A questionable statement in A New Earth

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LifeNow
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A questionable statement in A New Earth

Post by LifeNow » Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:09 am

Hello,

I have been reading "A New Earth" while simultaneously roaming through this discussion community. I came across a paragraph (second-to-last) on page 292 of the paperback (Plume) edition which reads:

"On our planet, the human ego represents the final stage of universal sleep, the identification of consciousness with form. It was a necessary stage in the evolution of consciousness."

This put me off in a sense. It seems to say that all the madness and horrors of humanity's past were seen as necessary and thus - by implication and horrifyingly so - acceptable, when taken from the standpoint of the ultimate, right goal of the evolution of consciousness. I accept that evolution involves the dissolution and arising of form, but I do not accept, spiritually (oh, the paradox), that evil acts come forth from the evolutionary impulse of the universe.

Please share your insight of this particular text. Thank you in advance.

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smiileyjen101
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Re: A questionable statement in A New Earth

Post by smiileyjen101 » Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:24 pm

Welcome aboard LifeNow

"On our planet, the human ego represents the final stage of universal sleep, the identification of consciousness with form. It was a necessary stage in the evolution of consciousness."
It is a bit of a hazy one isn't it.

There likely will be a variety of 'perspectives' on it, I tend more to take what 'resonates' and leave the rest. It's a bit too 'prescriptive' for me. I'd likely say Who says? and Based on what evidence?

I wouldn't let it put you off too much though, there is much in ANE and in the Power of Now that are self evident.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

Phil2
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Re: A questionable statement in A New Earth

Post by Phil2 » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:50 pm

LifeNow wrote: It seems to say that all the madness and horrors of humanity's past were seen as necessary and thus - by implication and horrifyingly so - acceptable, when taken from the standpoint of the ultimate, right goal of the evolution of consciousness. I accept that evolution involves the dissolution and arising of form, but I do not accept, spiritually (oh, the paradox), that evil acts come forth from the evolutionary impulse of the universe.
What Eckhart means is that suffering was needed in order to drop our false identification with forms (ie. ego) ... people who don't suffer do not need to change, they just go on 'business as usual' ... iow we have to 'hit the bottom' in order to come up ...

When we see the real danger of some situation (eg. a dangerous animal), we stay away from it ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)

slow ride
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Re: A questionable statement in A New Earth

Post by slow ride » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:57 pm

smiileyjen101 wrote: tend more to take what 'resonates' and leave the rest.
Apply this to everything you read.
And, by the way, read everything.
I find resonating pieces in smallish bits of almost everything.
But I never find any one thing and say: this is it.
It seems it is up to each of us --- ie, us who want to find truth rather than settle for a religion --- to seek and find and assimilate the resonant parts.
But, we really wouldn't want it any other way would we?
I mean, who doesn't enjoy a treasure hunt?!!!

There are only two mistakes one can make along the road to truth: not going all the way, and not starting. --- the Buddha

And don't be frustrated if it takes thousands of lifetimes...
One realizes the journey is rather treasure-like in its own right and the ultimate state of Oneness will surely prove to have been worth the work.

All Eckhart is saying, all Buddha said, all Jesus said was: I've glimpsed the destination; it is awesome; Loveforce is attracting you toward itself; Loveforce is inevitable; practice common-sense disengagement from the dream (nonjudgement, forgiveness, don't fixate on or follow the jibberish from the thinker); seek and you will find; relax and enjoy the ride.

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KathleenBrugger
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Re: A questionable statement in A New Earth

Post by KathleenBrugger » Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:04 pm

LifeNow wrote: "On our planet, the human ego represents the final stage of universal sleep, the identification of consciousness with form. It was a necessary stage in the evolution of consciousness."

This put me off in a sense. It seems to say that all the madness and horrors of humanity's past were seen as necessary and thus - by implication and horrifyingly so - acceptable, when taken from the standpoint of the ultimate, right goal of the evolution of consciousness. I accept that evolution involves the dissolution and arising of form, but I do not accept, spiritually (oh, the paradox), that evil acts come forth from the evolutionary impulse of the universe.
Where else could "evil acts" come from then? Is there something outside the "evolutionary impulse of the universe"? From my point of view, there is only the One, Ultimate Consciousness, God, whatever you like to call it. That One is ALL there is. If there's something that's outside of the One, then it isn't the One, it's limited. So if you accept the proposition of nonduality that there is an ultimate Oneness, then that must also include all that has been and all that will be on this physical plane.

In addition, the entirety of the physical universe is The-One-in-Form, it's God in disguise. It's Ultimate Consciousness playing at unconsciousness for the experience of awakening. The travails of life in form--all the madness and horror--are part of what it is to be experiencing unconsciousness. There is no evil, there is only confusion.

My problem with the sentence you quoted is the proposition that human ego is the "final stage." This seems a little presumptuous to me. To think there is only one tiny step between human consciousness and Ultimate Consciousness is egotistical, from my vantage point. I think the human ego is just another step along the way towards complete awakening to the recognition of our true identity.
We are ALL Innocent by Reason of Insanity
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epiphany55
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Re: A questionable statement in A New Earth

Post by epiphany55 » Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:44 pm

I agree with Kathleen, where else would this so-called evil come from?

Also, I would add that I can't see how there would necessarily be a goal of evolution. All natural processes are blind, as far as we understand, as they are driven by external and perpetually antecedent causes. We have evolved egos purely as a survival mechanism, but that wasn't the goal, it was the inevitable symptom of the cause. One of the inevitable symptoms of all what we call evil in the world is, according to ET, a mass awakening. I agree with this, because it often takes a crisis of realisation to become more conscious of one's nature. It logically follows that if the ultimate ends to all this evil is self destruction (which it surely will be), then we either awaken or die. There are several books (other than ET's New Earth) on how this will push consciousness into the next stage of evolution in order to adapt to this new level of survival - surviving the ego.

What a fascinating subject!
Thought is the object, not the essence, of consciousness.

nowforever
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Re: A questionable statement in A New Earth

Post by nowforever » Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:35 am

LifeNow wrote:
"On our planet, the human ego represents the final stage of universal sleep, the identification of consciousness with form. It was a necessary stage in the evolution of consciousness."

This put me off in a sense. It seems to say that all the madness and horrors of humanity's past were seen as necessary and thus - by implication and horrifyingly so - acceptable, when taken from the standpoint of the ultimate, right goal of the evolution of consciousness. I accept that evolution involves the dissolution and arising of form, but I do not accept, spiritually (oh, the paradox), that evil acts come forth from the evolutionary impulse of the universe.
Sorry! My english isn´t very good! i try my best!


I think, what he means is, the ego works just the way it works. And so it HAD to come like it came! Meaning: thousands of People killing each other and so on! It is not only that humanity needs to see the results of the ego to Change! It is just the way the ego works. It had to end up like this. And when the crisis has reached its highest level, humanity has the "chance" to find its way into stillness.

I want to comment a little bit on what you call "devil"! Eckhart sais there is no such Thing as devil. But there is the ego! And the ego brings suffering just the way the devil would!

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DavidB
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Re: A questionable statement in A New Earth

Post by DavidB » Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:21 pm

We know it was meant to happen because it did happen. If it was not meant to happen, it would not have happened, it would have happened some other way, which it didn't. You cannot argue with reallity.

We cannot see the big picture. We cannot assume to know what is best for the evolution of the universe.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

epiphany55
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Re: A questionable statement in A New Earth

Post by epiphany55 » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:01 pm

nowforever wrote:I want to comment a little bit on what you call "devil"! Eckhart sais there is no such Thing as devil. But there is the ego! And the ego brings suffering just the way the devil would!
Indeed, it has been said that the devil is a metaphor for the ego. This is a symbolic interpretation of the Bible that many Christians haven't considered. Could Jesus also be symbolic of the light of consciousness?
Thought is the object, not the essence, of consciousness.

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smiileyjen101
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Re: A questionable statement in A New Earth

Post by smiileyjen101 » Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:46 pm

Epiphany said: Indeed, it has been said that the devil is a metaphor for the ego. This is a symbolic interpretation of the Bible that many Christians haven't considered. Could Jesus also be symbolic of the light of consciousness?
My take would be that 'the Holy Spirit' would be more the light of consciousness, and that the person Jesus allowed it to shine through him, even where the 'ego' would have preferred for him to just shut the crap up. :wink:


If you think about it this way, then the 'Holy Trinity' is/would be
god = everything in creation through all eternity, all feeding into everything in creation through all eternity - the alpha and the omega - in everything, everything in it.

the holy spirit - awareness of this ^^^ and free flowing (non resistant) energetic flow of it

Jesus - the 'individual' the 'son (or daughter) of 'god', who is also 'god' (everything in form) born from, always in, returning to 'god' - never apart from any other element of 'god', and by their awareness, capacity and willingness shining the light of awareness (or not) - still, never outside of 'god'.

The devil then is one who does not know this in awareness or capacity, or does know it but wilfully rejects it and tries to hide from the light - cloaking and twisting and tormenting them self and others in the process.

So, then the notion 'the devil made me do it' would merely be
my unawareness, or my incapacity, or my unwillingness...

an actual abdication of our response ability...
my unawareness that we are all one, or my rejection of the awareness that we are all one, or my unwillingness to be love, allowed other than love to flow into my thoughts and deeds.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

LifeNow
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Re: A questionable statement in A New Earth

Post by LifeNow » Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:16 pm

nowforever wrote:LifeNow wrote:
"On our planet, the human ego represents the final stage of universal sleep, the identification of consciousness with form. It was a necessary stage in the evolution of consciousness."

This put me off in a sense. It seems to say that all the madness and horrors of humanity's past were seen as necessary and thus - by implication and horrifyingly so - acceptable, when taken from the standpoint of the ultimate, right goal of the evolution of consciousness. I accept that evolution involves the dissolution and arising of form, but I do not accept, spiritually (oh, the paradox), that evil acts come forth from the evolutionary impulse of the universe.
Sorry! My english isn´t very good! i try my best!


I think, what he means is, the ego works just the way it works. And so it HAD to come like it came! Meaning: thousands of People killing each other and so on! It is not only that humanity needs to see the results of the ego to Change! It is just the way the ego works. It had to end up like this. And when the crisis has reached its highest level, humanity has the "chance" to find its way into stillness.

I want to comment a little bit on what you call "devil"! Eckhart sais there is no such Thing as devil. But there is the ego! And the ego brings suffering just the way the devil would!
Thank you smileyjen for the welcome.

I still don't ascribe to the notion that all the madness and horror of the past had to happen, or was necessary for the evolution of consciousness. It wasn't, if conscious awareness and Being and presence are timeless and always in the background. If consciousness is timeless and perfect - why does it need to evolve? Or does this 'evolution' simply mean overcoming and thus directing form?

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Onceler
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Re: A questionable statement in A New Earth

Post by Onceler » Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:22 am

I agree, lifeNow. I don't believe all this suffering is necessary for anything. On the other hand, it can give us some impetus
To become more aware
Be present, be pleasant.

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Re: A questionable statement in A New Earth

Post by tod » Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:47 am

:) Welcome to the forum LifeNow.
LifeNow wrote: I still don't ascribe to the notion that all the madness and horror of the past had to happen, or was necessary for the evolution of consciousness. It wasn't, if conscious awareness and Being and presence are timeless and always in the background. If consciousness is timeless and perfect - why does it need to evolve? Or does this 'evolution' simply mean overcoming and thus directing form?
Some thoughts on this:

It is evident that consciousness is not all knowing in the sense of mental knowing. However it can go into mental knowing (thought/belief) and thus accumulate mental knowing (experience) via this medium.

It appears that mental knowing or knowing via the use of thought has varying densities dependent on how much consciousness is focused - or dwells on or in - a particular thought or thought structure.

Consciousness appears to have the ability to lose itself in mental structure - and then regain itself. This process appears to afford much thought knowledge on the consequences of various thought actions.

It appears that consciousness is innately curious and, at least initially, quite mentally dumb. However it is evident that some intelligence has been gathered in this area. It seems that consciousness is starting to wise up and be more intelligent in the thoughts that it entertains.

So although consciousness has had many millennia to contemplate dense thought matter it is still evolving it's intelligence when it comes to living matter or it's involvement/investment or being in it's thought-to-be matter.

Or perhaps something like this.

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Re: A questionable statement in A New Earth

Post by smiileyjen101 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:43 am

LifeNow wrote:
I still don't ascribe to the notion that all the madness and horror of the past had to happen, or was necessary for the evolution of consciousness. It wasn't, if conscious awareness and Being and presence are timeless and always in the background. If consciousness is timeless and perfect - why does it need to evolve? Or does this 'evolution' simply mean overcoming and thus directing form?
Tod says: It is evident that consciousness is not all knowing in the sense of mental knowing. However it can go into mental knowing (thought/belief) and thus accumulate mental knowing (experience) via this medium.

It appears that mental knowing or knowing via the use of thought has varying densities dependent on how much consciousness is focused - or dwells on or in - a particular thought or thought structure.
It's a 'tricky' thing to explain even what we think about it. I appreciate that Tolle would have had the same difficulties in sharing his thoughts.
"On our planet, the human ego represents the final stage of universal sleep, the identification of consciousness with form. It was a necessary stage in the evolution of consciousness."
It can only impact on the evolution of human consciousness - our awareness, capacity and willingness, and in impacting on that it will have a natural consequence branching outwards - to other humans, to other species, and to our environment.

On our planet - (imho but with plenty of evidence) the human ego is the dumbest of the dumb and ignorant and arrogant that makes 'enemy', 'obstacle' and 'means to an end' of a thing, person or situation.

The human ego - the sense of 'separation' and as if this current 'form' or situation is only as we see it from our particular perspectives and beliefs, with many of those 'beliefs' based on false premises born of the notion of 'separateness'.

Creation energy goes through many natural stages of creation - growth - destruction - creation - growth - destruction.
It just is. There is no new growth, no 'rebirth' without it.

The human ego for instance is the only 'density' where a sense of 'offence' - that something within the natural evolution is offensive, or 'should not' happen.

The human ego is the only 'density' where natural consequences are either not considered 'enough' or 'right', where 'punishment' and overpowering of what is, is enacted. So we take offence, and we seek to 'punish' and 'control' outcomes, rather than seeing a wider picture and 'allow' natural unfolding consequences - evolution, to unfold.

I don't know that it 'had to happen' - but within the natural cause and effect of humankind's 'fall from grace' - the sense that there is 'right' and 'wrong' rather than 'just is' in all of creation and evolution, it is a natural consequence. And we create 'laws' and 'penalties' and 'codes' and 'industries' and 'nations' and 'religions' to support this insanity.

As all creation and evolution is naturally unfolding and accommodating in equilibrium it has to - in the wider picture - go through its own 'creation', 'growth' and 'destruction'. The human ego therefore has to go through its own creation, growth and destruction.

We're not there yet.
Still in this ignorant and arrogant belief in separation, for the love of money, for the love of power, and for the love of thinking that we are 'controlling' our incredibly complex and diverse environment, we as a species are still willing to disrespect and prematurely destroy and distort the resources of our valuable to everything - life giving, life sustaining, multi-species, environment.

The atrocities we've committed against each other as human beings, are nothing compared to the atrocities we have and are still committing against our mother - the Earth, and our fellow citizens of it.

There's a notion I heard from Neale Donald Walsch that (even though he references 'God') - is the voice of all creation, and in understanding the natural unfolding of cause and effect, of inter-relationships of everything whether those relationships are known or not.

Creation ---- would not, does not, presume to choose for you.

Within our own awareness, capacity and willingness we make choices. Creation only 'allows' without prejudice, without judgement, without punishment, and absorbs and allows the natural consequences of it, maintaining everything in equilibrium. Not just in this planet, not just in our species, not just in this time or any other, but everywhere, always.

The human ego and the human arrogance is still devastating. I watched a program last night detailing the 'war' between those who would protect vulnerable eco-systems and species - in this example precious mountain gorilla families - genuine loving, intelligent family systems living in harmony with their environment and with the humans who interact with them, and those in a far distant land and in the abuse of power within that same country, directing the destruction of that environment in order to drill for oil to power shit that we don't need, that will further desecrate our fragile environment and further feed the egos of insane human beings.

While one cannot presume to choose for another, my ego - absolutely my making enemy, obstacle of this insanity, sighed and said, if we let this happen - if we as a species do this, we don't deserve to share this magnificent planet. And yet, creation has no ego, and so it won't stop us - it would not presume to choose for us.

If 'we' 'blame' creation for that - it's only our own ego in ignorance that is doing so.

The suffering and horrors that we create is a natural consequence of our egos thinking we are separate to, better able to judge than, anything and everything else on this planet.

Give it over to the gorillas I say. :wink:
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

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Re: A questionable statement in A New Earth

Post by slow ride » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:31 am

Onceler wrote:I agree, lifeNow. I don't believe all this suffering is necessary for anything. On the other hand, it can give us some impetus
To become more aware
Suffering draws your full attention

Nothing ego wants more than to keep you contributing your energy to the separation dream by keeping your attention on it

Ego loves suffering

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