Romantic fantasies

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51sth
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:35 am

Romantic fantasies

Post by 51sth » Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:10 am

I've noticed that I have vivid imagination. It makes me productive and is a beautiful thing in itself. There seems to be some sort of dark side too. When I connect with people romantically I seem to develope things in my mind that haven't happened. Then these thoughts produce my feelings and I tend to cling these feelings. I don't want to hurt myself anymore. Probably needless to say that when I try to stop this thinking it only grows. Formerly I wasn't aware of this. Now that I am, what should I do or how not to do?

51sth
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:35 am

Re: Romantic fantasies

Post by 51sth » Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:19 am

In fact, this "unwanted" imagination works elsewhere too, not just in romantic things. Sometimes I catch myself thinking the worst.

Phil2
Posts: 1379
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Romantic fantasies

Post by Phil2 » Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:24 am

51sth wrote: I don't want to hurt myself anymore.
This is your 'defense system', right ? which is ego ... Your defense system is going to build a protective wall around you, kind of shell or carapace in order to avoid suffering ... and you will become more and more insensistive and more and more isolated ...

Open yourself ... but don't build expectations about what others 'should' or 'should not' be ... this is non-judgemental awareness ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)

Manyana
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:38 am

Re: Romantic fantasies

Post by Manyana » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:31 pm

Hi 51sth, having a powerful imagination can seem like a blessing and a curse. A curse because it has the ability to create terror in you, and a blessing because it can create beauty. In terms of romantic relationships it can kind of flip between the two and cause an addiction to that person. One of the ways out of this addictive pattern is to use the imagination as a tool - you use it, rather than it uses you. This is where Law of Attraction can help, this short clip gives a brief and simple overview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RSCX9C2IUE

51sth
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:35 am

Re: Romantic fantasies

Post by 51sth » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:46 pm

Phil2 wrote:
51sth wrote: I don't want to hurt myself anymore.
This is your 'defense system', right ? which is ego ... Your defense system is going to build a protective wall around you, kind of shell or carapace in order to avoid suffering ... and you will become more and more insensistive and more and more isolated ...

Open yourself ... but don't build expectations about what others 'should' or 'should not' be ... this is non-judgemental awareness ...
Well yes and no or I don't know if this is my defense mechanism. I'll explane. I think the positive outlooks in general bring me joy and are a creative process. It is wonderful to create and it all seems to start from the tought. I have seen this a great strenght for what it comes to enjoying life. The "problem" is that I unwantedly cling to my toughts. The good and the bad. And I don't find I am in control many times. Before I went automatically: the toughts which came were the thoughts I believed. Now I have been thinking the way that I don't believe in my thoughts, but I still wish some things to be true someday, but not with a clingy attitude.

The problems come when I think something good and it doesn't happen or when I think something bad to happen and I can't let go.

So maybe my question really is "How to let go?" This brings Sedona method in my mind, but I haven't yet read about that.

Phil2
Posts: 1379
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Romantic fantasies

Post by Phil2 » Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:44 am

51sth wrote:The "problem" is that I unwantedly cling to my toughts. The good and the bad. And I don't find I am in control many times. Before I went automatically: the toughts which came were the thoughts I believed. Now I have been thinking the way that I don't believe in my thoughts, but I still wish some things to be true someday, but not with a clingy attitude.
Did you hear of Byron Katie (also recommended by Eckhart Tolle) ?

Here's an interesting article from her where she explains the role of toxic thoughts in depression and that "suffering is optional", it is a personal 'choice':

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/byron-kat ... 70207.html
"When I was in my early forties, I slept with a loaded gun under my bed. I'd become severely depressed in my thirties, and for almost a decade I spiraled down into paranoia, rage, self-loathing, and thoughts of suicide. I weighed more than two hundred pounds (I'm 5'5"), and for the last two years I was often unable to leave my bedroom. Then, one morning in February 1986, out of nowhere, I experienced a realization. In an instant, I discovered that when I believed my stressful thoughts, I suffered, but when I questioned them, I didn't suffer. I also discovered a simple way of questioning stressful thoughts. I call it "The Work." I found a joy within me that has never disappeared, not for a single moment. That joy is in everyone, always.

Suffering is optional. The only time we suffer is when we believe a thought that argues with reality. When the mind is perfectly clear, what is is what we want."
So now the question might be: Why do you choose to suffer ? What are the unresolved issues in your life ?

:?:
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)

51sth
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:35 am

Re: Romantic fantasies

Post by 51sth » Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:32 am

Phil2 wrote:
51sth wrote:The "problem" is that I unwantedly cling to my toughts. The good and the bad. And I don't find I am in control many times. Before I went automatically: the toughts which came were the thoughts I believed. Now I have been thinking the way that I don't believe in my thoughts, but I still wish some things to be true someday, but not with a clingy attitude.
Did you hear of Byron Katie (also recommended by Eckhart Tolle) ?

Here's an interesting article from her where she explains the role of toxic thoughts in depression and that "suffering is optional", it is a personal 'choice':

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/byron-kat ... 70207.html
"When I was in my early forties, I slept with a loaded gun under my bed. I'd become severely depressed in my thirties, and for almost a decade I spiraled down into paranoia, rage, self-loathing, and thoughts of suicide. I weighed more than two hundred pounds (I'm 5'5"), and for the last two years I was often unable to leave my bedroom. Then, one morning in February 1986, out of nowhere, I experienced a realization. In an instant, I discovered that when I believed my stressful thoughts, I suffered, but when I questioned them, I didn't suffer. I also discovered a simple way of questioning stressful thoughts. I call it "The Work." I found a joy within me that has never disappeared, not for a single moment. That joy is in everyone, always.

Suffering is optional. The only time we suffer is when we believe a thought that argues with reality. When the mind is perfectly clear, what is is what we want."
So now the question might be: Why do you choose to suffer ? What are the unresolved issues in your life ?

:?:
Thanks for the article :).

There seems to be something that I don't get. I feel like I am close to realising it. I think now that it is ok to want things in my life, but maybe there is this fear that if I want it then I could loose it. Also what I have noticed is that if I want something to feel joy, the more I want the more I loose. So is joy happiness? I don't see it that way. Happines to me is an attitude which keeps me stable in a way. It is trusting the universe. I just don't know how universe works. Joy is living in the moment through acceptance. I can live in it most of the time and it has been nice to hear it from others too that I have changed. People say that I seem happy and that is true. Still, I want to feel the joy of the things from my outside too, I want to experience. I want a soulmate, I want children, I want a good job with good salary, I want to do good to others and make the world a better place.

The more close I am getting to what I want I cling more and then I don't get it. Like my happiness depends on these outer things which I know to be not true. This idea and experience that happiness is inside of me, not in the outer, is fairly new to me, but I already have felt it's impact on me. Maybe I am somehow impatient because there still is some of that old believe system in my body.

Phil2
Posts: 1379
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Romantic fantasies

Post by Phil2 » Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:38 am

51sth wrote: Still, I want to feel the joy of the things from my outside too, I want to experience. I want a soulmate, I want children, I want a good job with good salary, I want to do good to others and make the world a better place.
lol ... reminds me a scene from the movie 'Hook' when Captain hook tries to explain Peter's children that their parents do not love them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0cATOGXehc

"I want, I want, I want
ME ... ME ... ME
Mine ... mine... mine
Now ... Now ... Now ..."

:lol:

...

Do you see the problem with all your 'wantings' ?

??

You create a conflict between 'what is' and 'what should be' (all your expectations) ... you resist 'what is' ... so you alienate yourself from the world, saying "this world is not friendly, it is not as it should be" ... you don't love 'what is' ... and this conflict is suffering ...

Do you see this ?
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)

51sth
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:35 am

Re: Romantic fantasies

Post by 51sth » Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:56 am

Phil2 wrote:
51sth wrote: Still, I want to feel the joy of the things from my outside too, I want to experience. I want a soulmate, I want children, I want a good job with good salary, I want to do good to others and make the world a better place.
lol ... reminds me a scene from the movie 'Hook' when Captain hook tries to explain Peter's children that their parents do not love them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0cATOGXehc

"I want, I want, I want
ME ... ME ... ME
Mine ... mine... mine
Now ... Now ... Now ..."

:lol:

...

Do you see the problem with all your 'wantings' ?

??

You create a conflict between 'what is' and 'what should be' (all your expectations) ... you resist 'what is' ... so you alienate yourself from the world, saying "this world is not friendly, it is not as it should be" ... you don't love 'what is' ... and this conflict is suffering ...

Do you see this ?
Yes I see this and the contradictory comes from my automatic thoughts which feel good to be thought. I think that my brain aligns later for what I believe to be true and this is what confuses me.

Phil2
Posts: 1379
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Romantic fantasies

Post by Phil2 » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:48 pm

51sth wrote: Yes I see this and the contradictory comes from my automatic thoughts which feel good to be thought. I think that my brain aligns later for what I believe to be true and this is what confuses me.
So when you become aware of your own thoughts, be skeptical about them ... don't believe what thought tells you ...

As Mooji said jokingly: "99 % of what you think is rubbish ... and the remaining 1 % is ... also rubbish"
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)

51sth
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:35 am

Re: Romantic fantasies

Post by 51sth » Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:29 pm

Phil2 wrote:
51sth wrote: Yes I see this and the contradictory comes from my automatic thoughts which feel good to be thought. I think that my brain aligns later for what I believe to be true and this is what confuses me.
So when you become aware of your own thoughts, be skeptical about them ... don't believe what thought tells you ...

As Mooji said jokingly: "99 % of what you think is rubbish ... and the remaining 1 % is ... also rubbish"
I see it the way that our core believes creates our thoughts. If the thinking brings resistance, our thoughts are not based on reality.

Phil2
Posts: 1379
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Romantic fantasies

Post by Phil2 » Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:54 pm

51sth wrote:
I see it the way that our core believes creates our thoughts. If the thinking brings resistance, our thoughts are not based on reality.
So your thoughts won't bother you any more, right ?
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)

51sth
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:35 am

Re: Romantic fantasies

Post by 51sth » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:45 pm

Phil2 wrote:
51sth wrote:
I see it the way that our core believes creates our thoughts. If the thinking brings resistance, our thoughts are not based on reality.
So your thoughts won't bother you any more, right ?
Well it depends. I can't say it to be sure because of the unconcious nature. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't, but when they do I want to understand what it is that I believe deep inside me which causes the thought. These believes are so deep that I only act from them and then I am unconcious. When I know what is the core believe which I have embodied I can change it to align with reality so that I don't suffer any more because of the current believe which makes me to disappoint. Example: "I hate people - > I hate myself because I don't feel loved - > I love myself - > I'm loving towards others" and when these believes change to be in align with reality/universe, my behavior changes so that I don't resist what is.

Phil2
Posts: 1379
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Romantic fantasies

Post by Phil2 » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:58 pm

51sth wrote:
Phil2 wrote:
51sth wrote:
I see it the way that our core believes creates our thoughts. If the thinking brings resistance, our thoughts are not based on reality.
So your thoughts won't bother you any more, right ?
Well it depends. I can't say it to be sure because of the unconcious nature. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't, but when they do I want to understand what it is that I believe deep inside me which causes the thought. These believes are so deep that I only act from them and then I am unconcious. When I know what is the core believe which I have embodied I can change it to align with reality so that I don't suffer any more because of the current believe which makes me to disappoint. Example: "I hate people - > I hate myself because I don't feel loved - > I love myself - > I'm loving towards others" and when these believes change to be in align with reality/universe, my behavior changes so that I don't resist what is.
Did you read Byron Katie's books ? She developped a method called "The Work" allowing to systematically question your negative thoughts and realize their utter irreality.

http://www.thework.com/index.php

The idea behind Byron Katie's work is to question the validity of our own 'negative' thoughts, by asking the four questions about the thoughts that upset us and by which we resist to 'what is' (eg. when we don't like something or someone):

1) Is it true ? (if no move to 3)

2) Can you absolutely know that it's true ?

3) How do you react, what happens, when you believe that thought ?

4) Who would you be without the thought ?

Then turn the thought around (ie. state the opposite of this thought - eg. if you don't like some person, then say "I like this person").

The idea behind the method (called "The Work") is to show that those 'negative' thoughts are generally mere assumptions not at all based on facts but on our emotions and beliefs ... by turning those thoughts around we discover that in fact, what happens is exactly what has to happen ... and there is no need to resist to it ... and resistance to 'what is' is precisely what depression is about ... rejecting things as they are and making negative judgements on others and on ourselves ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)

51sth
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:35 am

Re: Romantic fantasies

Post by 51sth » Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:00 pm

Thanks, this clarifys much. I was just reading about this, but it was little confusing to me because this is not my native language. Sometimes it takes a bit time to understand instructions. So thank you very much again :)

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