What triggers the experience of a sudden/random awakening?

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What triggers the experience of a sudden/random awakening?

Postby Clouded » Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:25 am

Is it an existential thought? Eckhart Tolle questioned the thought "I don't want to live with myself anymore" and afterwards everything became clear to him and he was able to let go of identification with form. Does the higher self decide when to become awakened? I feel like I need to believe that I am pure awareness in order to become awakened but I don't consciously choose my own beliefs and I certainly don't have that belief otherwise I wouldn't be so miserable. I need to experience an OBE or something to change my mind.
"If you want to know what your were like in the past, look at your body today. If you want to know what your body will be like in the future, look at your thoughts today." -Deepak
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Re: What triggers the experience of a sudden/random awakenin

Postby epiphany55 » Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:04 am

We have to define awakening first :lol:

If you mean the realisation of being aware - i.e. becoming aware of being aware - then I would imagine a lot of people are simply pointed towards that realisation through allegory or more direct invitations such as "be that what is aware" or "what is this 'my' that possesses a self?"
Thought is the object, not the essence, of consciousness.
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Re: What triggers the experience of a sudden/random awakenin

Postby Webwanderer » Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:22 pm

Clouded wrote:Does the higher self decide when to become awakened?

Sort of. That which you know as you are an extension of your higher self - your true self. You are it working through the limitation of accumulate belief structures adopted over this physical life time. There is no need to separate the appearance of duality into a belief in duality. You can know it for what it is.

To become awakened is to become experientially aligned with your true nature. The first step is to realize that you are not what you think you are. You can then feel your true nature more clearly in the absence of thought - especially early on when one's focus of self is on a defined thought image.

I feel like I need to believe that I am pure awareness in order to become awakened but I don't consciously choose my own beliefs and I certainly don't have that belief otherwise I wouldn't be so miserable. I need to experience an OBE or something to change my mind.


Generally, it doesn't seem to be that we consciously choose our own beliefs. But we do. It's just that most of what we consciously chose to believe was so far back in our life experience that we no longer remember how we chose it. Now, that choosing is more unconscious simply based on the acceptance of that early conditioning and that we don't make the focused effort to do what's necessary to re-create our perspective. We really can however, change that conditioning and choose new beliefs. Beliefs tend to evolve anyway over time but we can engage that change more directly if we choose to.

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Re: What triggers the experience of a sudden/random awakenin

Postby Phil2 » Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:32 am

Clouded wrote: I feel like I need to believe that I am pure awareness in order to become awakened but I don't consciously choose my own beliefs and I certainly don't have that belief otherwise I wouldn't be so miserable. I need to experience an OBE or something to change my mind.


When asked by a journalist in an interview if he believed in God, Carl Jung answered

"I don't believe in God ... I know"

Belief is a choice we make ... knowing is a direct experience ... so why not experience awareness, instead of 'believing' in awareness ?

??
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Re: What triggers the experience of a sudden/random awakenin

Postby ashley72 » Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:30 pm

Clouded wrote:Is it an existential thought? Eckhart Tolle questioned the thought "I don't want to live with myself anymore" and afterwards everything became clear to him and he was able to let go of identification with form. Does the higher self decide when to become awakened? I feel like I need to believe that I am pure awareness in order to become awakened but I don't consciously choose my own beliefs and I certainly don't have that belief otherwise I wouldn't be so miserable. I need to experience an OBE or something to change my mind.


Clouded,

If you study quantum computing & cellular automata... you realise that the underlying Universe is inherently a computational machine.

If you study machine learning you realise simple Universal algorithms of nature create all the complexity you see around you from small rules, including the ability for humans to perceive, learn, memorise etc.

The individual can't stop perceiving just as the individual can't stop breathing or farting... The individual does have some causal power,over abstract ideas, but it's limited to the macro level coarse grain meaning it detects from coarse grain patterns it perceives.

The reality is there are two distinct Selves or I's, a physical one made up of quantum fluctatations (primary domain), and abstract self that is made of symbols or mappings at a very coarse grain depiction of the physical domain of quantum fluctuations, otherwise called the target domain. You can't get rid of either I... and why would you? The target domain "I" derives meaning at a much broader scope by chunking many things into sub-groups.

You only have to use the analogy of a hardware and software to see how each layer plays its role. Imagine a robot without the software? It wouldn't be able to chunk meaning out of its environment without the softwares ability to be flexible & fluid with its abstraction.
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Re: What triggers the experience of a sudden/random awakenin

Postby ashley72 » Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:49 pm

Clouded,

Ask yourself what is "meaning" or "perception" structurally? What is the scaffolding or sub-parts that make "meaning/perception" what it is??

Have you ever really thought about what this fundamental process is... which is so core to being human????

Imagine an ocean wave that had enough complexity that it could map in a coarse grain way it's own surroundings. It might experience itself as an individual wave but with certain rules that govern its behaviour. It may be unconscious to its underlying interconnectedness with other individual waves...its coarse grain mapping may not detect that underlying aspect of wholeness.
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Re: What triggers the experience of a sudden/random awakenin

Postby lmp » Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:37 am

So, dear members responding in this thread. What do you think is the right response to clouded? Should he be concerned with his misery, or clarity, or identification with form, or the higher self, should he experience pure awareness, or have an OBE, or become awakened, or believe something, or should the higher self decide for him.

What is the correct answer?
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Re: What triggers the experience of a sudden/random awakenin

Postby Phil2 » Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:09 am

lmp wrote:What is the correct answer?


Keep quiet ... don't worry and be happy ...

:)
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Re: What triggers the experience of a sudden/random awakenin

Postby ashley72 » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:33 am

lmp wrote:So, dear members responding in this thread. What do you think is the right response to clouded? Should he be concerned with his misery, or clarity, or identification with form, or the higher self, should he experience pure awareness, or have an OBE, or become awakened, or believe something, or should the higher self decide for him.

What is the correct answer?


Clouded is suffering from GAD. He doesn't like the anxious states he endures on a daily basis... so he's hoping he can escape it by embodying pure awareness, higher self or enlightenment. Which we all know deep down is a fanciful ideal nothing more, nothing less. :lol:

His misery/suffering is due to actually battling with intrusive or unwanted thoughts & feelings which are symptoms of being in an anxious state....RATHER THAN EXPOSURE. This causes a positive feedback of increasing anxiety.... extremely unpleasant place to be.... I've been there and no first hand the misery of such a losing battle. :wink:

What Clouded needs to do, is stop battling with these intrusive or unwanted thoughts.... expose himself to the intrusive thoughts & feelings without trying to avoid them in anyway.

Drop the idea of reaching some blissful state of all-knowing.... its a mirage. The only thing you need to know is to stop anxiety you need to exposure yourself to the fear... and stop treating it as dangerous...but rather something unpleasant which is completely tolerable and acceptable part of life.

After a while the anxiety decreases, and you stop getting intrusive thoughts & feelings. You go back to a normal happy life which we all deserve. :D
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Re: What triggers the experience of a sudden/random awakenin

Postby lmp » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:23 pm

ashley72 wrote:
Clouded is suffering from GAD.



It sounds terrible.

ashley72 wrote:
His misery



Correct.

ashley72 wrote:What Clouded needs to do, is stop battling with these intrusive or unwanted thoughts.... expose himself to the intrusive thoughts & feelings without trying to avoid them in anyway.

Drop the idea of reaching some blissful state of all-knowing.... its a mirage. The only thing you need to know is to stop anxiety you need to exposure yourself to the fear... and stop treating it as dangerous...but rather something unpleasant which is completely tolerable and acceptable part of life.

After a while the anxiety decreases, and you stop getting intrusive thoughts & feelings. You go back to a normal happy life which we all deserve. :D




Will clouded do this?
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Re: What triggers the experience of a sudden/random awakenin

Postby Clouded » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:42 pm

I'm a woman, not that it really matters here.

She doesn't like the anxious states she endures on a daily basis... so she's hoping she can escape it by embodying pure awareness, higher self or enlightenment.


That's pretty much it. I honestly thought that by becoming like Eckhart Tolle and other gurus, I would become more confident in my self, get rid of all the emotional baggage that I have been dragging with myself for years and be less likely to worry about the future/bad outcomes and somehow, after enough meditation, I would become optimistic, inspired and motivated to do something great and fulfilling with my life. I am tired of sabotaging my life, I have spent nearly 2 years doing nothing and I'm too nervous and go out in the world because I believe that I will fail again, I am terrified of experiencing panic attacks and insomnia again, and seeing other people succeed and have happy lives while all I do is lock myself in my parents' house to whine and create more drama kills me inside.

I don't have high hopes for myself, I really don't and I am aiming low, very low.
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Re: What triggers the experience of a sudden/random awakenin

Postby Webwanderer » Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:49 am

Clouded, imagine yourself to be the woman you want to be. Don't link it to the experience you have at present as if what is discounts your preference. It doesn't. What happens in the present is not relevant to what you prefer - unless you believe it is. And if you believe it is relevant then it is relevant - but only because you believe it. If you believe it is not relevant then you free yourself from its trap and the never ending cycle you find yourself in. You can be free. I speak from experience.

By imagining the woman you want to be, and 'believing' with your deepest feeling sense that that woman is one possibility that is available as your living experience, you set the vibratory conditions for that preference to become your reality. Are there not endless possibilities in life? Truly consider it. It's how the universe works after all. It is the essence of LoA. Other possibilities exist - unless you believe they don't. That they don't of course, is just one possibility. Why focus there when there are other options that will make you life better.

So many focus on and believe in 'can't' that it's one of the more common experiences - limitation and failure. The reason it is difficult to realize we can have a better life experience is because we tend to put too much emphasis on the current reality as proof that it doesn't work. That emphasis is a deal killer. Change the meaning you apply to present conditions to that which makes it irrelevant to your preferred interests. Then enjoy your interests, even though they only 'exist' in imagination. The universe doesn't care. It will feed them substance just the same.

Let go of your concern for present conditions. Just be okay that things are the way they are and that they can change. Believe it because it is true. It is also true that the happy woman you can imagine yourself to be is a real possibility. To the extent that you believe it is a possibility it draws substance to itself as manifestation. There may be an ebb and flow to it, but small insights will begin to influence your everyday experience. Subtle changes will begin happening.

As you continue to imagine with feeling, and rest in the enjoyment of your envisioning day after day, more insights will come and you will begin to notice real changes in your life experience. When you get caught up in the same old same old, let it go as soon as you can and get back to the belief in the possible. Never discount it. Just look at the present as one possibility that can change. One that you are no longer attached to but simply okay with.

Meditation is helpful, but the quality and direction of that meditation is critical. Pay attention to your feelings. Feel your way to alignment and then to the vision you prefer. It is the essence of creation in life experience.

There are those who will dismiss this as nonsense. Pay attention to them at your own peril. They are only showing you the way to more of the experience you already have, and you don't seem to like it. I am certainly glad I did not listen to those who tried to get me to 'face reality'. Reality is experience, nothing more. I no longer fear what the nay sayers say. I've seen more than enough in my own experience.

You can influence reality - your own experience - with a clear understanding and focused perspective of thought and belief. You only need to believe what you imagine as a real possibility. It is a real vibration and that is enough to make it a real manifestation. Enjoy the idea of what you want.

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Re: What triggers the experience of a sudden/random awakenin

Postby Clouded » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:54 am

The reason it is difficult to realize we can have a better life experience is because we tend to put too much emphasis on the current reality as proof that it doesn't work.

I really like this, it makes sense.

It is also true that the happy woman you can imagine yourself to be is a real possibility.

I know, but it requires a lot of time and effort to become who I wish I want to be (so I could be happy with myself). I have to go from -100 to 100, I have to do a complete 180 degree change in my self perception. I'm not a happy person. I tried being happy with how things are right now (because you don't really NEED anything to be happy) and it doesn't work. I feel trapped, I don't like living like this, and I certainly don't want to live like this for the rest of my life but I also feel comfort in this prison. In the book Hardwiring Happiness (you can read it here: http://www.mypositivepath.org/book/Hardwiring%20Happiness%20The%20New%20Brain%20Science%20of%20Contentment,%20Calm,%20and%20Confidence.pdf) It talks about 3 essential needs for humans: safety, satisfaction and connection. I feel lacking in the latter 2 and when my dad goes into a range and I have to lock myself in the bathroom so he can't hurt me, I feel none.
You only need to believe what you imagine as a real possibility.

The sad thing is that I believe that only bad things will happen to me. Good things seem too good to be true. I feel like I would be delusional if I believed that good things were coming my way. I don't believe that I will move out of my parents house before I'm in my 30s but when I get a worrisome physical symptom, I believe that I must have some fatal illness and I'm afraid that this belief will turn out to be true. :roll:
"If you want to know what your were like in the past, look at your body today. If you want to know what your body will be like in the future, look at your thoughts today." -Deepak
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Re: What triggers the experience of a sudden/random awakenin

Postby Phil2 » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:23 am

Clouded wrote:The sad thing is that I believe that only bad things will happen to me. Good things seem too good to be true. I feel like I would be delusional if I believed that good things were coming my way. I don't believe that I will move out of my parents house before I'm in my 30s but when I get a worrisome physical symptom, I believe that I must have some fatal illness and I'm afraid that this belief will turn out to be true. :roll:


Clouded, I disagree with WW when he says "imagine yourself to be the woman you want to be" ...
of course this is typical LoA stuff but I disagree with this in your specific situation.

What you need is not to create another 'should be' (this can only create more stress and anxiety in your life) but rather to fully accept the situation you are in ... in order to change things, 'what is' must first be accepted as it is, Tolle's teachings 101 I 'd say ... and also Byron Katie (Love 'what is') ...

So for instance, why do you create a problem with staying with your parents in your 30's ? ... this is not a problem at all ... just society's norms say that you have to leave your parents before 30 ... but does your mother tell you so ? Does your mother ask you to leave the house ? This is now a general trend everywhere in the world, with the economical crisis more and more young people stay longer in their parent's home, mainly for financial reasons, and I see no problem with this when your parents really love you ... and it is not because your father shouts on you from time to time that he does not love you Clouded ... he just 'reacts' from his own inner drama/movie (read again Don Miguel Ruiz) ...

??

First accept what you are as you are Clouded, this is the key for a real and radical change ... and this change is not about your life conditions, it is about HOW you see your life ... happiness does not depend on your outer conditions Clouded ... it depends on how you see it ... happiness is totally 'subjective' ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
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Re: What triggers the experience of a sudden/random awakenin

Postby Webwanderer » Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:35 pm

Phil2 wrote:What you need is not to create another 'should be'

Phil has this completely wrong. But I appreciate his pointing out a common trap. I said nothing about 'should be's'. Avoid them. It's more about 'could' be's. Note the distinction. I said enjoy the possible to create the vibratory energy that creates the experience. Don't make present conditions wrong as that only gives them more energy through attention. They are what they are because of a previous and current focus and resulting energizing. Simply know things can change and imagine with feeling what that change would be like. Make no comparison that leads to what's not. Just enjoy the possible. Believe the possible already exists as a possibility. It does.

I experienced the same thing with naysayers. They kept injecting 'can't' and 'face reality'. Well, facing reality can be a trap if you believe it's the only possibility. Remember that experience is reality, and experience is strongly related to perspective. Believing that conditions and experience can change for the better is the first step. Enjoying imagining how things could be and are possible creates the template for the change you prefer.

There is a lot of momentum in your current experience as it is with all of us. It can take some time, but change is possible and will happen if you hold the possible in your consciousness with some consistency. If you hold can't in consciousness that will get energized.

What do you believe? I suggest you believe this: Current conditions can change. A joyful and happy woman is possible. Now imagine what that woman would feel like. Alignment through meditation and/or breathing exercises will help set the conditions for imagining the possible with feeling, so make use of them.

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