Guilt and judgement

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51sth
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Guilt and judgement

Post by 51sth » Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:22 pm

Is guilt always a form of judgement? How could these two be related or not?

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DavidB
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Re: Guilt and judgement

Post by DavidB » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:31 am

Guilt is an emotion.

Judgment, or in this context, moral Judgment, is to differentiate or discriminate moral value.

There is nothing inherently wrong with judgement, differentiation nor discrimination, all healthy and necessary to navigating through daily experience.

The emotion of guilt however, is an unhealthy emotional reaction to a given situation, where one recognizes an infraction of a moral standard, which then usually leads to shame, embarrassment, self condemnation, self pity, self punishment, and even self immolation. All unnecessary and counterproductive uses of energies.

What most people are unaware of, is that moral value is closely associated with virtue. Virtue are those human characteristics which lead to excellence. Conversely, vice are those human characteristics which inhibit excellence. In the bible for example, vice is usually described as sin, and virtuous excellence are those characteristics which bring one closer to god or righteousness.

What differentiates most cultures from each other, are the different moral values, the virtues which are perceived as being morally excellent, and also those virtues which are neglected. In Islam for example, the virtues of honor and sacrifice are usually prized above all other virtue and are perceived as being the most excellent, bringing one closer to Allah. Usually however, this leads to blind faith, consequently neglecting or an under appreciation of both compassion and empathy.

Virtue rarely exists in isolation and usually needs to be accompanied by complimentary virtues, such as tolerance and integrity for example. If tolerance has no integrity, it will collapse and fail.

To understand the human character then, it is really vital to understand human virtue, how they relate to perceived moral value and consequently to culture in general. Discrimination for example, is a virtue that has in our modern culture at least, become perceived as being of little value, even reviled, where in reality, discrimination is a necessary characteristic needed to enable a healthy awareness of choices and benefits. Without judgement, we have no means of differentiation, no way to decide what is of value and what is not.

Here is a list of some of the virtues:

Acceptance
Accountability
Ambition
Assertiveness
Beauty
Benevolence
Bravery
Caring
Charity
Chastity
Caution
Cleanliness
Commitment
Compassion
Confidence
Consideration
Contentment
Cooperation
Courage
Courtesy
Creativity
Curiosity
Defiance
Dependability
Detachment
Determination
Devotion
Diligence
Discernment
Discretion
Discipline
Eloquence
Empathy
Enthusiasm
Excellence
Faith
Faithfulness
Flexibility
Focus
Forbearance
Forgiveness
Fortitude
Friendliness
Frugality
Generosity
Gentleness
Grace
Gratitude
Helpfulness
Honesty
Honor
Hope
Humbleness
Humility
Humor
Idealism
Integrity
Impartiality
Industry
Innocence
Joyfulness
Justice
Kindness
Knowledge
Liberality
Love
Loyalty
Magnanimity
Majesty
Meekness
Mercy
Moderation
Modesty
Obedience
Openness
Orderliness
Patience
Peace
Perseverance
Persistence
Piety
Prudence
Punctuality
Purity
Purposefulness
Reliability
Resoluteness
Resourcefulness
Respect
Responsibility
Restraint
Reverence
Righteousness
Selflessness
Self-sacrifice
Service
Sensitivity
Silence
Simplicity
Sincerity
Sobriety
Spontaneity
Steadfastness
Strength
Tact
Temperance
Thankfulness
Thrift
Tolerance
Toughness
Tranquility
Trust
Trustworthiness
Truthfulness
Understanding
Unity
Vitality
Wisdom
Wonder
Zeal
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Urch
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Re: Guilt and judgement

Post by Urch » Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:14 pm

David I feel so guilty about lying about something many years ago and I can't undo it. I feel so ashamed, I'm such a terrible and horrible person. And yet, I have never hurt anyone before and no one has hurt me. I feel if I tell my fiancee he will be so disappointed in me and might leave. Another part tells me he might not leave me. But I'm so scared. I was never guilty of this lie I told until recently. Why wasn't I guilty before? Why am I guilty now? And I'm only guilty as regarding him and not others I told the same thing. Sent you a mail too.

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Webwanderer
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Re: Guilt and judgement

Post by Webwanderer » Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:14 pm

Urch wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:14 pm
Why wasn't I guilty before? Why am I guilty now?
Here is something to consider. Our lives over the years are much about growth in consciousness and in spirit. The result of that growth is to become more inclusive in our awareness and perspective of the events of our lives. What we've done and said in the past that seemed like the best course at the time now takes on a different context. We see more clearly. We see more broadly.

So before, when we might rationalize things in a self serving way, we might have lied about or done things in life as believing it to be the best course (for whatever reasoning) at the time. Now, with more life experience, we are able to see the greater depths of our choices at the time. Now we may well make a different choice based on our greater vision and understanding. That is how growth manifests. But now is not then.

Generally speaking we always do the best we can with the perspectives we hold at the time of the events that challenge us. Now our challenges are not less, but simply different. Your choice now seems to be how to deal with the self imposed guilt and judgment over a past event. Consider, is it possible that in the years to come you will look upon the guilt you feel now with similar concern as to why you imposed this guilt as you currently do for your actions in the past?

Growth continues. Our challenges are opportunities to further that growth. Love is always paramount in the answers we seek. Love the person who made the choices in the past, and love the person who is faced with the challenges of the present. And always remember, love knows no judgment; only acceptance, inclusion and appreciation. Give yourself a break. You've always done the best you could with what you had to work with at the time.

WW

Urch
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Re: Guilt and judgement

Post by Urch » Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:55 am

How can one be like you guys in this forum? I have never come across any condemnation from anyone here to another. I thank you so very much web master. Blessings

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smiileyjen101
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Re: Guilt and judgement

Post by smiileyjen101 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:03 am

What a lovely reminder of gentle sharing. Thanks for bringing it back up Urch :)
Nice one Webby
Generally speaking we always do the best we can with the perspectives we hold at the time of the events that challenge us. Now our challenges are not less, but simply different.
It's an answer for so many questions and situations, understanding that all of our awareness, capacity, and willingness is forever in flux, and influenced by so many factors in the present moment/s.

All of the virtues DavidB listed can also be considered vices, depending on situational influences and participants in the moment/s, and it's always a negotiation between each other's expectations and realities.

... too generous (for me, in this moment/situation), too honest (for me, in this moment/situation, too cautious, too quiet, too enthusiastic ( we could go through the whole list)... So it also needs the awareness that it's not necessarily about 'you', but also just a noticed difference that may or may not require negotiation between you and others in a moment.

Ah the challenges of relating :?

Urch, maybe take a more generous approach with your unfolding of greater awareness of the natural consequences of decisions made in the past - not to punish, but to balance in the growth. In order to reconcile it, we usually need to understand the elements of it.

Sometimes people tell lies through fear, or to protect themselves or others from some sense of threat to self, r of not being 'enough' or to avoid consequences of other actions.

If you can identify the root cause/s - the honest reason / factors for telling that specific lie and address those things, then reconciling a) the factors and b) the consequences of it as a choice and then with that awareness and understanding remedy where needed and possible. This is how we all learn what we can.

The sense of guilt might be shame, that warm flush of embarrassment on recognising a mis-take, or indeed it might also be further feeding fear, as in the fear that he might leave, he might not...

Webby is right to remind about love being paramount. Love is the antidote to fear.
When we fall to fear we lose clear sight and balance between self and others.

Wishing you well with it.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

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Webwanderer
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Re: Guilt and judgement

Post by Webwanderer » Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:54 pm

Thanks Jen, and thanks Urch.
Urch wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:55 am
How can one be like you guys in this forum?
Just do your best to express the highest within you. Expressing your highest inspires more of the same in yourself and in others. Part of that expressing is to go easy on yourself and on those others. We all have plenty of baggage to work through.

The founders of this forum set the standard for quality dialog and interaction as based (primarily) in Tolle's teachings from the beginning. I came a bit after its founding but saw the same quality of discussion that you described. I do my best to maintain that standard as do all the Mods and most all of our members. We have been fortunate to have such a great community.

WW

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Re: Guilt and judgement

Post by Urch » Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:10 pm

Thank you Smiley and webmaster. I also noticed ever since I've been eaten with this guilt and condemnation of myself, I have been have acne and spots on my face especially my forehead. I usual have one or two during my monthly but this is different. I breakout so often on my forehead. It got me so scared.

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Webwanderer
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Re: Guilt and judgement

Post by Webwanderer » Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:20 pm

Remember, you are not your face no matter what it's look. Resistance/fear is focus of attention which only adds energy to the object of that attention. Focus on inner beauty - love, appreciation, inspiration, acceptance, inclusion, etc. The beauty in someone's eyes far surpasses all else and will stand the test of a lifetime.

WW

Urch
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Re: Guilt and judgement

Post by Urch » Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:41 pm

So much love in my heart to you.

Urch
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Re: Guilt and judgement

Post by Urch » Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:41 pm

So much love in my heart to you.

wsmcasey
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Re: Guilt and judgement

Post by wsmcasey » Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:11 pm

I've heard a saying before that goes something like this... not word for word, but pretty close.

"We carry our memories on our backs like a bag of crap. Sometime we sit the bag down and open it up to take something out. Then we wonder why our life stinks."


I think it's important to forgive yourself for the mistakes of the past. We all make mistakes and that is how we have the opportunity for the most growth. If you have feelings of guilt then it's because your thought and/or actions were not in alignment with your source energy.

I wish you the best.
Relax and let life happen.

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Webwanderer
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Re: Guilt and judgement

Post by Webwanderer » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:31 pm

Welcome to the forum. I like your post.
And the metaphor is a beauty.

WW

wsmcasey
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Re: Guilt and judgement

Post by wsmcasey » Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:28 am

Thanks! Glad to be here. :D
Relax and let life happen.

Urch
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Re: Guilt and judgement

Post by Urch » Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:26 pm

Thanks so much Casey

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