Awake pain body at the workplace

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Re: Awake pain body at the workplace

Postby Enlightened2B » Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:07 pm

ZZ top, I've read and heard very good things about hypnosis and actually looking to delve into it for regression therapy.

On a practical level, mindfulness meditation can be really useful if one applies it properly. For me it's only the very tip of the iceberg spiritually speaking, but so very important and useful. The idea being, not to focus on negativity, but merely to allow that strong emotion of perceived negativity to be there by just observing it and being in love with it without resistance and learning to accept the human condition where anxiety, stress and other perceived negative emotions stem from as part of conditioning from this life and multiple other incarnated lives. You can only accept this, when you stand apart as the observer of the situation and see that it's just conditioned thought patterns that are being believed to create suffering.

Russ Harris author of 'The Reality Slap' (recommended by SmileJen) calls it 'dropping anchor'. Meaning, when a stressful situation occurs, you drop anchor by focusing your attention momentarily on something such as the breath, the inner body etc, which calms you down and then you can see the emotions arise more clearly instead of becoming the emotions themselves. At this point, you can then focus your attention on to something more positive.

It's not about eliminating the strong emotions or suppressing them. It's about accepting them as they arise, and making room/space for them. But instead of just observing them, shifting your attention elsewhere as there's no purpose in merely observing negativity for long periods of time as that is only re-enforcing that negative experience in your life. Your experience is dictated by what you focus on. You don't have to uproot every single belief you have. That's too stressful and way too time consuming and unnecessary. Instead, you can make the beliefs conscious by learning to observe them, and accept them with love, and observe yourself in how you relate to others and other things. Relationships are all around us and are our greatest tool here in this physical life.

Consider that you choose to come into this life in order to work on those things that you need to work on which is carried over from previous lives into this one, kind of like karma, although minus the eastern slant to it. It's your choice to be here in physicalness to learn that which you is still energetically unresolved. You accomplish that work by learning who you truly are, by your relationships and experiences, you become more and more conscious in your everyday experience that your nature is Love or Consciousness, IF you start to observe that you are not your mind. So, mindfulness can really help us to just be more conscious of our own thought processes as that main first step. Then you can focus your attention on things that bring more happiness and joy to your life. Love accepts and flows, while fear contracts and resists. The fear will still arise at certain times, but the more conscious it is made, the less impact it will have on your experience.

For me, it's the thought that I am not merely just a human, which I focus my attention on which brings much more happiness and joy to my own life in any given moment. A sort of remembrance of who I am.
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Re: Awake pain body at the workplace

Postby Onceler » Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:40 pm

Zizitop wrote:
It takes indeed a lot of time to overcome our past conditioning and repetitive thought and emotional patters, what Eckhart talk about as liberation. I also believe that there is some kind of natural intelligence to determine what needs our attention, but I also think that this natural capacity can hardly (or even not) flourish when consiousness and unconsciousness are not in accordance with each other. So I think that being conscious of unconscious patterns makes that you are not 'taken over' by any negative pattern, although you're not changing this unconscious pattern as such (or at least not within a couple of weeks or months). I suppose that consiously striving for inner peace can create an intern conflict when there exist unconsious negative thought and emotional patterns who are opposite oriented. So in this perspective, I think it's good that the unconsious patterns get a push in the right direction, for example by the use of hypnosis or self-hypnosis. In this state, unconsiuous patterns can be relativized and alternative habits or conducts can be suggested. Later on, ego or pain body can still come to the surface, but it's then acceptable for the unconscious mind that the consious focus can be shifted towards neutral or positive things. No intern conflict anymore, and natural and automatic intelligence can develop and fulfill its function. I must admit though that this is a little guesswork, but I think it's a good way to come to a nice synthesis.


Find out who you are. Not that it's bad in and of it's self, but self hypnosis (and meditation and breath work, and yoga, and drinking, and work, and tv, and Internet, and salvation in any form, etc) can just be more avoidance. Go deeper, to your core. Simply ask how it feels to be me? And wait for the feeling of you. This is more profound than anything you can do, in my opinion. It's interesting that even though it is so simple, our fears keep us from doing it. In that way it's very difficult. We say, well maybe self hypnosis will work, or that sounds too easy to be a thing.....there is nothing to be lost and a lot to be gained with this kind of self inquiry.

Find that in you that cannot be harmed or helped. That doesn't change. That is inmutable and eternal.
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Re: Awake pain body at the workplace

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:24 pm

Onceler wrote:and meditation and breath work, and yoga, and drinking, and work, and tv, and Internet, and salvation in any form, etc) can just be more avoidance.


Not sure I see the correlation between meditation/breath work and the other activities you mention liked drinking/tv/internet, etc.

Meditation does not have to be a dogmatic formal practice, but can be done anywhere at anytime if one understands what mindfulness is. I find it as simple as a form of grounding practice. Even if one does attain realization that 'I AM', similar to the realization attained in John Sherman's 'Just One Look', does not (in my opinion) preclude that you will not need some sort of grounding practice at any given time, during, a potential stressful situation, similar to ET's inner body method.

In addition, self hypnosis is a whole notha thing. But, hypnosis in general, working with a therapist and a potential channel, in regards to past life regression therapy has been documented as intensely healing for countless people.
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Re: Awake pain body at the workplace

Postby Onceler » Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:32 pm

I don't mean to negate anyone's path, but if I can offer a helpful focus and help others avoid the dead ends I came to I will. Of course there is the theory that we need to try all this ourselves and I needed to seek for 30 years to get where I started.

I look at it this way. Meditation of all sorts, and I tried most of them, chanting, breathwork, mindfulness, and all the spiritual practices are not bad in and of themselves. I practice Qi Gong daily.....but they divert us from the real deal, who we are and seeing who we are. Our fear drives us to create safety structures like meditation to cushion us from life. We engage in all kinds of magical thinking behavior that that keeps the fear at bay and gives us the sensation, however momentary of safety and peace. But this is backwards. We are trying to get to ourselves by slowly erecting defense mechanisms to work backward toward ourselves.....covering our backsides as we retreat toward what we think is safety. This cushions us from life itself. And when this doesn't work we divert ourselves with tv, Internet, booze, drugs and sex, thinking the answer is there. So yes, I lump them all together because they don't take us to where we really need to go.

Rather than retreat backwards toward ourselves, or toward where we think we need to go, which I might suggest is a vague feeling state we might call "enlightenment", I'm saying go straight to the source. You. Summon all your focus and control, don't think and catch a brief look at who you are and do it whenever it occurs to you to do it. This will set a new baseline, you will realize that you are not your life and that self improvement and practice is futile (how can you improve on something that can't be harmed and is eternal). And this act also eradicates fear.

All those structures and defenses that took years to assemble will take time to disassemble and deconstruct, but they will. It's painful at times to be living life in the raw and to be stripped of our normal defenses. As things deconstruct we begin to find we are not afraid even though life is difficult and we have greater resources to deal with life, as our maladaptive defenses sapped our energy and clarity. We can use meditation, mindfullness, etc, for the purpose I believe they were formed, to balance our energies and add clarity and joy to life, not as vehicles of salvation they have become.

As I said, I'm not trying to talk anyone out of their search, this is just my take on things after a lifetime of poking around beautiful, but confusing, ally's and byways of spiritual and psychological terrain. Just try the self inquiry. There's nothing to lose, accept a couple of minutes of your life....no money, no belief shift, no dogma.

John Sherman's website explains the act of looking in greater detail: justonelook.org
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Re: Awake pain body at the workplace

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:55 pm

Can't disagree with you Onceler about your basic premise. I think you bring up some good points. I've done John sherman's method as well and I find it very helpful along with 'awareness watching awareness' (minus the dogma of that online book) and the pointing method in the realization that 'I AM' along with reading posts on this board (Kiki's posts were initially so helpful for me in that self realization aspect when I first joined). It all comes back to that simple notion of BEING or 'I AM' which, I very much agree with you that is so simple to acknowledge in any given moment, by simply allowing or looking or turning attention on to 'BEING'. No money, no dogma involved. Totally agree.

However, the looking method/pointing/awareness watching awareness, I find is merely the tip of the iceberg with spirituality I feel. An incredibly helpful start for sure which can relieve a lot of fear, just like Eckhart Tolle has been for me, in the realization that 'I AM the present moment'. But, while realizing 'I AM', can be incredibly life changing as it has been for me, claiming other methods to be a distraction is missing the value in what other methods might bring I feel, if one chooses to use them in the manner they are meant to be used....as complements, which you also kind of touch on.

In my experience, while the fear of death is literally 100 percent gone for me, I absolutely still have emotional conditioning that arises from time to time and sometimes much more often than others and I am perfectly comfortable admitting that. I would bet to say that every single one of us (including the enlightened) still have on some level, emotional stuff to work through and on some level of fears in our life. Instead, it's learning to observe it as it arises through your everyday experience. I have crohns disease which causes a lot of anxiety in my life at times. Just knowing that I AM, cannot fully eradicate that. It's taken me a whole lot more of opening up to delve further into the energetic components of my BEING, and learning why I got sick in the first place, including the intimacy of my relationship with my higher selves, that has been more healing to me than any other method thus far, as a further method of healing myself emotionally and physically in furthering my spiritual development, which is not a distraction for me what-so-ever, but an incredibly powerful loving complement to my self realization. Understanding that everything starts and ends with energy is the key to it all.

I find that there is a fear often, in embracing certain spiritual practices (largely on this forum) that are considered outside of the 'spiritual atheistic' norm of 'practicality' and while practicality is incredibly helpful in certain instances, embracing a larger perspective, can also allow one to embrace other methods which we might be closed to, which can be very helpful/insightful in other aspects of our evolution, if we choose to allow ourselves willingly to embrace that. Yet, on the other hand, there is also a fear among others of simply 'looking' or going within, instead, thinking that utizling outside resources will guide us to 'salvation'.

It's not about one method over another as I see it. It's all about the context being used for any given spiritual practice/healing method and what we wish to attain from it. If we're looking to an energy healer as a source of spiritual awakening, then I'd say we are missing the point that spiritual realization comes through us, and within us, by delving in as opposed to utilizing outside methods. Of course, nothing can can be as simple as I AM which can only be accomplished by focusing inward and observing, thoughts, breath, and everything else in our experience, which leaves over the simple I AM, which is exactly what mindfulness is.
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Re: Awake pain body at the workplace

Postby Onceler » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:35 am

And I can't disagree with that :wink: . Sounds good to me. Of course we have emotional baggage, we're human and we'll always be human. I believe we really need to drop this enlightenment stuff and get on with living. Living the human life with all its unpredictable craziness is what we're here to do.

I worked all day at my house. I finished insulating my basement, then I cleaned my garage. At the end of the day I realized I had been so absorbed in my work; it was just challenging enough to be interesting with some problems to solve, and had not wished I were somewhere else or that the work would end or that I could get high or whatever. It was a good day of flow and absorption. There were problems and some unpleasantness, but for the most part it just flowed along. This is the way more of my days happen. I'm not blissed out or enlightened. I'm not deeply spiritual or having amazing insights. I'm just living with no thought or wish that I were somewhere else or someone else.

I have come to realize how much of my thinking has been magical thinking. The wish that things would somehow, magically be different. Like I would win the spiritual or psychological lottery and things would be transformed. I really, really don't think it works that way and I am now just coming to terms with life as it is. And it's enough.
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Re: Awake pain body at the workplace

Postby DavidB » Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:39 am

In my opinion the technique of observation is very usefull, but has also a downside because you're then (pre)occupied with the problem instead of just doing your things in everyday life.


Indeed. Being aware of being, is simply allowing everything in this moment to be as it is right now. This means 'everything', not just the things we happen to like, prefer, or judge as being desirable or beneficial. Allowing everything to be as it is, is true love.

My initial response to this thread was only to convey the message that the human mind is quite limited, only able to focus on one thing at a time. And because it is limited, focusing on the inner body when external tasks are demanding our full attention, can be exhausting and frustrating, and then this inner focus can become an obstacle. It can become inhibiting, as the focus is split between the inner and outer.

It is far more useful and far more practical to be focused on the task that is demanding attention, noticing though the emotions that may arise in this situation, allowing them to be there, without needing to do anything about them.

I suppose that consiously striving for inner peace can create an intern conflict when there exist unconsious negative thought and emotional patterns who are opposite oriented.


Striving for inner peace, is in itself counter productive. 'Striving' is a term which evokes ideas of forward momentum, working towards a future goal perceived as more desirable than this moment. Gaining something after a certain condition is met. Striving for inner peace will produce the opposite result, internal conflict with the present moment.

When we realize that we are not really doing anything, that everything is just happening on its own accord, that there is nobody striving for anything, we can start to let go of our supposed active participation, and then allow life to unfold as it always has and always will.

As for example, attempt to think of a solution, or an answer to a problem. What are you doing in this moment until the answer or solution appears in consciousness?

I expect that you were suddenly alert, aware of the space of emptiness in that moment, and waiting for an answer. Well that alert, aware space of emptiness, is what you always are, always have been. It's only when the intelligence arrives, seemingly from nowhere (now here) and provides an idea, answer or solution into consciousness, the mind becomes active and then claims ownership. This gives the illusion that we are actively living our lives, when in reality, all we are really doing (or not doing) is being aware that something is happening in this moment. In this regard, nothing, absolutely nothing, is ever personal. Nothing that ever happens is ever personal, in the same way that the signal received from an a radio wave, is not personal to the antenna or a television.

What arises out of the pain body is not personal in anyway, not a problem that needs to be solved, simply an aspect of our humanness that we can accept and be at peace with.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: Awake pain body at the workplace

Postby Zizitop » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:24 pm

I indeed believe that the best practice is to use conscious focus when the pain body and complementary egoic thoughts arise and try to drag you into a spiral of negative thinking (I assume that you already know which forms ego takes and what it tries to do). It is at these moments that you need to be grounded, using some techniques as described above. In an ideal situation, when having observed or felt a negative emotion or thought, focus should be shifted to more neutral or positive things. As you say, there is really no purpose in merely observing negativity for longer periods of time but to reinforce negative experiences in daily life.

Also awareness of being is then no longer necessary, because I believe that awareness of being is not a necessary condition of being. Instead, being absorbed in (external) activities and being ‘in the flow’ is in my opinion the hallmark of being. I even would like to add that we have to preserve ourselves not observing or feeling all the time, even when some egoic thoughts or defense mechanisms pop up. Thoughts pop up all the time, but don’t be busy with the question that you are these thoughts or not, just let it happen and don’t further think about it by putting attention elsewhere.

I believe that a (pre)occupation with or too much focus on the ego, pain body or who you really are is a bigger problem than not observing or believing most of your thoughts (at least when they’re not too negative). Being too busy with the problem and how to solve it is part of the problem. Who you truly are, like Eckhart says, can be found in the ‘silent space of stillness’ which is peaceful and calm. But I suggest that you don’t spend too much time in finding this feeling and that you do your spiritual practice at times when you feel you have to be grounded. I think, or rather feel  , that focus and attention on ego and pain body is only necessary when the thinking mind crosses a boundary and tries to drag you into a spiral of negative thinking.

However, when having a strong pain body, the pain body will try to inhibit or prevent that you focus at something else, at least in my case. It’s like the pain body then wants to get attention for a longer period of time (couple of hours) in order to evoke impatience, fatigue, frustration, negative experiences,… And in most of the cases it is so strong that it succeeds in it. You then try to focus on something else, but with every step the pain body interferes, for example by saying that you’re not good enough in what you do, that you can’t do it, that you better should do something else and so on, or by thinking how to solve the problem, …

So in this respect you could say that all this leaves us with a problem. But we do know that negative thoughts and emotions arise out from unconscious patterns. Therefore, I think that hypnosis or regression therapy or other techniques to talk into the unconscious, in relation with a good hypnotherapist, is a very good thing to do. The therapist can then suggest other ideas or thought patterns in the unconscious mind. This allows you then to be able to choose putting attention elsewhere, after having observed or felt the arisen pain body. Or, if you don’t very believe in free will, allowing some internal mechanisms to fulfill its functions of tension reduction, following the path that’s best for you. Changing the unconscious patterns can of course also without hypnosis, but then this process takes more time.
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Re: Awake pain body at the workplace

Postby Onceler » Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:51 pm

Sounds good, let us know how it works out.
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Re: Awake pain body at the workplace

Postby Zizitop » Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:22 am

I did the hypnotherapy a couple of weeks ago and there are a couple of things I learned:
At first, it is good to make a clear distinction between emotions and thoughts. Emotions are not necessary bad or meaningless. They have a function and are signals for you in order to change some behaviour or to adapt to a certain situation in which you don't feel good at this moment. In most cases these emotions apply to your relationship with persons who are important for you (parents, relatives and to a lesser extent best friends) and try to make clear what your human needs are. Whenever there is a disturbed relationship with close ones, an emotion might be a signal to do something appropriate and to learn from errors and mistakes in the past. Look at how the relationship can be approved in the present, not being trapped anymore in some pitfalls. The challenge is to be conscious of what these underlying emotions truly want to say to you. If you suppres them, they will continue to manifest themselves.
Secondly, most of the thougts that pop up are irrelevant. They suppres emotions or they are misconceptions of the signals that are sent by the emotion. In my case, the thought(patterns) can (could) be characterized as childlike or infantile. These thoughts are inappropriate strategies to feel some conectedness with a parent with wome a had a good relationship in the past (in my youth) but then the bond was cut-off afterwards. I now can look forward and try to re-establish a healthy and mature relationship in the present, being consciuous of some pitfalls I wasn't conscious of in the past.
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Re: Awake pain body at the workplace

Postby DavidB » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:07 am

I now can look forward and try to re-establish a healthy and mature relationship in the present, being consciuous of some pitfalls I wasn't conscious of in the past.


Conscious awareness is what it's about. Being conscious and aware of thoughts and emotions enable us to better develop beneficial behavior patterns, which can help improve relationships. :D
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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