Problems with "Not Having Problems"

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Re: Problems with "Not Having Problems"

Postby rachMiel » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:32 pm

lmp wrote:
rachMiel wrote:I say "take" where Krishnamurti says "fact."

Is it a fact that you say take or is it a take?

:lol: And down the rabbit hole we go ... ! :lol:
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Re: Problems with "Not Having Problems"

Postby Enlightened2B » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:38 pm

lmp wrote:
rachMiel wrote:I say "take" where Krishnamurti says "fact."


Is it a fact that you say take or is it a take?


From the greater totality of Being, what is....is.

But, Being itself is experienced through multiple unique perspectives of everything and everyone in existence in the Universe. Therefore, there is no objectivity, but merely subjective perspectives.

As for your question, what is.....is the greater Perspective of Source Being. What is.....is....a fact.

But, there is no human on the planet that strictly can understand the full meaning of 'what is'. Only the greater perspective of Being has a deeper understanding on what each "is" means for the totality of being. All that we can do from unique limited perspectives is put our limited spin on the 'Is"., just like I am doing right now. The Is itself is a fact, but even the most enlightened gurus, still have coloring to an extent, on top of that 'Is'.

There is no way to become completely unlimited in this human experience. What we are at the core IS unlimited, but because we experience from human perspectives, we are experiencing the Unlimited within the limited confines of the human experience and therefore, will never have the full picture/understanding of any one experience until we die. So, the goal of awakening is to become less and less and less limited by opening up to the more unlimited we can possibly Be in this human life.

Just my take
Last edited by Enlightened2B on Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Problems with "Not Having Problems"

Postby Enlightened2B » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:43 pm

Phil2 wrote:Yawn, is it that late already ? ...

:)



You're like a little kid in your responses. Instead of a mature contribution to my post, this is your response. Basically meaning, you have no response because the jig is up Phil.

Keep resisting. That's all you're doing here. You feel cornered and you feel threatened and I can smell the fear on you and I feel very badly for you, that you claim this bullshit guru status on this board, and deep down inside, you have absolutely no experiential understanding of anything you talk about and ultimately, you are just a scared person attempting to hide behind a facade of quotes, definitions, labels and a computer screen and ultimately, someone who I only can feel intense compassion and love for.
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Re: Problems with "Not Having Problems"

Postby rachMiel » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:45 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:From the greater totality of Being, what is....is.

Let us not forget that "what is" is just a pointer. "That Tao that can be named is not the Tao" kind of thing. You can't name or fathom or even find "what is" ... but you ARE it. And you can consciously be it by being non-judgmentally aware of whatever you are experiencing, right now.
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Re: Problems with "Not Having Problems"

Postby Enlightened2B » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:54 pm

rachMiel wrote:Let us not forget that "what is" is just a pointer. "That Tao that can be named is not the Tao" kind of thing. You can't name or fathom or even find "what is" ... but you ARE it. And you can consciously be it by being aware of whatever you are experiencing, right now.


I'd disagree. What is, IS. It's the entire co-creation of the Universe collectively experiencing to produce.....WHAT IS. Individually, it's this conversation we are having right now. It's the computer you are typing on, the hair on your head, the perspective itself that claims there is no 'What IS'. What is IS anything that it is perceived to be in any given moment. There is no objectivity to 'What IS". What IS is our own subjective interpretations on experience itself that collectively create.....WHAT IS. From the study of NDE's, there very much is a 'what is'. That What Is....is the Greater perspective of Being that none of us can possibly understand in limited human form. To imply that there is no 'what is' is just a play on words to claim that nothing actually exists which is a very limited human perspective. Just because we can't grasp it while in this limited human forms, does not mean it does not exist. It's the same way of claiming something does not exist outside of your field of perception, not understanding that your body/mind is limited in what it can possibly experience. Just because you can't see Pluto, does not mean Pluto does not exist. In the same way, the What is....is all of our perspectives together that create the Greater Perspective of Being....which is....WHAT IS.

From millions and millions of reports of NDE's, there is an absolute purpose to the what is, that can only be understood when we have a grander picture of reality, which we don't have right now.
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Re: Problems with "Not Having Problems"

Postby Webwanderer » Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:35 pm

Phil2 wrote:
1) the first one would be anything that one perceives is a fact, therefore a dream is a fact as WW said above ... also an illusion is a fact ... a mirage in the desert is a fact ... but also ego (which is an illusion created by thought) is also a fact, though a powerful one ...

2) the second one, to which I generally refer, is the common sense of fact, ie. some 'real' thing of the material/manifested world ... in this sense a dream or a belief is not a 'fact' because the dream is a pure product of imagination ... there is no 'substantial' reality ... in this definition, ego is not a fact because ego is unsubstantial, purely conceptual ... this understanding is generally referred to as 'relative facts'


Fact: both of these are clearly wrong. By your definition Phil, can you refute that - even by your own definitions? At best they still badly lack clarifying context.

3) the third one is the absolute fact, and in this sense there is only one real true fact which could be called 'I-am-ness' or beingness or awareness or presence or 'what is' or Self or whatever other name pointing to the reality of being. This is the absolute fact. Which needs no proof and no demonstration, it is obvious and self-evident for anyone.

While I don't disagree with this sentiment, there are plenty of others who will. Have you checked in with the materialist mindset lately? I submit that there is a significant debate awaiting you if you try to make that case to one.

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Re: Problems with "Not Having Problems"

Postby rachMiel » Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:42 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:
rachMiel wrote:Let us not forget that "what is" is just a pointer. "That Tao that can be named is not the Tao" kind of thing. You can't name or fathom or even find "what is" ... but you ARE it. And you can consciously be it by being aware of whatever you are experiencing, right now.


I'd disagree. What is, IS. It's the entire co-creation of the Universe collectively experiencing to produce.....WHAT IS. Individually, it's this conversation we are having right now. It's the computer you are typing on, the hair on your head, the perspective itself that claims there is no 'What IS'. What is IS anything that it is perceived to be in any given moment. There is no objectivity to 'What IS". What IS is our own subjective interpretations on experience itself that collectively create.....WHAT IS. From the study of NDE's, there very much is a 'what is'. That What Is....is the Greater perspective of Being that none of us can possibly understand in limited human form. To imply that there is no 'what is' is just a play on words to claim that nothing actually exists which is a very limited human perspective. Just because we can't grasp it while in this limited human forms, does not mean it does not exist. It's the same way of claiming something does not exist outside of your field of perception, not understanding that your body/mind is limited in what it can possibly experience. Just because you can't see Pluto, does not mean Pluto does not exist. In the same way, the What is....is all of our perspectives together that create the Greater Perspective of Being....which is....WHAT IS.

From millions and millions of reports of NDE's, there is an absolute purpose to the what is, that can only be understood when we have a grander picture of reality, which we don't have right now.

I'm not saying that that which "what is" points to is un-real. (Nor am I saying it IS real.) Alls I'm saying is that it is unfathomable. It's the mystery, in the same way that the Tao and Brahman are the mystery.
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Re: Problems with "Not Having Problems"

Postby lmp » Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:51 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:
lmp wrote:
rachMiel wrote:I say "take" where Krishnamurti says "fact."


Is it a fact that you say take or is it a take?


From the greater totality of Being, what is....is.

But, Being itself is experienced through multiple unique perspectives of everything and everyone in existence in the Universe. Therefore, there is no objectivity, but merely subjective perspectives.

As for your question, what is.....is the greater Perspective of Source Being. What is.....is....a fact.

But, there is no human on the planet that strictly can understand the full meaning of 'what is'. Only the greater perspective of Being has a deeper understanding on what each "is" means for the totality of being. All that we can do from unique limited perspectives is put our limited spin on the 'Is"., just like I am doing right now. The Is itself is a fact, but even the most enlightened gurus, still have coloring to an extent, on top of that 'Is'.

There is no way to become completely unlimited in this human experience. What we are at the core IS unlimited, but because we experience from human perspectives, we are experiencing the Unlimited within the limited confines of the human experience and therefore, will never have the full picture/understanding of any one experience until we die. So, the goal of awakening is to become less and less and less limited by opening up to the more unlimited we can possibly Be in this human life.

Just my take


Will you tell me, if you have examined it, what are some of the major inevitable/inescapable limitations in the human experience that color us, as you see it. And I don't mean simpler things which we can easily do away with.
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Re: Problems with "Not Having Problems"

Postby Onceler » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:15 am

It doesn't sound like anyone really knows what a fact is. I'm not sure I do anymore.
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Re: Problems with "Not Having Problems"

Postby Enlightened2B » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:17 am

lmp wrote:Will you tell me, if you have examined it, what are some of the major inevitable/inescapable limitations in the human experience that color us, as you see it. And I don't mean simpler things which we can easily do away with.


hey lmp,

Well, the big one as I see it, is simply, not understanding the big picture. We can only understand what we individually experience. Meaning, I (under most situations) can not understand what your thoughts/life experiences are nor anyone or anything else's. Because of the limitations of this body/mind, I can only know the thoughts/experiences of this particular body/mind organism. Granted, the more you open to life, you can start to embrace other perspectives that differ from your own, which is when you really start to become more and more unlimited and aligned with a vibration of Love. I don't understand Phil's perspective nor why he says what he says, but I can embrace his perspective in Love in the understanding that some perspectives are more limited than others. I can empathize from his place of fear as well. Yet, I still cannot have the entire picture of the totality while in human form.

There's a reason for that too. We incarnate here intentionally with a veil of limitation as it serves its purpose in our soul/soul group's evolution and growth through our unique experiences. You might incarnate into humanness to experience something such as a disease. While in human form, you have no idea why you are plagued with a particular disease, but from the greater perspective of Being (Soul Perspective, which you will have before you enter physicality and after you leave), you completely understand the purpose of the disease and how it serves in your growth in Love.

In our humanness, often, we have no idea how something we do might vastly affect something or someone else. For example, I might make a verbal comment to someone one day that is rather dismissive. That comment might stick with that person for years and years and years to come and ultimately might condition them in a certain way. Later in life, that person might run into another person and verbally abuse them instead and the latest person gets all defensive, not understanding why the other person could be so mean, not realizing that, that person was conditioned in a certain way by my own verbal comments. Cause and Effect. Well, from the greater perspective of Being, you can see all of the interconnected web of experience and how one thing affects everything else. There is no separation between anything because it's one Energy. Cause and Effect are happening at every level of existence. The more you allow in your experience and the more you embrace outside of your own perspective, the larger view of reality, you will have. But, again, you can not possibly understand all of this alone from your limited human perspective.

There are countless people on this planet wandering around, questioning their existence and questioning why things happen the way they do. 'Why do bad things happen to good people?". That's a pretty common question. And the answer is that we are intentionally limited in understanding the entire picture of Universal knowledge while incarnated into humanness. Yet, we incarnate into these lives often to experience particular things as I discussed above.

So, we might think there is only a separate world of random happenings from our own limited perspectives, when in reality, there is nothing random, but all cause and effect within the Web of life.

This is what I have learned from my own experience and the study of non-physical realities....aka...near death experiences/channeling.
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Re: Problems with "Not Having Problems"

Postby Webwanderer » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:37 am

Great post E2B. Shows real clarity from a larger perspective.




Onceler wrote:It doesn't sound like anyone really knows what a fact is. I'm not sure I do anymore.

This may well be the best thing to come out of this whole discussion.

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Re: Problems with "Not Having Problems"

Postby lmp » Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:23 am

Enlightened2B wrote:
hey lmp,

Well, the big one as I see it, is simply, not understanding the big picture. We can only understand what we individually experience. Meaning, I (under most situations) can not understand what your thoughts/life experiences are nor anyone or anything else's. Because of the limitations of this body/mind, I can only know the thoughts/experiences of this particular body/mind organism. Granted, the more you open to life, you can start to embrace other perspectives that differ from your own, which is when you really start to become more and more unlimited and aligned with a vibration of Love. I don't understand Phil's perspective nor why he says what he says, but I can embrace his perspective in Love in the understanding that some perspectives are more limited than others. I can empathize from his place of fear as well. Yet, I still cannot have the entire picture of the totality while in human form.


I'll take this part first.

If we use the word understanding, without making a complete mystery of it, as you say I or you can understand what we individually experience, my kid, my feeling, your garden, my salary, whatever the examples are. Are the individual experiences important in considering the big picture, or is understanding in itself important? And is what we here refer to as understanding, different from the big picture, which means our understanding is colored by some limitation? After all in some way shape or form the big picture becomes at least conceivable or partially an actuality, our understanding is colored also by that bigger picture, let's say after a NDE.

So, yes our understanding is limited, both in regard to the bigger picture and in daily life. So we might read or listen to someone with a bit bigger understanding.

But what I wish to say is that as understanding reveals more and more at both ends, the human end and the big picture end, if that is indeed what is happening, until for the so called sage much is revealed, then I don't see how understanding can be different from the big picture - it's just limited.

I don't quite see why the human understanding must be limited until what we call death, I don't mind if it is so. Why do you think you said so?
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Re: Problems with "Not Having Problems"

Postby lmp » Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:32 am

I see you provided an answer, which was more or less: in order to experience particular things.
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Re: Problems with "Not Having Problems"

Postby Enlightened2B » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:33 am

lmp wrote:

But what I wish to say is that as understanding reveals more and more at both ends, the human end and the big picture end, if that is indeed what is happening, until for the so called sage much is revealed, then I don't see how understanding can be different from the big picture - it's just limited.

I don't quite see why the human understanding must be limited until what we call death, I don't mind if it is so. Why do you think you said so?


It is limited in what it can possibly know simply because the body/mind is limited. You can't know what I am thinking right now, nor can I know your thoughts and more likely than not, there's a pretty good chance, you'll never be able to read my thoughts. Yet, the greater perspective of Being sure can. Sure you can channel or have a near death experience. But, for most people, barring a near death experience, you will simply not be able to access the totality of Being while incarnated into these human bodies.

If you want to play with semantics, you don't have to utilize the term understanding. However, our knowledge (perhaps as a better term) of a greater perspective is limited. We can't grasp the entire totality while in human form because it's simply not available to us.

You see, in the solipsistic community, people take the direct experience of their body/mind to be the only thing in existence, not realizing there is so much more outside of just our direct perception. Our perception is limited in what it can grasp in each experience.

In the same way, many people (largely in the materialist sector) take their direct experiences of perceived separation and randomness to be exactly what it appears to be and stick to this view like a religion because they have no evidence of a larger perspective. But, that's just because they are assuming that their own direct experience of the limited mind/body is all there is and they can't possibly fathom the idea of a greater totality.


Just my take.
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Re: Problems with "Not Having Problems"

Postby Enlightened2B » Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:06 am

Webwanderer wrote:Great post E2B. Shows real clarity from a larger perspective.




Thanks WW. Appreciate it.
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