You Will Find Trouble

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You Will Find Trouble

Postby a_friend » Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:36 pm

I had this excellent (in my humble opinion) response to the "Dear Eckhart" thread and I kinda killed the browser before submitting it. Anyway, the same thread is long enough now and this subject is sufficiently different enough that I think it kinda warrants its own thread, so here goes.

Is there a price to pay for accessing the Now? Is it troubling to be fully present? Or could we say that if it hurts, then we are going "the wrong direction"? Like barb was saying in her initial question to eckhart, she was afraid of dropping all the "busy-ness" of her life situation only to find that underneath she was very sad or depressed. I don't think that would be the final outcome, but I think there may be some truth and validity to this question. Here's a related quote from the (apocryphal) Gospel of Thomas:

Jesus said: He who seeks, let him not cease seeking until he finds; and when he finds he will be troubled, and when he is troubled he will be amazed, and he will reign over the All.
Last edited by a_friend on Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Triple T » Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:54 am

Hi Friend. :)

My short experience with this process is that in being with the now, I am allowing negative feelings to be there, as ECM stated in his recent introduction (Hi! ECM) :)
My history is that when 'negative' or 'bad' or 'unwanted' feelings appear I either immediately suppress or deny them or go waaaaay out of the body.
What has been happening lately is that I have been doing that less, (but still do...the momentum thing, you know) and am feeling these sensations in my body - the uncomfortableness, the fear, anxiety,dread, whatever form they take. That is NOT my history and for me to allow them, and to recognize the pain-body is a big step.
So to answer your question, for me, yes there is a price of experiencing pain to be in the now - but I am trusting that it is a healthy bringing to the light of things I have buried for a long time.

I am trusting , as Rumi says to

Keep knocking, and the joy inside will eventually open a window and look out to see who's there.
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Postby summer » Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:46 am

Great answer Triple T.
I have been pondering our friends question throughout the day and would have to agree that waking up is not always easy.

We may read an inspiring book and say YES. And if that was all it takes then everyone could be enlightened just by reading a book. Or, better yet, sitting in the presence of a master.

And yet for most of us, our moments when we are being unconscious are still painful. In some ways, even more so, because now we are aware of the anxieties and the restlessness. This habitual pattern of not being at ease in the present moment and always rushing to the future.

I think that Barbara's question is very important. She may very well be building a successful business, on a foundation that is a fear of failure.
It would seem that each and everyone of us have to face our greatest fears, and hope that we come through the other side.

A teacher like Eckhart gives us this hope. He is living proof that there is a freedom beyond our comforts and security. But it sure ain't easy giving up this illusion that I am in control :)
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Postby Clare » Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:20 am

I liked Triple T's answer too.

I don't have much to add except that yes, I too had 'pain' for want of a better when I started this practice. I think I have spoken of it before, so briefly, I found for every hour or so spent in complete presence, a huge pain body would arise in me that would take me over and last for days. I didn't know how yet to observe it.

I wish I could say that I got through it by observing and transforming, but I didnt, what I did was stopped being so intense about presence. If I drifted off for a while, even a long while, it was okay. I also honoured my mind's need to vent itself sometimes and just let it do it, knowing thatis what it was doing, all the time reminding myself to sometimes just look at the clouds moving in the sky, listen to the bird singing, feel the air on my skin.

My Osho Zen tarot this morning was 'control', and it said many things, but one thing that may be relevant to this discussion is it said at the end, "There is a lot more to life than being on top of things."

I forget that sometimes.
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Postby Triple T » Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:19 pm

summer wrote:And yet for most of us, our moments when we are being unconscious are still painful. In some ways, even more so, because now we are aware of the anxieties and the restlessness. This habitual pattern of not being at ease in the present moment and always rushing to the future.
:)


Thanks Summer!

Yes! and then the old ego-voice playing on a scratched up LP gets the needle stuck on "this isn't working, you're doing something wrong..."
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Postby Triple T » Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:22 pm

Clare wrote:

all the time reminding myself to sometimes just look at the clouds moving in the sky, listen to the bird singing, feel the air on my skin.

My Osho Zen tarot this morning was 'control', and it said many things, but one thing that may be relevant to this discussion is it said at the end, "There is a lot more to life than being on top of things."

I forget that sometimes.


Thanks Clare.
God that sure takes a lot of pressure off! :D
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Postby barbarasher » Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:13 pm

It is all so wonderful to be the presence of all of you and to be involved in these discussions. Thank you all!

Right! a-friend said, "the fear of dropping all the "busy-ness".

Just Like Eckhart says, I am continually looking for more things to add to myself and to improve myself and have a habit of setting goal after goal.

I achieve them, and then like when he said you buy the BMW (I didn't), the craving is only satisfied for a short while and then the mind starts again and starts seeking something else.

There is never any peace in this manner, never any resting in the now. I am always looking for a future to make me more or give me more and only the future can give me that more. A never ending striving towards the future.

The following is an example of this never ending striving, even when goals are reached. This is so terrible since it means I will never be satisfied, since once a goal is reached, I immediately find another.


OK, leave it to me to have a very ordinary (banal) example, but here goes:

My Weight

So, I'm 46 and was slightly over weight (in the words of the sports doctor 3kg). OK, still looking good, still very healthy. Have had the 3 kg since my younger daughter was born (she is 10 and a half years, yes "years" old).

But I strived and strived and obsessively wrote down my weight every day for the last few years. No real movement up or down.

Lately with all my mind over matter attentions, I managed to stop making food a big priority. Just so you know (my parents are both very heavy and food is one of the most important things to them (you can't believe how it is so much a part of their life).

Ok, so I set a goal of 72kg, and got there. So I was happy for a very short moment and then said to myself "so if 72 then why not 71.5?", then same story 71 and same story 70.5 and same for 70. I go on and on writing about this to show the stupidity and the endlessness of it. Never happy no matter what. Nothing is enough, always striving for a future that can never come, because I always move the goal to something else.

I want to stop the striving, in all areas. I can declare the fact that I have "made it" (no matter what anyone'sdefinition is) and rest in the now, no seeking a future. No more goals of this kind.

I gave weight as a simple example. There are others.
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Postby summer » Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:00 pm

It is comforting to remember that we are all in the same boat :)
And it doesn't give the ego mind an excuse to take it so personally. Now when he hear a thought like "Am I the only one who can't be present in the Now all the time?" or "What is the matter with me? No matter what I do it is never enough" we an say "Aha, I remember hearing that thought before." and just let it go.
"The story" really is like a scratchy worn out record. I didn't like it the first time I heard it, so why do I keep playing it again and again in my mind? :lol: The human condition is a little wacko, I'd say.
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Postby a_friend » Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:16 pm

Thank you, barbara, this is such an excellent example. Its excellent because weight loss is a pursuit that soooo many people can relate to. And its also excellent because it shows us how easy it is to satisfy some demand of the ego only to be met with a greater demand moments later.

These demands (or impulses or attachments or whatever you want to call them) are not being made by the real you, they are being made by the ego. The hilarious thing is that they can be seen as a great ally. If you make an enemy out of the ego or out of its demands, you will have unwittingly created a new ego or (more accurately) a new source of energy to fuel the ego. So, instead of fighting these impulses, or denying yourself them, or anything like that, choose to watch the demands with keen interest and loving compassion. See if you locate their origin. If you end up responding to the demands, watch how you go about doing so. And then watch what happens when the demands are met. And if you do not respond to the demands, watch how your ego reacts to this. Here's where you may find the "trouble" I was referring to in the title. Whatever you do, do with love and gentleness -- there is no need to judge yourself (or anyone for that matter). Make peace with these demands, and you might actually find they help you to discover who you really are much faster than if you had somehow destroyed them. And if you slip up and forget to watch or start identifying with the ego and its demands, thats ok too -- we'll still love you just the same because we've all been there and might still be there a while longer.

Now, if only I could take some of my own advice ;)

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Postby heidi » Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:01 am

You guys are really onto something here. Self-improvement. Just being more present all the time is paradoxically that,t oo... It's so good for us, this moving toward betterment, and so ego based sometimes. Barbara, I have my own stories just like yours, always striving for perfection. Whose perfection? Lately I've been easier on myself; but stilll striving in one way or another :)
Thanks so much for all of your openess - now, that's perfection!
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Postby summer » Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:33 am

One of my dearest friends is my dog. She is a Yellow Labrador and her name is Lehla. We spend a lot of our time together. Going for walks, eating, sleeping, and just hanging out.
She probably knows me better than anyone else when it comes to being truly myself. And her love is so unconditionally pure, that she helps me connect with the love that our Spirit feels for each and everyone of us.

Call it Presence, call it Awareness, call it Love.
We are all embraced with so much love when we surrender and pay attention to this silent energy.
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