Me

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)

Re: Me

Postby Phil2 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:23 am

Enlightened2B wrote:
It doesn't matter what Krishnamurti or Eckhart Tolle said. The question is....what does Phil say? What is Phil's experience? What is Phil's insight?


Phil says: learn to be quiet ... don't worry and be happy ...

:D
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Me

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:57 pm

epiphany55 wrote:It's not the job of science to embrace any perspective and especially not belief.


Belief? The study of the non-physical (near death experiences, OBE's, etc) is not belief, unless you believe it to be a belief. That science fails to incorporate this research (or I should say, most of modern science), just goes to show the dogmatic nature of what science considers to be actual evidence. It's science's responsibility to incorporate all of the information available to make a more accurate assessment, and what most of modern science does, is only incorporate part of the picture.

When 10 people are claiming to have wild near death experiences, I would agree with science that it is likely not worth studying. When millions upon millions upon millions (many who haven't even come forward) are having incredibly similar experiences, it's science's job to expand their own belief systems to incorporate a different paradigm for doing research.

I'm not the most scientific person, but it's the same way in modern medicine where conventional medicine largely resorts to drugs to treat patients because it fails to take into account that people are not merely just blood and flesh, but merely whole Beings. The fact that modern medicine fails to incorporate a whole-istic approach in treating patients, just goes to show why the US is one of the sickest nations in the world....as it's run by the pharmaceutical industry. Therefore, modern medicine is focused on treating the effects, in the same way that modern science is merely studying the effects and not the cause.

If science is only incorporating part of the picture, that is most certainly their job and most certainly why they will never fully come to understand who and what we truly are by studying the physical universe alone.
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Re: Me

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:02 pm

Phil2 wrote:
Enlightened2B wrote:
It doesn't matter what Krishnamurti or Eckhart Tolle said. The question is....what does Phil say? What is Phil's experience? What is Phil's insight?


Phil says: learn to be quiet ... don't worry and be happy ...

:D


Who says I'm worrying about anything at all? Who says I'm not happy?

You say be quiet, yet you have 1267 posts on this board. Are you being quiet Phil? :wink:
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Re: Me

Postby Webwanderer » Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:37 pm

epiphany55 wrote:
It's not the job of science to embrace any perspective and especially not belief.

And yet they do just that. Therein lies the problem. (Actually 'science' itself does nothing, scientists do.) Who do you believe and why? What weight do you give this body of information as compared to that? Who is responsible for a fair consideration, and ultimately, what you believe. Who's life experience is effected by one belief over another, and how?

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Re: Me

Postby Phil2 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:38 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:
You say be quiet, yet you have 1267 posts on this board. Are you being quiet Phil? :wink:


Because you make a confusion between outer silence (of speech) and inner silence (of thought/self) ... some persons like Eckhart Tolle or Krishnamurti made lots of talks and books, but it all arose out of inner stillness ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Me

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:11 pm

Phil2 wrote:
Enlightened2B wrote:
You say be quiet, yet you have 1267 posts on this board. Are you being quiet Phil? :wink:


Because you make a confusion between outer silence (of speech) and inner silence (of thought/self) ... some persons like Eckhart Tolle or Krishnamurti made lots of talks and books, but it all arose out of inner stillness ...


Oh ok Phil. You're right. I'm very confused. I need a teacher like you to help me. Do you offer private sessions? I just wish I can reach the level of enlightenment that you show on this board. Basically, I see where I have been wrong all along and you have been completely right. Your life is filled with complete inner silence and you are an awakened guru, while my life is not filled with inner silence. Gotcha. Now, I understand how this works!

All of this spiritual searching finally makes sense!

Thanks for clarifying Phil!
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Re: Me

Postby Phil2 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:16 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:
Phil2 wrote:
Enlightened2B wrote:
You say be quiet, yet you have 1267 posts on this board. Are you being quiet Phil? :wink:


Because you make a confusion between outer silence (of speech) and inner silence (of thought/self) ... some persons like Eckhart Tolle or Krishnamurti made lots of talks and books, but it all arose out of inner stillness ...


Oh ok Phil. You're right. I'm very confused. I need a teacher like you to help me. Do you offer private sessions? I just wish I can reach the level of enlightenment that you show on this board. Basically, I see where I have been wrong all along and you have been completely right. Your life is filled with complete inner silence and you are an awakened guru, while my life is not filled with inner silence. Gotcha. Now, I understand how this works!

All of this spiritual searching finally makes sense!

Thanks for clarifying Phil!


Are you 'irritated' ? Did I 'touch' some painful area ?

??
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Me

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:41 pm

Phil2 wrote:
Are you 'irritated' ?

??


I am a human being and I don't hide my emotions like you do. YOU don't irritate me. What irritates me, is not your position on things, it's how you say one thing and then don't follow it up with your actions. It's the same as shooting someone with a gun and then in the exact same breath, turning to someone else and saying that guns are bad. It's a form of delusion which you openly display on this board and a form of narcissism. Are you ever irritated Phil? Of course you are. Why else would you have felt the need to respond today and tell me to 'be quiet' to a post that was already two days old. Because, my response hit a nerve with YOU and you couldn't simply let it be. YOU wanted to have the last say.

Not to mention that you were apparently also quite irritated by previous posts of mine and others which is the reason you went ahead and created the 'emotional intelligence' post to whine about other people on this board and likely the other board you're a regular on as well, just like you were irritated and whined about Ashley when you lobbied to throw him off the board, because you feel threatened by anything you don't understand, just like you do with Jack's posts and exactly like you do with my posts. When Jack and I corner you to display some humanness, you shiver in fear and cower away from conversations in the classic narcisstic defense mode of merely firing back transparent, non related retorts or quotes from teachers that you've basically learned nothing from.

Likely, you will learn nothing from my post here either as you either don't comprehend it, or are in vast denial about yourself.

I feel for you because, most of all you show absolutely no love on this board, no compassion for others and no empathy that you can actually put yourself in another's shoes. You like to see how you irritate other posters which is a form of sociopathic tendencies. Is this really what you've learned from Eckhart Tolle's teachings? Asking others if they are irritated by your posts as if to say you are an enlightened guru who never gets irritated?

You need help Phil. I mean this lovingly to you. Up until the other day, I was trying to ponder you and ponder why you never seem to grasp what anyone points out to you, until it finally clicked that you really need help and I think you are utilizing spiritual teachings as an escape. You show the classic signs of someone who is really crying out for help and I don't know how to help you. I wish I could.

I think the only person on this board, who responds to you in the most helpful manner is SmileyJen. But, it sounds like you don't really grasp what she is saying either.

So, go ahead and come back with another defensive retort as you always do or some other quote from a teacher that has nothing to do with your own experience.

Much love to you Phil
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Re: Me

Postby Phil2 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:20 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:Much love to you Phil


Do you really mean this ? ... or is it a wishful thinking ? ... kind of mantra that you repeat endlessly ?

Personally I do not perceive this as very credible ... because telling me that I need help, which is another way to tell me that I am insane, then telling me you send me love is very contradictory ... am I wrong or what ?

??
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Me

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:35 pm

Phil2 wrote:
Enlightened2B wrote:Much love to you Phil


Do you really mean this ? ... or is it a wishful thinking ? ... kind of mantra that you repeat endlessly ?

Personally I do not perceive this as very credible ... because telling me that I need help, which is another way to tell me that I am insane, then telling me you send me love is very contradictory ... am I wrong or what ?

??


Telling someone they need help is a form of love. But, I don't think you understand what love is, other than conceptually, which is perhaps why you question my motives. I think you need help, from reading your posts. I think your posts (to me) speak out that someone is crying out for help.

I always observe myself, in my reactions to others to see if I am approaching from love or fear. There's no question that I get irritated by other people at times and it can very well show in my posts. That's my ego speaking. But, what is wrong with that? I'm a human being and so are you. I'm not perfect and I can admit that. None of us are ego free Phil. I make sure that when I respond to you, I don't respond with the intention to hurt you, while you on the other hand seemingly look to ignite arguments on the board which means the intention is to hurt others. It's not just me. There are countless other posters who have pointed this out to you. I always respond with the intention, to attempt to help you see things within yourself and often, they might involve ultimately, hurting you, such as telling you that I believe you need help.

Love is honesty Phil. I'm being honest with you, in telling you that from your reading your posts all throughout the past year ( I don't know you personally), it seems to me, that you need a form of help, away from spirituality, because I think spiritual teachings has become a form of drug to you. If I didn't feel love for you, I wouldn't tell you this. I believe your perspective is incredibly narrow and limited, but that doesn't mean it's wrong on any level and I love you for your own uniqueness!

However, it seems to me, that your intention is hurt other people, and judge other people and considering you post more than anyone else on this board, it's hard not getting into a discussion with you, without bringing this up. You preach and you preach and you preach, but you don't follow your actions, because you judge, you judge and you judge, you call other perspectives that differ from your own as 'erroneous'. You inexplicably got involved with Ashley in attempt to get him thrown off the site just because his perspective differed from your own. You're incredibly transparent and I think the majority of the posters on this board have already seen that. But, I just wonder if you, yourself can look in the mirror, just once and see that.

Perhaps, you're right and I should mind my own business here let you continue to do, what you do. But, I felt the need to express this to you.

With that, I very much DO love you and feel love for you and I hope you can and do find the help you need in whatever capacity it might bring.
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Re: Me

Postby Phil2 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:45 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:Telling someone they need help is a form of love.


No I don't think so ... when you love someone you do not tell him he needs help, you just help him ... telling someone that he needs help is another way to discredit or disparage someone and showing him that he is wrong, because of his insanity, hence that you are right and sane ... it is another trick of ego in disguise of love ... will you recognize this ?
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Me

Postby Phil2 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:51 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:I'm a human being and so are you.


Aren't you formless awareness ?

??
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
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Re: Me

Postby epiphany55 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:55 pm

Enlightened and WW, you both acknowledge that it is scientists (human beings), not science itself, that can be subject to closed mindedness. I agree with this, although this only reasserts the need to encourage the take up of science in our schools and universities in order to keep a broad profile of scientists coming through.

No, we don't just want scientists able to jump through their academic hoops. We want more Carl Sagan's, Roger Penrose's, Freeman Dyson's, Sam Harris's, Neil Degrasse Tyson's. We want mavericks, outside-box-thinkers, pioneers.

We want philosophy to inform scientific hypothesis. Big time.

But there was a more important point in my last post, which can be summed up as - don't trust the subjective mind. Is this not ET's message? Experience should be unbounded, but to use your mind to try and explain your experiences, without the rigour of reason and verification, is to be subject to its capacity for elaborate illusion.

Science does not = materialism.

Materialism = the depth of what we currently know about the universe and reality. Depths can (and will) be deepened!

Ye of little faith.
Last edited by epiphany55 on Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Me

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:56 pm

Phil2 wrote:
Enlightened2B wrote:Telling someone they need help is a form of love.


No I don't think so ... when you love someone you do not tell him he needs help, you just help him ... telling someone that he needs help is another way to discredit or disparage someone and showing him that he is wrong, because of his insanity, hence that you are right and sane ... it is another trick of ego in disguise of love ... will you recognize this ?


How am I supposed to help you without telling you? Have I not tried COUNTLESS times on this forum to reach out to you? Would like me to come to you in person to your house and attempt to work with you? Not to mention that everytime I've tried to get you to open up your perspective and help you, you respond with a defensive post JUST like this one, in an attempt to deflect the issue back to me. You don't WANT help. That's the problem, but you NEED it. I don't think I'm doing a good enough job because I think my posts are just making you more defensive and this is why I'm stopping after this one. Look how you just flipped it around on me once again (in the above bold) to attempt to deflect it back to me. This is the same kind of behavior, of someone who is in great denial bout them self.

I'm done here Phil. And I mean it. I'm done. There's nothing left to say.

Only Love to you Phil
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Re: Me

Postby Enlightened2B » Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:00 am

epiphany55 wrote:Enlightened and WW, you both acknowledge that it is scientists (human beings), not science itself, that can be subject to closed mindedness. I agree with this, although this only reasserts the need to encourage the take up of science in our schools and universities in order to keep a broad profile of scientists coming through.

No, we don't just want scientists able to jump through their academic hoops. We want more Carl Sagan's, Roger Penrose's, Freeman Dyson's, Sam Harris's, Neil Degrasse Tyson's. We want mavericks, outside-box-thinkers, pioneers.


Roger Penrose and Carl Sagan, yes, but those other guys you mentioned are not exactly 'outside the box thinkers'. Neil Degrasse Tyson? hmmm. Not so sure about that. That guy is pretty much on Lawrence Kraus's stage. You want an outside the box thinker? Look into Tom Campbell's work or John Hagelin. But, Tom Campbell especially. These are mainstream physicists who are not afraid to stick it to the rest of the science community by REALLY going outside the box and that's what we really need. I would include Roger Penrose in there too actually.

But there was a more important point in my last post, which can be summed up as - don't trust the subjective mind. Is this not ET's message? Experience should be unbounded, but to use your mind to try and explain your experiences, without the rigour of reason and verification, is to be subject to its capacity for elaborate illusion.


Can't say I disagree with this. Although, I'm not sure the reference for this pertaining to science.

That aside, if we would stop much of the conceptual talk about science and other topics (in relation to awakening), and simply Be with our experience, we wouldn't even need science to validate to us where consciousness comes from or who we are. There's really only Love in our direct experience. I actually have no problem with science. I actually laugh at some of the mainstream dudes because of how close minded they tend to be. But, it doesn't affect any of us when we know our true nature as Being.

On the other hand, I enjoy a good debate about science.

Science does not = materialism.


You're right. It doesn't. What I meant was that much of modern scientists have a materialist outlook, by merely focusing on the physical study of the universe.

Materialism = the depth of what we currently know about the universe and reality. Depths can (and will) be deepened!


Trust me. I've learned more from studying NDE's than I can possibly care to know about the physical universe itself. It just doesn't appeal to me anymore. The physical Universe is all we have. Don't get me wrong. But, learning more about other substances of the Universe or what black holes are, are minisucle, compared to the insight I've gained from the study of non-physical realities.

I hate to use the movie screen reference because it really creates duality. But, let's do it here:

Many modern scientists approach is equivalent to studying the objects moving on a movie screen and ignoring the fact that the objects are not real. You can't separate Being from the expression itself of Being. There is only Being. Studying the physical universe in the way that modern science approaches it, is essentially believing yourself to be something separate from that which is being expressed. It's almost comical to watch and yet I have compassion for these scientists because they are largely lost in their own limited beliefs of ego. It's all good.
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