 year old man and you have your own business, a beautiful wife, a couple of kids, a nice house with a beautiful garden, your retirement fund etc. Will all these things GUARANTEE you that you will feel complete and like "you have it made"? Well, if all these external circumstances and achievements came about - came to you - as a part of your natural self expression then yeah, the american dream has worked out for you. But if you think these things define who you are or you can only feel fulfilled and happy because there are there then you are not connected to your true self.

I guess what I´m trying to say here is yes, you are already enough in your being and nothing that you experience can add to or subtract anything from your true nature. However, in the physical world we have certain desires that can either give us great joy when accquiring them or incredible suffering for not accquiring them. And therefore I think a balanced approach is the right one: "I desire something or someone but I´m not attached to the outcome of my desire." To the mind this sounds nonsensical: "I get upset and angry if I don´t get what I want, how can I feel so indifferent or nonchalant about it?" Well that´s just a paradox that the mind has to live with. Ironically, the more you get out of the way of your life´s natural expression by reducing your mind identification the easier your true desires will manifest in the real world. Don´t look for something or someone to fulfill you, realize that you already are enough and then live your life from there; from a place of abundance, connectedness and inner peace.

[smiileyjen101]

Hey GE, that's good that you've noticed your brain washing, but it's not programmed in at birth - marketers 'create' that sense of lack in order to have you buy their 'whatever'. They create both the 'problem' and the 'solution' (usually at a cost, or at the abdication of your own power to another).

Think about it.

It's culturally and generationally specific.

When you take back your own power, and realise the influences upon you, then you can walk without it.

There really is no arguing with 'it is what it is'.

[GermanEnlightenment]

Currently I feel really stuck. Looking back on my whole journey that started about half a year ago I more and more understand that I never really had an interest in finding out the truth of my existence but I just wanted to get over this one girl and finally have a relationship with a (different) woman to feel emotional and physical intimacy. Well my summer vacation is nearly over now and I feel like I have made no progress in the last four weeks when it comes to that.
Since I started to become more aware (half a year ago) my life improved dramatically: my relationship with my whole family is really good now, I feel like I can connect a lot better with my peers, my grades are awesome, I´m doing a lot of sport etc. But these are just external "accomplishments", inside I feel a lot more at peace now and I don´t get drawn into the drama of other people´s life. I understand that everyone creates his own reality with his beliefs and I don´t take anything personally anymore. I also act more "manly" by being decisive, leading people and showing confidence in my everyday-life.

But when it comes to girls I´m completely out of my league. Sure, I read spiritual books about love, immerse myself in pick up artist-material and have a broad knowledge about the female psychology now but in real-life I don´t do anything. When I talk to girls it just doesn´t feel right to me. Now that doesn´t mean that I think that I am gay I know for sure that I´m not but it´s like there are still a lot of unquestioned, deep beliefs buried inside me that make me not feel worthy. It´s like I think I don´t deserve what other "normal" people have. I´m insecure about my sexuality because I´ve never kissed a woman or had sex with one. I´m having trouble acting like I´m desireable because it´s like I´m lying to them due to my lack of experience. Well, women can sense it anyway if a guy is authentic or not.
I guess I still feel resentful that my teenage years were so uneventful and horrible. While other guys had their first girlfriend, their first kirss, their first date, their first time etc. I was trapped in a prison of self-hate and depression. I realize now that I desperately wanted what they had at the time with all the heartbreak, embarassement and enjoyment instead of just me being the loner, the weird kid who couldn´t connect with anyone because he wasn´t even connected to himself.

I guess none of this really matters anymore but still when I think about experiencing intimacy with a girl I feel like that´s an experience that is so completely out of my world it´s not even funny. I guess what I fear the most when it comes to relationships is that you can´t control them or predict what will happen next. With a lot of things in life there´s a manual: you study for school, you train and get a certain result when doing sport, you take certain steps to build a house etc.
But relationships are messy especially romantic ones and I guess what I fear the most about sex is giving away control. As long as I can think I felt like I was in control even when I was drunk - I still knew what was going on. I always wanted to be on top of everything, I never wanted others to get ahead of me or else they could catch me in a bad moment when I wasn´t paying attention to what they were doing. I guess that´s one of the side-effects of getting bullied. The powerlessness and unpredictablity experienced is what I desperately wanted to prevent in the future.
I also think that I´m having trouble acting like I want to get what I want. I cringe at the thought of taking over a woman´s body forcefully (during sex) and showing dominance. It´s like I don´t feel entitled and don´t deserve to want what I want. It´s like I´m fearing success more than failure when it comes relationships.

So I see all these things but I don´t know how I can release these deeply-ingrained, destructive thought patterns. I only know that I have no idea how to proceed any further when it comes to women. There´s nothing in life that I want more than a good relationship not even because I think it will complete me or out of societal pressure but for self-actualization and to really get to know a girl with all the good and bad that comes with it. It´s all relative anyway.

[GermanEnlightenment]

Could it also be that I have an ego-defense mechanism that claims that my problems are special and unlike nobody else? Because I read a lot online about guys that are afraid of escalating physically with girls but I doubt they have thoughts like this in their head:"Connecting with another human being would mean that you acknowledge your existence and you don´t want that, you want to hide."

Why can´t I just question these thoughts with Byron Katie´s method and set myself free. I tried but it didn´t work.

[GermanEnlightenment]

So here´s the interesting thing: Immediately after writing this stuff out I felt a sudden pull back towards awareness. I think the deeper I dig into my underlying, unquestioned beliefs the more horrible I feel when I´m in an unconscious state again. It´s like as soon as the ego finds out that I´m in his grip again it´s firing on all cyclinders to make me stay there.
Yesterday after writing this stuff out I immediately went to bed and slept for like 10 hours. Then today I woke up, feeling totally centred and at peace. I think it´s true what they say about fear: False evidence appearing real.

[Andreas]

Ok, I think you're mixing two things here.

In short, I'd say there are two things you want at the moment:
- Getting a girl.
- Becoming enlightened.

Actually, both are independent from each other. You can have a girl without being enlightened and you can be enlightened without having a girl. However, interpreting from your posts, it seems that both things are related (and maybe even confused) in a strong way. Your strong desire for getting a girl is driven by the ego and prevents you from being present in many moments. The other way round, you assume that being enlightened will help you getting a girl. Both things are actually true in a certain way but it might help you to separate them nevertheless.

1.) Become enlightened. That's fine. It's even cool. But don't do it "because of the girls". Just do it. Because as long as you do it "for the girls", you do it for ego reasons. And if you do it for ego reasons, you're not enlightened. So you just prevent yourself by having this motive.

2.) Get a girl. But don't do it by trying to become enlightened. Do it by learning how to interact with girls - so that you can get the girl no matter if you are enlightened or not. This is easier and being enlightened at some later point will just give you additional chances then.

Practice 1.) and practice 2.) both, but don't practice 1.)+2.) as a mix .
For 1.): This is your personal journey. The books and this platform here will be a nice support. The rest is up to you.
For 2.): What are you doing to get a girl? You say in reallife you don't do anything? Why not? I can read what you wrote and all the arguments why you think you might not be able to find a girl. (A "story" by the way.) But one thing, you don't write in your story. Let's assume you really have a 0% success chance. What prevents you from trying it nevertheless and just failing? And, apart from the reallife thing that you don't do - do you do anything else? Online game for example?

[Phil2]

Could it also be that I have an ego-defense mechanism that claims that my problems are special and unlike nobody else? Because I read a lot online about guys that are afraid of escalating physically with girls but I doubt they have thoughts like this in their head:"Connecting with another human being would mean that you acknowledge your existence and you don´t want that, you want to hide."

Why can´t I just question these thoughts with Byron Katie´s method and set myself free. I tried but it didn´t work.

GE, did you ever seriously question yourself about WHY exactly do you want so badly a relationship with a girl ?

Where does this urgent need come from exactly ?

??

It would be worth investigating this question, no ?

Do you think you can enter in an harmonious and satisfactory relationship, any relationship, from a place of such personal 'need' ? What are you there ? a beggar of affection ?

??