awareness

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Re: awareness

Postby epiphany55 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:38 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:I'm saying reality itself is subjective. Whatever you experience as Pure Being is exactly valid for your own unique experience. If it's experienced, it's real for that perspective. It might not be real for another perspective, but that's why, embracing perspectives separate from your own can go a long way to "enlightenment" in understanding that all perspectives are valid even if they seem completely nonsensical (such as hallucinations). I'm saying that there is no objective reality outside of the subjective experience of it from any and every potential experiential point of view.


Ok, but surely you have arrived at this conclusion through the same subjectivity that you call reality. If reality itself is subjective, then the only means to reality is through subjective experience/exploration. This puts you completely at the mercy of the chemicals in your brain. If, however, I see a formula or pattern that other subjective consciousnesses confirm they too see, then this consensus could be considered closer to objective reality than one subjective consciousness attempting to decipher all manner of patterns arising in consciousness. Otherwise, what would data being interpreted in the same way by hundreds, thousands, millions of people even mean?

Enlightened2B wrote:One Energy. One Being. Multiple relative experiential perspectives of the same One Being that I AM.


Yes, and what I find truly fascinating is how many of these experiential perspectives can align to provide a greater confirmation of what is. For example, if I lose the self through meditation, then discover that many people have had this experience, and then in turn discover that in fact no thing we could call self has ever been located in the brain, and in turn read numerous, logically constructed thought experiments on exposing the true nature of self, then this confirmation at each step of the way gives me the conviction to say "I am not a self". Therefore, what am I? Through the aid of consensus, objective data and reason, I am now asking the right questions and not wasting my time on this "self" that I merely thought I was.
Thought is the object, not the essence, of consciousness.
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Re: awareness

Postby Rob X » Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:22 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:
Rob X wrote:
Awareness is a label pasted on to 'something' that is utterly inexplicable (I suggest holding these labels very lightly.)


Yes, totally agree about the label aspect. Any attempt for us to conceptualize or define it (which is really all we do here on this board :lol: ) is only limiting what we actually are.

However, I don't think it's inexplicable. It is....WHAT IS. It's explained/expressed through our communication and actions here in physicality. The expression part of Being is within the physicality it is expressing through. I AM (as Being) awakening and learning about myself through this physical form of E2B. I AM also learning and awakening through every other drop of matter as well. The I AM is the I AM. Not so much inexplicable as undefinable. 8) That's my take.


I hear what you're saying E2B - maybe it's more semantics. As I see it the 'something-ness' IS inexplicable or unexplainable or mysterious.

The relations of the forms that manifest in its 'expression' can be accounted for in all sorts of meaningful ways but Reality/THIS is beyond our descriptions - we can never get outside of it we can only glimpse it as the 'essence' of our being.

---
rachMiel wrote:Conventionally, the wave and the ocean are both objects, one particular, one universal. Ultimately, they are both water (Brahman).


Hey Rach, if we're being picky: Conventionally, the wave and the ocean and the water are objects. Ultimately they are _________

:D
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Re: awareness

Postby Enlightened2B » Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:03 pm

epiphany55 wrote:
Ok, but surely you have arrived at this conclusion through the same subjectivity that you call reality. If reality itself is subjective, then the only means to reality is through subjective experience/exploration. This puts you completely at the mercy of the chemicals in your brain.


If by you, you mean the means of exploration which is the body/mind, then yes. However, I am not merely my mind/body. :D

Experience through this human body/mind is at the mercy of the chemicals in my brain. Yes. But, subjective exploration of a tree does not involve a brain, nor does a rock or a particle or a cell. They merely just Be as they are. Everything 'Be's' beautifully as IS. The human experience requires a brain. But energy is alive and manifesting via everything. It is just being experienced differently through every physical expression of life whether sentient or not sentient. The subjective experience of a particle or a tree is something that both you and I can never possibly understand while experiencing through these limited human bodies. But, who's to say their experience is any less valid than our own? It's all the same One Being.

If, however, I see a formula or pattern that other subjective consciousnesses confirm they too see, then this consensus could be considered closer to objective reality than one subjective consciousness attempting to decipher all manner of patterns arising in consciousness. Otherwise, what would data being interpreted in the same way by hundreds, thousands, millions of people even mean?


I'm not denying that we all experience one common interactive reality. Of course not. Heck, I'm not delusional! (well maybe I am :wink: ). However, what I am saying is that, the objectivity we believe exists apart from ourselves is only a limited perspective. When you delve into that objectivity, all that's left over is subjectivity through any and every form. All of physical reality is only a co-creation of Being itself Being a human, Being a rock, Being a tree, Being a bird. In your deepest experience of Being, there is only a seamless whole reality which lacks separation. Our mind steps up and starts to label everything as different than us, believing itself to merely be a mind/body. Ultimately, what you experience in that deepest state of Being is Being itself without mind overlaying it. That is exactly the natural "state" of anything and everything. Because humans have the added bonus of an analytical thinking mind (which is a wonderful tool), we love to define and label everything according to our limited understanding of reality and in turn, we create separation.

Yes, and what I find truly fascinating is how many of these experiential perspectives can align to provide a greater confirmation of what is. For example, if I lose the self through meditation, then discover that many people have had this experience, and then in turn discover that in fact no thing we could call self has ever been located in the brain, and in turn read numerous, logically constructed thought experiments on exposing the true nature of self, then this confirmation at each step of the way gives me the conviction to say "I am not a self". Therefore, what am I? Through the aid of consensus, objective data and reason, I am now asking the right questions and not wasting my time on this "self" that I merely thought I was.


I think you're referring to pointing, which is exactly what teachings and such do. I would definitely agree that spiritual teachings, many posters on this forum or the study of non-physical realities (in my case) has helped point me in the direction of Being. But, only very recently when I stopped trying to define and label, have I really started experiencing what I truly am as Pure Unconditional Loving Being. Once experienced, the mind can serve an incredible purpose in our human exploration.
Last edited by Enlightened2B on Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: awareness

Postby rachMiel » Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:08 pm

Rob X wrote:
rachMiel wrote:Conventionally, the wave and the ocean are both objects, one particular, one universal. Ultimately, they are both water (Brahman).

Hey Rach, if we're being picky: Conventionally, the wave and the ocean and the water are objects. Ultimately they are _________

Sorry if you thought I was being picky. For me, the metaphor of wave, ocean, and water works better. You have your particular, your universal, and your _____________ .
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...
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Re: awareness

Postby Enlightened2B » Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:14 pm

Rob X wrote:

I hear what you're saying E2B - maybe it's more semantics. As I see it the 'something-ness' IS inexplicable or unexplainable or mysterious.

The relations of the forms that manifest in its 'expression' can be accounted for in all sorts of meaningful ways but Reality/THIS is beyond our descriptions - we can never get outside of it we can only glimpse it as the 'essence' of our being.


All I'm saying is that the mystery for me only exists when my mind is attempting to define Being as something other than itself....aka the study of consciousness, etc which is a mystery to our limited minds, but human consciousness is just one avenue of experiential exploration for this one Being that is ALL. Nothing wrong with the study of consciousness. I find it enjoyable as well, but is ultimately unrelated I'm finding to opening up my own experience to Pure Unlimited Love. I find that by calling it a mystery, almost creates a divide between Pure Being and the expressive physical form of Being (ex-human body/mind) by taking the position of merely the expressive form and claiming that reality is a mystery. There is not......Being and forms. There is Being being forms. Therefore, it's all One. What IS merely IS. It's what we call Energy. (which is just another label ultimately).

The only mystery for me is that our human mind/bodies are limited in what it can possibly know. Therefore, the greater totality perspective is hidden from us while in these physical forms for likely a very intended purpose of growth.
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Re: awareness

Postby Rob X » Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:16 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:All I'm saying is that the mystery for me only exists when my mind is attempting to define Being as something other than itself....aka the study of consciousness, etc which is a mystery to our limited minds, but human consciousness is just one avenue of experiential exploration for this one Being that is ALL.


That's fair enough. The reason I mentioned inexplicable in the first place was to attempt to clarify something raised in the OP. If the unexplainable _______ is explained away as awareness, it can (and did in the case of the OP) cause puzzlement further down the line. Indeed if the unexplainable _______ is explained or labeled as anything that can (rightly or wrongly) be understood as something relative (and for many, awareness is relative to non-awareness), then confusion will result.

Enlightened2B wrote:The only mystery for me is that our human mind/bodies are limited in what it can possibly know.


Yes.

rachMiel wrote:Sorry if you thought I was being picky.


Hey Rach, I was being lighthearted. Yes, your metaphor works better.
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Re: awareness

Postby rachMiel » Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:16 pm

Rob X wrote:
rachMiel wrote:Sorry if you thought I was being picky.

Hey Rach, I was being lighthearted. Yes, your metaphor works better.

Good to know, thanks.

It got to me a bit because I know I *am* capable of being picky, sometimes for good reasons (truth, justice, and the American way!) and sometimes not so good (missing the forest for the trees).
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