Self talk and identification with mind

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Self talk and identification with mind

Post by Mentos94 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:31 pm

I have a question about identified with mind and being myself.
For example when I wonder which day today is and I say loudly it s monday and it feels from the heart that means that I am speaking? When I would think in my head that would mean I identified with mind? and each useless thinking in the head is identified with mind? I am sometimes afraid of saying something loudly because my mind is telling that it's not me. And it really can make trouble in me. So maybe better if I want to know something for myself is to think loudly instead of being thought in the mind?

Patrick :)

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Re: Self talk and identification with mind

Post by kiki » Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:17 pm

I am having some trouble understanding what you are asking. So let's start with some basics. Being identified with mind means that attention is so fixated on thought-stream that one's presence is completely overlooked. Presence is your very nature; it is silent, still, peaceful, and ever present. It's even present when thoughts arise; if not for presence being aware of thoughts couldn't happen.

Thought, on the other hand, is constantly changing; it is the "noise in the head" that seems never to end. One thought links into another thought creating an endless chain of them. Attention becomes fixated on thought-stream. Sometimes successive thoughts are related to each other, and sometimes something completely random and unexpected arises. From that noise one creates an identity, a "me" that is sustained by investing a belief in that identity.

Awakening is when the fixation on thought-stream collapses and presence is noticed. By consciously returning to presence over and over the mind created "me" entity becomes undermined. It is seen as a fiction more and more clearly until it loses its ability to distract you from presence. You then abide more and more in/as presence; you see you are that. You feel/notice presence in the midst of all activity, including the arising of thoughts.

So, thoughts will continue to arise but they lose their ability to draw you away from presence. That still can happen, but for shorter and shorter periods of time as you become more and more alert to what's happening. You are no longer fooled into believing everything they are telling you.

Now, some thoughts are utilitarian; they have their use in our day to day lives. They help us negotiate daily activities, but when they've done their job they drop away of their own accord. In fact, they spontaneously become more and more subtle, more quiet, until you hardly even notice them.

Most thoughts are just random arisings that occur from the sheer momentum of mind; they have little to do with what's actually unfolding in the moment. They may be musings about past events or future imaginings, but in neither case are they required to meet THIS moment. It is this moment where life exists, where presence is felt/experienced/realized. Right here, right now, is all there ever is.

Even climbing aboard and taking a ride on a train of thought happens now, but when that thought train derails one's felt sense of presence then you've slipped back into mind identification. Don't misunderstand me; that presence is still here, but it is being overlooked in favor of the story the mind is currently experiencing. When the story recreates what is believed to be reality then you've seemingly become lost again (but not lost in actuality).

Trying to manipulate thoughts in some way is the same as investing a belief in the mentally created "me" entity. That me wants things to be a certain way. It believes if it gets its way then something good will happen, like "enlightenment" for example. If it can "do the right thing" and avoid the "wrong" thing then it will be happy. This kind of belief is one of the strategies of ego/me to keep itself going. All of that is part of the "story of me", but it's only a story, a story spinning itself out as thoughts in the head that are believed.

See/feel/experience what's beneath the story - the witnessing consciousness/awareness. Observe how the me recreates itself and the story it tells. What is the nature of this "observing"? Which is real and always present and which is fleeting, the constantly changing story or the observing presence of You?

So, banish any notion of trying to think "loudly" or any other strategy to manipulate yourself into presence. Simply see what's true and what's not in any given moment. You are presence itself, and everything else is just arising within You.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd

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Re: Self talk and identification with mind

Post by Mentos94 » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:47 pm

Thanks kiki for this clear post! I would have to ask about something because my stream of thoughts is still very heavy and really can make me trouble, after analysing it s much heavier. When thoughts attacks me then its so motivation to be now just observing and relaxing but even this is very difficult because my head starts exploding.

I am bit frustrated because this still creates me confusion and i am not alignment with life, I am so weak and ruined a bit myself but it s no matter I want to just live normally hmmm but some questions...

I don't want to make concept ego, I drop it because after this my mind is attacking me thoughts like ; Is it me or ego? Do I behave like that? Am I myself? etc etc.
I would like to focus only on thoughts and identification with thoughts. Earlier I practiced meditation and being in the now and it gave me good results because by two weeks I was feeling normally not analysing, but then some questions came to my head...I have read too many about ego and too much stuff that made me chaos in my head..I am really determine to do everything in order to live normally, so after this came to my head questions maybe this is not me? I was identified to some music, so when i was choosing any music there were a lot of questions ike why I like this music? Is it from past? Maybe this is mental emotional energy in my head, not something that I am enjoying? and at the end questions like when i can use my mind? Can I use imagination when this thoughts are mainly imaginations? And these all thoughts i could analyse and aalyze and analyse and now I know that I don t know nothing and fear and tension is still in me...really I feel like if I was 60...I have this anxiety from two years and really complicated my life..I was so identified with thoughts, I was thinking so much but now I accept everything but I don't want to make questions anymore, just live and it seems so close and so far. Ok, let s move on

There are thoughts from outside that arising in my mind - repetitive thoughts, thoughts from past, a lot of thoughts as questions that ruin my balance..
and these are only thoughts, I am not interested in them at all. No interest, its rubbish etc. etc. but lets move on

True myself is above mind. Every thought from outside is not mine.
and what I wold like to know thinking about not thinking is thinking that is to say it creates the thinker, yes? So the thinker is identification with mind also, yes?
and you know when i am doing something, on computer and whatever there are thoughts that I hear just thoughts like where is it, Ohh I have to do this or that and other but there are repetitive thoughts but also sometimes I as myself give fuel this because i often slightly touch my mind and causing these the practice is to be aware of self talk or just observe thoughts and don't interest them because these are only thoughts?
I am awareness so thinking about something is creating the thinker isn it? and not being present. so rise above thought means not to be thinker but just awareness and I can be relaxed and observe that things happen thats it and now let s focus on it..

Awareness/being/ stillness this is what I have to discover and come back often because I am trapped in heavy analysing. As awareness when I need to think I think when i don't need to I don't use think :) when I need to analyse something or do I do and to be alignment with life is just to be presence but my mind doesn't want to calm and thoughts like this arise What if you would like to say something or think about something? Can't you?
And sometimes I am the thinker or sometimes I am speaking to myself explaining this or that. That really takes energy.

What I can add that I really have no problems. No problems with money, with friends, studies, passions, people, etc. My ONE problem is "my-self"
If I get out of it and really will be living one month without question I would feel ehhh dreams...I accepted these all but really it takes me almost all vital life with joy :/ What I am going to do is to completely detox from mind, meditation, I love walking in the nature no computers and television by one month just drawing sports, friends, work thats what I love, but I still have questions in my head that are stopping me so often...


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